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#237890 - 07/13/08 03:12 PM Resource Guides?
Still Offline
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Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6400
Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
I was thinking (ya,i know...uh-oh). Since we have a variety of faiths and belief systems represented here at MS, how about if we halt attacking, halt defending and halt marginalizing any other's religions or lack of religions and begin representing beliefs only when asked?

For example, I'm giving up on trying to explain where people are wrong about an element of Christianity, but if someone wants to know how MY particular flavor of Christianity treats a topic ASK ME....otherwise, I'M NOT GONNA OFFER \:\)

I've learned SO MUCH about Buddhism here at MS, I cant even begin to list it all. I find the wisdom found within Buddhism to be profoundly relevant to every-day life and CSA issues in particular. I embrace it!... and I don't want that aspect of learning and support to be limited in any holy war here.

I'd hope that I could float a question about "how does an atheist see issue X?" Do realize, I may be asking that not to challenge, but because I want to understand why/how my friend Skip thinks about X.

And if you donít wanna know what a Christian belief is on topic X, don't ask....we wont tell.

I dunno...just a thought *shrug*



Edited by Robbie Brown (07/13/08 05:00 PM)
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#237895 - 07/13/08 03:18 PM Re: Resource Guides? [Re: Still]
Still Offline
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Posts: 6400
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Maybe Spirituality and Religion is too devisive to even be a named-forum? Maybe it should go? I'm sure the BOD has considered that.

_________________________
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The Aftermath Video

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#237896 - 07/13/08 03:25 PM Re: Resource Guides? [Re: Still]
hogan_dawg Offline
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Registered: 03/26/08
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Deleted by ModTeam



Edited by ModTeam (07/13/08 03:38 PM)
_________________________
I can say unequivocally that the lie of "To truly heal you must first forgive" has derailed more victims than the abusers themselves.
Andrew Vachs, 2003

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#237898 - 07/13/08 03:33 PM Re: Resource Guides? [Re: hogan_dawg]
BJK Offline
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Registered: 08/02/07
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Deleted by ModTeam



Edited by ModTeam (07/13/08 03:37 PM)
_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

Top
#237899 - 07/13/08 03:35 PM Re: Resource Guides? [Re: hogan_dawg]
testingWaters Offline
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Registered: 07/19/06
Posts: 508
Edited by ModTeam


Rob, I think your original post is wise and I say hear hear.



Edited by ModTeam (07/13/08 03:39 PM)

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#237901 - 07/13/08 03:36 PM Re: Resource Guides? [Re: hogan_dawg]
Still Offline
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Muslims have the same problem these days Hogan Dawg. There are Muslims whom are peace-loving and spiritual folks who would not hurt a fly. Then there's that minority that want to decapitate and explode anything that does not agree with them.

I look at the Muslim situation in order to try to understand where some of our MS bros are coming from. I lost someone VERY close to me in 9-11. I was ready to go to war against Islam. I use to believe "the only good Muslim is a ______"...you know... I use to judge ALL of Islam as fkd-up by its very nature. Sound familiar?

It took me YEARS to believe otherwise. I had to dig-into their faith to get enough understanding to realize that they are varied as the folks under the broad label of "Christian."


EDIT:

AND PLEASE....guys...I'm NOT saying that anyone here is not open-minded and has NOT LEARNED about Christianity.. MANY HERE WERE RAISED IN IT. I'm TRULY only saying what I had to do with Islam to get past my mis-understanding



Edited by Robbie Brown (07/13/08 03:51 PM)
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#237903 - 07/13/08 03:39 PM Re: Resource Guides? [Re: Still]
ModTeam Offline
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This is a place of healing. Keep your posts in that vein or this thread too will be pulled.

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Private messages sent to this account are checked irregularly due to personnel and time constraints. Please send messages to one of the moderators for the forum that is concerned by user name, or if there is no named moderator, send a PM to any moderator.

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#237904 - 07/13/08 03:40 PM Re: Resource Guides? [Re: Still]
hogan_dawg Offline
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I'm laughing because you said I offended your spiritual beliefs when you told me in a previous thread that your practice was secular.

