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#238472 - 07/16/08 09:05 AM Forgiveness Crap - May Be Triggering
LW1527 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/14/08
Posts: 408
Loc: Salt Lake City Ut
I live with enough shame and guilt. Don't tell me to forgive my dad. Don't tell me to forgive anyone. I hate this sort of spiritual guilt that I lived with all my life. Yeah, my parents belived in God. My sister really pushed God down my throat along with all the guilt and shame that goes with it. Believe in God and he will take away all of the pain and shit. Like hell he will. I guess I should have turned the other cheek when dad was beating on me so he could get both sides, right? I guess I should just rollover and forgive when he was getting his kicks in my bed. I hate him and I won't forgive him. I hate them all for what they did and didn't do and you're right, I don't and won't forgive them.

- Lance



Edited by LW1527 (07/16/08 10:31 AM)

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#238479 - 07/16/08 10:04 AM Re: Forgiveness Crap [Re: LW1527]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
LW,

You're entitled to your anger, but can I ask a favor? Can you put a trigger warning on this thread?

The topics of revenge and forgiveness are highly triggering to a lot of members on this site, myself included.

I forgave my mother because it makes it easier to live my life without holding all of the anger. I will never, ever forget, though.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

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#238485 - 07/16/08 10:21 AM Re: Forgiveness Crap [Re: BJK]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6401
Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
Lance,

IMO: You are not compelled to forgive anyone for anything. I am a Christian and do not forgive my perps for what they did. I WILL however forgive them one at a time IF THEY COME TO ME AND ASK FOR IT. As far as I'm concerned, they don't get any forgiveness from me till they ask (on their knees BTW). They can ask Jesus for forgiveness if they wish.

I use to fantasize about making 3 of them beg for their lives or limbs. Now I pay them little attention. I don't honestly believe I'll ever see or hear from them again anyway.

Bryan is right though. You ARE entitled to your anger.


_________________________
Wishing You Were Here!

The Aftermath Video

The Water Buffalo Song

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#238486 - 07/16/08 10:29 AM Re: Forgiveness Crap [Re: Still]
LW1527 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/14/08
Posts: 408
Loc: Salt Lake City Ut
I don't know what you mean about a trigger warning. I'll see what I can do. I can't see how this is triggering. Maybe I'm blind here.


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#238487 - 07/16/08 10:32 AM Re: Forgiveness Crap [Re: Still]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
I recommend that people attempt to forgive those who wrong them. My life has gotten much, much easier since I let go.

But Rob is right. You are not compelled to forgive. You're in control now.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

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#238488 - 07/16/08 10:34 AM Re: Forgiveness Crap [Re: LW1527]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
Originally Posted By: LW1527
I don't know what you mean about a trigger warning. I'll see what I can do. I can't see how this is triggering. Maybe I'm blind here.


That's perfect, LW. Thank you.

My point is that when people say how they can never forgive someone, it reminds me of my mother....and it hurts. I'm not saying you are anything like my mother. That's just one particular trait of her conditional love that I'm still fighting to get over. She never forgave anyone for anything.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

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#238489 - 07/16/08 10:41 AM Re: Forgiveness Crap [Re: BJK]
AndyJB2005 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 1242
Loc: Saint Paul, Minnesota
One can only forgive on their schedule, it's true. \:\)

I know for me, I can never forget what my dad did, but I had to forgive -- let go at least, like Bryan said -- because the hate, anger and resentment was killing me from the inside.

What I thought I was doing to pay my dad back was actually hurting me more than him. He never came crawling back on his hands and knees with apologies. He never felt anything from my anger other than selfish self-pity. "Oh, I'm so sad, my own son hates me."

The only thing hate and anger ever got me was failing grades in school, several addictions, a low paying job, living paycheck to paycheck, a lack of social skills, and a lot of depression -- and not surprisingly, a lot of anger inside me.

"Before you can throw any cow-dung at another, you must first dirty yourself with cow-dung."

_________________________
Life's disappointments are harder to take when you don't know any swear words. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)

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#238490 - 07/16/08 10:43 AM Re: Forgiveness Crap [Re: LW1527]
hogan_dawg Offline
Guest

Registered: 03/26/08
Posts: 492
Forgiveness?

I don't forgive my Father. I am not there yet.

The way I figure it, forgiveness is an ideal state of being, that we're told Christ achieved, and is perfect.

I make no pretenses towards perfection.

Think of the perpetrator as an animal. Like a cockroach or a tick or a flea. Once you understand him as an animal, things might become a little more comprehensible. It's hard to hold a grudge towards an animal for being an animal. But I admit it's a feeble attempt to get a hold on this thing and forgive, but it's a start.

----------------------------------

God's Forsaking Us?

Regarding God there's an oft quoted line in the King James Bible that says "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?" and Christ says this in Matthew as he's on his way to his death.

The quote is typically given untranslated, and the original text appears thus - I believe it's the only untranslated piece in the King James because it is problemmatic between Hebrew and Greek meanings:

Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?

Most translate this to mean "Why has thou forsaken me?". The implication is that God is imperfect for 'forsaking' his only Son. And the Son imperfect because he questions a God that forsook him.

Yet there is another interpretation "For this I was kept?" meaning "Walking down the road with this cross, towards my death, my fate, is my purpose? This is why I'm here?" The quote, if true, would represent Christ realizing that his death on the cross is part of God's divine purpose for him.

I prefer the latter though the latter is purely a speculative interpretation. I take it that although my life sucks, it is what it is, I can't change it, and there is purpose to it. Maybe I have to make this purpose, and become purposeful. And maybe that's what God has in mind for me.

I don't know God's intention. I just know that whatever I'm dealt here I'm going to do some good.



Edited by hogan_dawg (07/16/08 10:57 AM)
_________________________
I can say unequivocally that the lie of "To truly heal you must first forgive" has derailed more victims than the abusers themselves.
Andrew Vachs, 2003

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#238491 - 07/16/08 10:45 AM Re: Forgiveness Crap [Re: AndyJB2005]
LW1527 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/14/08
Posts: 408
Loc: Salt Lake City Ut
BUT THEY MADE ME A FREAK! I HATE THIS!!!!!


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#238492 - 07/16/08 10:51 AM Re: Forgiveness Crap [Re: LW1527]
hogan_dawg Offline
Guest

Registered: 03/26/08
Posts: 492
Yeah they messed you up. But you can't make the world spin backwards and undo it all. So you're stuck with it.

LW one thing you do have coming out of all of this is now you have a unique take on the world. You have a history that is full of tragedy and you're making some triumphs out of that tragedy. That growth gives you a very unique perspective. I encourage you to find and construct that new perspective.

You're already replying to people here and helping others. That's a wonderful start. You're a decent man with a good heart who didn't turn into an abuser. Remember that please.



Edited by hogan_dawg (07/16/08 10:53 AM)
_________________________
I can say unequivocally that the lie of "To truly heal you must first forgive" has derailed more victims than the abusers themselves.
Andrew Vachs, 2003

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