I didn't know that you had spiritual beliefs in your secular practice.

I laughed because I can't make sense of it.

It's like saying I insult your Ferrari just after you tell me you don't own a Ferrari.

I also assumed you were egoless about your beliefs because you said that was a good thing. I just assumed the best in you. So I assumed you could wrap your head around my post in a positive way. That's a compliment for goodness sake.




Edited by hogan_dawg (07/13/08 03:44 PM)
_________________________
I can say unequivocally that the lie of "To truly heal you must first forgive" has derailed more victims than the abusers themselves.
Andrew Vachs, 2003

Top
#237905 - 07/13/08 03:42 PM Re: Resource Guides? [Re: hogan_dawg]
Dewey2k Offline
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Registered: 08/22/05
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Christians and Atheists have each marginalized the other's beliefs both directly and by insinuation. Anything that could be perceived as an attack would be against the guidelines. To avoid this, I recommend writing about your own experiences with your faith and how it has helped you, and not to mention any other poster here in connection with that.

It would be acceptable to mention another person's experience in your post or reply to a thread if they say something that resonates with you in a positive way. It would not be acceptable to take something someone else has said and argue that their beliefs are false or that they are wrong.

I think that the best way for this forum to work is this:

If you disagree with another person's beliefs, then don't post in threads they start.
Secondly, don't post things that will inflame others and incite argument. Sweeping statements of morality are a good example of what is NOT acceptable.

You are all adults. You know what will start arguments with others on the site. Don't do it. If you can't say something nice (positive), then don't say it at all.


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#237907 - 07/13/08 03:45 PM Re: Resource Guides? [Re: hogan_dawg]
AndyJB2005 Offline
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The only time I've seen unfairness in this forum is when divisive topics are brought up without regard to others' triggers....

No matter who posts it (not singling anyone out here).

*shrug*

_________________________
Life's disappointments are harder to take when you don't know any swear words. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)

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#237908 - 07/13/08 03:47 PM Re: Resource Guides? [Re: Dewey2k]
BJK Offline
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I'm sorry, but when I see a post that reeks of spiritual abuse, I can't keep quiet.

My vote is to completely eliminate the Spirituality Forum.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

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#237909 - 07/13/08 03:49 PM Re: Resource Guides? [Re: Dewey2k]
Still Offline
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I never saw the modified relpies above, but I'm guessing maybe this forum is better-off dumped all together. I know I only speak for myself, but I'd rather have ALL of these guys as brothers in healing CSA effects than at each others throats over religion.

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#237910 - 07/13/08 03:50 PM Re: Resource Guides? [Re: BJK]
testingWaters Offline
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My vote is very strongly to keep the forum. We need to learn to talk about these differences because they come up very, very often.


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#237911 - 07/13/08 03:52 PM Re: Resource Guides? [Re: testingWaters]
Dewey2k Offline
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The issue is that discussion and debate too often devolves into a pissing match between beliefs. People have no tolerance and don't think about how what they're saying will be perceived... or they just don't care.



Edited by Dewey2k (07/13/08 03:52 PM)

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#237912 - 07/13/08 03:52 PM Re: Resource Guides? [Re: BJK]
hogan_dawg Offline
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And if I see intolerance of:

- any groups typically protected by progressive human rights laws

I will point out the error in thinking. Male, female, gay, straight, Christian, Muslim, Jewish anyone protected under these pieces of legislation.

Dawg

_________________________
I can say unequivocally that the lie of "To truly heal you must first forgive" has derailed more victims than the abusers themselves.
Andrew Vachs, 2003

Top
#237914 - 07/13/08 03:55 PM Re: Resource Guides? [Re: hogan_dawg]
hogan_dawg Offline
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BTW there are external agencies who monitor sites for activity that marginalizes particular protected groups, and they have clout too. I submit that their stamp of approval is vital to the reputation of MS and I plead for protection of these groups at every opportunity.

_________________________
I can say unequivocally that the lie of "To truly heal you must first forgive" has derailed more victims than the abusers themselves.
Andrew Vachs, 2003

Top
#237915 - 07/13/08 03:55 PM Re: Resource Guides? [Re: hogan_dawg]
testingWaters Offline
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This is very very sad


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#237916 - 07/13/08 03:56 PM Re: Resource Guides? [Re: hogan_dawg]
Dewey2k Offline
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As long as doing so does not put you in violation of the discussion board guidelines, you are free to do so, as is everyone else.


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#237918 - 07/13/08 04:00 PM Re: Resource Guides? [Re: Dewey2k]
Dewey2k Offline
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Hogan,

ALL the groups you mentioned above deserve protection, and I hope that all members keep that in mind when they post.


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#237920 - 07/13/08 04:01 PM Re: Resource Guides? [Re: BJK]
Still Offline
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Originally Posted By: BJK
I'm sorry, but when I see a post that reeks of spiritual abuse, I can't keep quiet.

My vote is to completely eliminate the Spirituality Forum.

Bryan


I sincerely hope i did not write anything that falls under spiritual abuse. Back to the root of the thread; I was just hoping we could rely on each other's beliefs/positions for perspective.

For example: I have a frnd who is dieing of Cancer (soon) and is an abuse survivor. He believes that anyone with adequate "good works" and is "a good person" will go to heaven. I KNOW two Christian sect's positions on this. I have NO idea what (still) what Buddhism thinks comes after death and what determines the results. He leans toward Buddhism but wants to explore the faith he rejected as a kid.

However, I now feel like ANY entry/post in this forum is like smoking around an open pool of gasoline.

_________________________
Wishing You Were Here!

The Aftermath Video

The Water Buffalo Song

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#237921 - 07/13/08 04:03 PM Re: Resource Guides? [Re: Dewey2k]
AndyJB2005 Offline
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I'm against the closing of this forum...there's good uses for it yet... \:\)

_________________________
Life's disappointments are harder to take when you don't know any swear words. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)

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#237923 - 07/13/08 04:05 PM Re: Resource Guides? [Re: AndyJB2005]
Dewey2k Offline
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Again, discussion of faith is good, but using that discussion to marginalize another person's beliefs is not.

And for what it's worth, Rob, I'm interested in hearing the Buddhist perspective as well.



Edited by Dewey2k (07/13/08 04:05 PM)

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#237926 - 07/13/08 04:16 PM Re: Resource Guides? [Re: Still]
AndyJB2005 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Robbie Brown
I have NO idea what (still) what Buddhism thinks comes after death and what determines the results.


Like any faith, there's differences between sects in Buddhism...but the general belief is that there is no afterlife until you reach enlightenment. You are continually reincarnated until you reach enlightenment, then you are in Nirvana, or the end of suffering, on Earth.

The answer to life after death is not clear, due in large part to the Buddha's aversion to metaphysics and speculation. When he was asked such questions, he merely replied that it was "incomprehensible, indescribable, inconceivable, unutterable."

I guess us Buddhists live in the present and don't really think about what "might be" a lot. *shrug* \:\)

But if I were asked, I'd say personally, I don't know if I believe in the reincarnation cycle. I believe we can be reincarnated, but I believe that it is a choice we make or a choice we choose not to make...and that the afterlife is pure love ...nothing but...

I don't believe in Hell or Heaven, I believe the only Hell after death is seeing the mistakes you've make, the hurt you've caused others and yourself, and how much you missed, etc etc and regretting that, and not being able to go back. I think regret could be worse than flames....

Peace and Love. \:\)

_________________________
Life's disappointments are harder to take when you don't know any swear words. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)

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#237927 - 07/13/08 04:20 PM Re: Resource Guides? [Re: AndyJB2005]
AndyJB2005 Offline
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Registered: 11/14/06
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I think we learn from everything we see after death though, regrets or not....it's not about punishment, it's just how the universe works...


_________________________
Life's disappointments are harder to take when you don't know any swear words. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)

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#237928 - 07/13/08 04:29 PM Re: Resource Guides? [Re: AndyJB2005]
MarkK Offline
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Registered: 04/02/07
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if there's anything after death to see...

_________________________
the story
††† https://1in6.org/men/bristlecone/mark-krueger/

Kirkridge - October 2008
Alta - September 2012
Alta - September 2013

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#237929 - 07/13/08 04:36 PM Re: Resource Guides? [Re: AndyJB2005]
AndyJB2005 Offline
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Oh I forgot to mention Karma...it is what determines if you are reborn or not.

Karma has commonly been considered a punishment for past bad actions, but karma is neither judge nor jury. Rather, it is simply the universal law of cause and effect that says every thought, word and act carries energy into the world and affects our present reality. Karma can also refer to the "work" we have ahead of us, which includes lessons from both our past and present lives.

_________________________
Life's disappointments are harder to take when you don't know any swear words. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)

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#237930 - 07/13/08 04:43 PM Re: Resource Guides? [Re: MarkK]
Still Offline
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Thank you Andy. I just learned a WHOLE lot in that one inquiry.

_________________________
Wishing You Were Here!

The Aftermath Video

The Water Buffalo Song

Top
#237937 - 07/13/08 05:49 PM Re: Resource Guides? [Re: Still]
BJK Offline
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Registered: 08/02/07
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I have a friend who works at Wal-Mart. We've been friends for a very long time. I have watched this friend pull himself up from the gutter, from the very brink of survival, to make himself into a respectable human being, and he has watched me do the same.

Before he was hired by Wal-Mart almost a decade ago, he spent the previous ten years jumping from job to job. He worked construction, he worked at convenience stores, and he worked in restaurants. He couldn't hold a job more than a couple of months, but then he cleaned himself up. The next thing we knew, he had passed a drug test and was working full time at Wal-Mart.

At this point, I think it should be noted that I hate Wal-Mart. I have several different reasons for doing so, but for the sake of discussion, let's just focus on the fact that I hold stock in Target and Best Buy.

My friend knows that I hate Wal-Mart, and I am aware that he is a company man who stands by everything Wal-Mart does. However, he is aware that I don't hate him because he works and shops at Wal-Mart every chance he gets. I don't hate him because he is, for all practical purposes, a part of the Wal-Mart organization. Furthermore, I haven't made a single generalization about him because of his status as a Wal-Mart employee and customer.

I think it's pretty dang important to understand this differentiation when talking about organizations as opposed to people who belong to those organizations.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

Top
#237940 - 07/13/08 06:08 PM Re: Resource Guides? [Re: Still]
BJK Offline
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Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
Originally Posted By: Robbie Brown

I sincerely hope i did not write anything that falls under spiritual abuse.


In my eyes, you haven't, Rob. And also, please try to remember my definition of what the term "Christian" means to me:

"A Christian is a person who tries to follow the teachings of Christ even if that means breaking the rules of authority inherent in the denomination he or she chooses to belong to."

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

Top
#237944 - 07/13/08 06:42 PM Re: Resource Guides? [Re: BJK]
hogan_dawg Offline
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Yes Bryan you make a very important point.

I'm glad you don't hate the people even if you don't like the organization. I respect the distinction you make. If anything, I have empathy for Wal Mart workers - they very often have a hard time of it. I'm hoping part of your feelings about Wal Mart are 'about' the workers and how they're treated.

I promise you, and anyone reading this thread, the moment they make one Christianity with uniformly held dictates and symbology for all Christians to follow, I'll promise, here and now, to disavow Christianity and if I fail to keep that promise, I will pose for MS readers buck naked, save for wearing a Sombrero, a cheap suit jacket and high heels (a sexy red, and shiny), so all may mock me and toss at me various rotted legumes. I will also wash TestingWaters car and pay for the wax.

They, Christian sects, are as varied as the varieties of Buddhism, like the colors of the rainbow, the varieties of peoples in a store, and the pebbles along the shore of the sea.

Just my not so poetic take of your metaphor. Thanks for the post.



Edited by hogan_dawg (07/13/08 06:47 PM)
_________________________
I can say unequivocally that the lie of "To truly heal you must first forgive" has derailed more victims than the abusers themselves.
Andrew Vachs, 2003

Top
#237946 - 07/13/08 06:48 PM Re: Resource Guides? [Re: hogan_dawg]
hogan_dawg Offline
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Your definition of Christian isn't bad! I'll think on it.

Yeah I appreciate Christ's message of forgiveness, for example, and I think I value it. I am not sure I try to follow it. Perhaps this is my spiritual undoing. I can think of situations where forgiveness can lead to peace in the forgiver. Those parents in that religious sect in the US who forgave the man who murdered their children - those people were exceptional in the regard you mention. I just don't believe I would wish to follow their example, no matter how noble and beautiful I believe it to be. But I get you. It's a good start on a definition. Maybe 'value' instead of 'follow', at least for this Christian.



Edited by hogan_dawg (07/13/08 07:01 PM)
_________________________
I can say unequivocally that the lie of "To truly heal you must first forgive" has derailed more victims than the abusers themselves.
Andrew Vachs, 2003

Top
#237948 - 07/13/08 07:37 PM Re: Resource Guides? [food for thot] [Re: Still]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
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Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
some food for thought to be taken with a grain of sugar:

the recent trend in this particular forum toward spitefulness as such belies a deep woundedness that seems to evoke behaviors expected to be found in schoolyards at least, and in prison yard among inmates at worst.

i went back to the beginning of forum just for curiosity's sake to see if there were any patterns emerging regarding the change in tenor of this particular forum.

in the entire history of the forum, no threads had been locked down prior to june 26 2008. now since that date there have been 4 threads locked. in less than a month.

there seems to be a rise in contrariness beginning about a year ago, last july. do your own investigating and see what de/con-lusions you reach.

ask: am i a part of the problem or the solution?

am i a participant in shaping the rise in the healing curve of the community by sharing experience strength and hope for the edification of others? or have i made myself the subject of my own narrative by enforcing my own viewpoint?

am i starting healing circles, or talking in circles?


just some food for thought...... thanks for hearing my words,

peace, and the grace of healing to all the brothers in recovery,

ron

ps: my hat goes off and my heart goes out to all those heroes of this organization who have found a way to eclipse their own subjectivity as center of the male survivor web world, and turned their own swords into ploughshares, verifying for us that recovery is possible, ever reminding us that it is not done by grabbing on, but by letting go of whatever chains are binding us to our own particular millstones.

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


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#237949 - 07/13/08 07:38 PM Re: Resource Guides? [food for thot] [Re: Sans Logos]
hogan_dawg Offline
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Registered: 03/26/08
Posts: 492
Deleted by ModTeam



Edited by ModTeam (07/13/08 07:43 PM)
_________________________
I can say unequivocally that the lie of "To truly heal you must first forgive" has derailed more victims than the abusers themselves.
Andrew Vachs, 2003

Top
#237956 - 07/13/08 08:27 PM Re: Resource Guides? [food for thot] [Re: hogan_dawg]
hogan_dawg Offline
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The deleted post was an excerpt of jokes by Unitarians (you can PM me for a website), about Unitarians, intended to be self deprecating and bring levity and poke fun at myself because I happen to have attended that congregation. I now attend in a different location.

The Moderator removed it because it was deemed not constructive.

I'm posting this so Bryan and other readers will know that the removed post was in no way a rebuttal or anything nasty like that - just something meant to make you laugh (at me and my kind).

Best regards, Dawg

_________________________
I can say unequivocally that the lie of "To truly heal you must first forgive" has derailed more victims than the abusers themselves.
Andrew Vachs, 2003

Top
#237957 - 07/13/08 08:33 PM Re: Resource Guides? [food for thot] [Re: Sans Logos]
Still Offline
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Originally Posted By: Sans Logos

in the entire history of the forum, no threads had been locked down prior to june 26 2008. now since that date there have been 4 threads locked. in less than a month.


LOL...Ron, I feel like my days in school when teacher use to tell us that "you are the WORST class I've ever seen in my 80 years of teaching." It seemed like we heard that all the way from grade 1 to 12.

I went back and looked at this forum thru time as well. Though you see no threads currently locked-down, some have been removed all together and some have moved to other places. There have been fights here before. I agree however that the atmosphere has changed radically.

There's a bar you can visit in a near-by fishing village. If you go there looking for a fight, you'll get a doozy of one. If you go there NOT seeking a fight, but only a drink with friends, you'll get a doozy of a fight. Spirituality & Survivors Forum feels like that bar these days.

_________________________
Wishing You Were Here!

The Aftermath Video

The Water Buffalo Song

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#237965 - 07/13/08 09:03 PM Re: Resource Guides? [Re: hogan_dawg]
BJK Offline
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Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
Hogan,

I appreciate your candidness in finally being able to come to some sort of a compromise here, even if it might be tenuous.

I've been trying to figure out a way to say how I feel without being offensive, and the Wal-Mart analogy was the best I could come up with.

To hijack a bit, the biggest reason I hate Wal-Mart (there are many) is because they became America's largest retailers based on an advertising campaign that featured the slogan "Made in the USA". Fifteen years later, Wal-Mart has evolved into America's largest importer of foreign goods. Meanwhile, people still view Wal-Mart as a "good ol' boy" American corporation.

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

Top
#237966 - 07/13/08 09:05 PM Re: Resource Guides? [Re: BJK]
AndyJB2005 Offline
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Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 1242
Loc: Saint Paul, Minnesota
Plus they destroy small towns, small businesses and employ (virtually) slave labor.

_________________________
Life's disappointments are harder to take when you don't know any swear words. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)

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#237968 - 07/13/08 09:09 PM Re: Resource Guides? [Re: BJK]
Still Offline
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Registered: 02/16/07
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Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
Originally Posted By: BJK
... the biggest reason I hate Wal-Mart (there are many) is because they became America's largest retailers based on an advertising campaign that featured the slogan "Made in the USA". Fifteen years later, Wal-Mart has evolved into America's largest importer of foreign goods.


Yeah....well, McDonalds slogan for many-many years was "Burger, fries and a coke....and change back from your dollar."

What caused that to change?

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#237976 - 07/13/08 09:39 PM Re: Resource Guides? [food for thot] [Re: Still]
Sans Logos Offline
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yea rob, indeed seems to be an odd alchemy at work but not transmuting us to a higher form, but somehow working in reverse.

what strikes me as most odd, is that with all our apparent good will intentions, a spirituality forum ideally has great potential to transmit a kind of 'light'. when we put all our candles together an ensuing increase in luminosity might be anticipated, but we seem to be creating a cloud of doom ill reflecting the highest and best interests of any belief system.

if nothing else, watching the negativity cancer blossom and grow has definitely been entertaining, in a jerry springer kind of way.

LOL

keep the faith brothers,

ron

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#237978 - 07/13/08 09:40 PM Re: Resource Guides? [Re: Still]
BJK Offline
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Originally Posted By: Robbie Brown
Originally Posted By: BJK
... the biggest reason I hate Wal-Mart (there are many) is because they became America's largest retailers based on an advertising campaign that featured the slogan "Made in the USA". Fifteen years later, Wal-Mart has evolved into America's largest importer of foreign goods.


Yeah....well, McDonalds slogan for many-many years was "Burger, fries and a coke....and change back from your dollar."

What caused that to change?


Inflation!

And besides, living in a highly agricultural area where beef is a pretty important commodity, the fact that McDonald's is the worlds single largest consumer of United States beef makes me a supporter!

And a stockholder.

Bryan

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#237980 - 07/13/08 09:59 PM Re: Resource Guides? [Re: BJK]
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Inflation is an economic factor. Economics is what drives Walmart's suppliers to go to China for labor. Walmart does not go to China to seek product. Their suppliers move production to China. Its NOT Walmart's fault. Rather, its a reality of manufacturing.

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#237985 - 07/13/08 10:17 PM Re: Resource Guides? [Re: Still]
BJK Offline
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Yes, but inflation isn't what drives Wal-Mart to go to China to seek product. Inflation theoretically affects all economic factors equally. Wal-Mart forces their suppliers to move production to China because they are continually seeking to undercut their competitors' prices. Wal-Mart tells Hanes, we will no longer pay more than x dollars for a package of t-shirts, and Hanes has the choice to either move their production to a place that provides cheap labor or to lose distribution from the largest retailer in the world.

Of course, then the net effect is that everyone now gets cheap t-shirts from Hanes, but Wal-Mart has been the force setting the ball in motion for the past decade. Their demand for cheaper products has forced suppliers to move manufacturing to China. In the short term, cheaper t-shirts are a good thing. In the long term, it's not so good.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

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#237986 - 07/13/08 10:24 PM Re: Resource Guides? [Re: BJK]
MarkK Offline
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Greed makes the world spin, gentlemen.


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#237988 - 07/13/08 10:27 PM Re: Resource Guides? [Re: BJK]
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Yeah...but in the meantime...I'm sure enjoying those low prices \:D

With my disability income, I could not even afford to live without WallyWord. $2.50 for a big-ass bag of freeze-pops!

Our Wally Super-Fantastic World moved in 4 years ago, we have yet to lose a single other store to the pressure. I fought to patronize the non-wallies as long as i could. For meats and produce, I still go to the local chain. But when it comes to things like kids cereal, the saving is typically 33%.

So NOW, I see them as a blessing rather than a curse.

What pisses ME off about them is that the "greeter" at the door is not a "greeter" at all. He/She is there to check your receipt as you leave to ensure yer not stealing. These days, I've taken to ignoring her and walking right on past. Fk them, I paid! If they cant figure that out without an interogation...too bad!

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#237989 - 07/13/08 10:29 PM Re: Resource Guides? [Re: MarkK]
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I don't have a source for this, but I've heard McDonald's is the leading deforester of tropical rain forest in the world. To make room for their cows?

Something doesn't click, though...isn't there cows in the states to use? lol.

I don't know. LOL

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#237990 - 07/13/08 10:37 PM Re: Resource Guides? [Re: Still]
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BTW...if you really wanna hate WallyWorld...check out their HR Policies.

I was sitting in the hospital ER waitng area one day. There was a woman looking very serious and focused. I talked with her. She's a manager at the local Wally. Its her job to accompany any injured employee to the ER or Doctor.

I asked why? She could not tell me. I asked if the employee refused and wanted to go on their own time? She said that was simply not an option. What if I did not want you around me or the hospital at all while I was getting treated? She said it did not matter, Wally requires that a rep (of her title) be present and that she interview the injured employee before and after the ER visit.

She was a spooky bitch. Ex-military (which is all they hire for that particular position, according to her).

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#237991 - 07/13/08 10:42 PM Re: Resource Guides? [Re: MarkK]
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Originally Posted By: MarkK
Greed makes the world spin, gentlemen.




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#237992 - 07/13/08 10:46 PM Re: Resource Guides? [Re: AndyJB2005]
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Originally Posted By: AndyJB2005
I don't have a source for this, but I've heard McDonald's is the leading deforester of tropical rain forest in the world. To make room for their cows?


Oh Andy!!! Come on...have you ever been to rain forest? It totally sucks! Its all full of icky bugs and snakes and creepy shit like that! And it keeps raining there! What's that all about???

Build condos there!!! Supply is still not meeting demand for living space.

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#237997 - 07/13/08 11:11 PM Re: Resource Guides? [Re: Still]
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I'm glad everyone found some love and forgiveness on this thread. That's all.


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#238000 - 07/13/08 11:20 PM Re: Resource Guides? [Re: testingWaters]
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Peace and Love IS Groovy...I always say...

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#238008 - 07/13/08 11:45 PM Re: Resource Guides? [Re: AndyJB2005]
BJK Offline
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Originally Posted By: AndyJB2005
I don't have a source for this, but I've heard McDonald's is the leading deforester of tropical rain forest in the world. To make room for their cows?

Something doesn't click, though...isn't there cows in the states to use? lol.

I don't know. LOL


Actually, Andy, Mickey D's gets almost all of their beef from the United States. There are a few stores down under that use Australian beef, but for the most part, world-wide, McDonald's beef is USDA beef. Oh, and they don't own their own cows, either.

The real culprits as far as deforesting the rain forests are coffee growers and soybean growers. That's why I drink Pura Vida coffee. [begin shameless promo] Because it's 100% organic, 100% shade grown, and 100% fair trade. Plus, it's only about $12 a pound, and they are made by a non-profit organization that donates all of their proceeds to childrens groups around the world. [/end shameless promo] Oh, and that's also why I eat real meat instead of soy product.

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

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#238009 - 07/13/08 11:47 PM Re: Resource Guides? [Re: Still]
BJK Offline
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Originally Posted By: Robbie Brown
BTW...if you really wanna hate WallyWorld...check out their HR Policies.

I was sitting in the hospital ER waitng area one day. There was a woman looking very serious and focused. I talked with her. She's a manager at the local Wally. Its her job to accompany any injured employee to the ER or Doctor.

I asked why? She could not tell me. I asked if the employee refused and wanted to go on their own time? She said that was simply not an option. What if I did not want you around me or the hospital at all while I was getting treated? She said it did not matter, Wally requires that a rep (of her title) be present and that she interview the injured employee before and after the ER visit.

She was a spooky bitch. Ex-military (which is all they hire for that particular position, according to her).


Just for the record, my employer has a similar policy. If anyone gets injured on the job, a manager has to accompany the employee to 1) get a drug test and 2) get fixed up at the ER.

Of course, if the injury is serious enough, the trip to the ER comes first.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

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#238021 - 07/14/08 12:16 AM Re: Resource Guides? [Re: BJK]
hogan_dawg Offline
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In Canada if you get injured on the job and the employer insists on a drug test, you can ask them if they would like to go get stuffed. Then, if they insist on accompanying you to the ER, you can repeat your request, as long as you preface it with 'please'. If they have cause to call the Police regarding your possible drug use, that's another matter. But drug tests are deemed quite intrusive things up here and not given lightly.

I wonder if that's because health care is tied to being employed in the USA, but not tied to employment here? Or if it's just because it's on the job injury? I mean, if it's an interview before the injury gets treated, that's preposterous and intrusive as it could delay treatment.

I just finished $1/2 million worth of treatment free so I'm really happy with the health care system here. I've paid $58 so far for nupogen (worth about $5K for c. 7 days) and that's it. \:\) Yet I've been told by Sloane Kettering that the same treatment in NJ would have cost $3/4 million USD and over $100K in co pay and other costs not covered by my wife's company health plan. Plus, they'd find a way to lose her as an expensive employee. We'd be broke.

So if you're ever wondering about the health care options that may come up in the next election, there are alternatives to employer sponsored health plans.

YMMV



Edited by hogan_dawg (07/14/08 12:29 AM)
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#238022 - 07/14/08 12:37 AM Re: Resource Guides? [Re: hogan_dawg]
hogan_dawg Offline
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Ah I got it. Liability and cost mitigation. They do the drug test to attempt to lessen their own liability, and put it on the employee, and they require you be verifiably treated in an ER so they may not be sued and their insurance provider not have to provide additional health services (and increase costs) because of complications arising from your negligence to treat yourself.

I got it. sorry for the bandwidth \:\)



Edited by hogan_dawg (07/14/08 01:03 AM)
_________________________
I can say unequivocally that the lie of "To truly heal you must first forgive" has derailed more victims than the abusers themselves.
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