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#237405 - 07/11/08 04:55 AM Re: Arrest WHO??? [Re: Still]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
Originally Posted By: Robbie Brown
It may seem unfair, but courts must maintain a basis for civilization. When we choose to pummel a perp, we ought not be surprised when the handcuffs go on US.


That's exactly my point, and I think it was Andy's too. If we make an allowance for this father, who I feel did more to endanger his son than he did to protect him, then we have to start opening the door for all kinds of allowances. Once this father made his presence known to this perp, his son was protected. Allowing the father to pummel the perp from that point goes against the very reason why society exists in the first place.

The unfortunate aspect in this situation is that the perp is probably going to get a light sentence as well. He'll probably even get his charges dropped since he's already been punished. This does nothing to protect the next four year old who tries to use a bathroom stall next to him, and we have no one to blame but the father who acted without thinking.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

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#237423 - 07/11/08 08:52 AM Re: Arrest WHO??? [Re: BJK]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6602
Loc: FEMA Region 1
Originally Posted By: BJK
Once this father made his presence known to this perp, his son was protected.


I fully agree. Perfect line Bryan.

_________________________
I'm "that guy."

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#237428 - 07/11/08 09:11 AM Re: Arrest WHO??? [Re: Still]
dannym Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/24/07
Posts: 543
Loc: Boulder, Colorado
I'm not making allowances for the father, just saying that I understand his actions. He may not be "right", and he needs to be punished accordingly, but what he did makes sense to me as a father - when your babies are in harms way, you don't give a shit about "right and wrong", you go into fight-or-flight mode... I don't know if either Bryan or Andy are parents, but parents do stupid things all the time to protect their kids - You are all discussing this as rational folks sitting on your butts in front of a computer - if you were in that bathroom with your baby getting diddled, you might have a different take on the situation.

Regardless, the law should be blind to any of this and enforced to protect everyone.

Dan

_________________________
"You should listen to your heart, and not the voices in your head."

Marge Simpson

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#237432 - 07/11/08 09:38 AM Re: Arrest WHO??? [Re: dannym]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
I don't know if having children of our own is even necessarily relevant. My sister thinks it's odd that I won't allow my 9 year old nephew go to a public bathroom by himself. I love him way too much to even put him in a position where something like this may happen. If it was to happen, I can assure you that I would not react violently unless the perp continued to try to harass my nephew.

I guess I just don't understand the need to act violently.
Once the threat is gone, the need for violence is gone. The father in this case pretty much lost all of my sympathy when he acted the way he did, and now my sympathy lies solely with his four year old son who was further traumatized by the actions of his father.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

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#237433 - 07/11/08 09:42 AM Re: Arrest WHO??? [Re: dannym]
AndyJB2005 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 1245
Loc: Saint Paul, Minnesota
I don't have kids of my own, but I have 2 nephews who I love just as much as you love your kids, I'm guessing....

And I know that I wouldn't want them seeing me beat someone to death. Would that tear them up more than anything else a one-time diddle could do? Would they be afraid of me after that? Would they miss me while I spent months or years in jail? Would they learn that it's okay to beat everyone you hate?

The questions go on forever...

And protecting them that way is way more important, to me, than making a pervert pay.


_________________________
Life's disappointments are harder to take when you don't know any swear words. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)

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#237437 - 07/11/08 09:53 AM Re: Arrest WHO??? [Re: Still]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
I just want to add that I sincerely hope that nothing that would cause any of you men to act out in such a manner ever happens. You are too good of people to have to endure such additional crap to the crap you've already endured.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

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#237443 - 07/11/08 10:11 AM Re: Arrest WHO??? [Re: AndyJB2005]
CDavid Offline


Registered: 07/05/08
Posts: 184
Interesting line of discussion...

There are, though, I think, several really good points that are being left out.

Was it a coincidence that Mr. Rodriquez was in the stall next to the four year old?

There are certainly statistics that suggest that the "average" perpetrator, when finally caught, often times has well over a hundred victims. And while poor Mr. Rodriquez may have not had any priors, we, most certainly, know that that is not necessarily the best evidence to simply let him walk away.

And, while the incident would certainly be upsetting, I think watching my dad beat the shit out of the guy woulda been cool.

There! You son-of-a-bitch! Do not mess with us. My dad loves me, is willing to go to jail to protect me.

I am not clear on how poor Mr. Rodriquez became the victim in this scenario?

As a father and a grandfather...Mr. Rodriquez would be recovering in ICU. Not back to work. And, more importantly, I understand, unlike poor Mr. Rodriquez, that actions do have consequences. I would fully expect them to be applied in this circumstance.

We might guess that the father's first clue that something was happening, might have been a scream from his four year old son. That would certainly make sense. Would the first thing to come to mind, really be, to calmly "detain" poor Mr. Rodriquez?


CD


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#237455 - 07/11/08 10:29 AM Re: Arrest WHO??? [Re: BJK]
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
I hope that the father pleads not guilty and takes his chances with the good judgment of a jury. Depending on the state one is on trial with, it often takes only ONE juror to say "not guilty" and you have a hung jury, at which point the prosecutor must once again file charges and ask for a new trial, or the charges are simply dropped. If I am remiss in my assumptions, please correct me. (but be nice because I hate being wrong)

I believe that this is called "Jury Nullification". It's a process that allows a jury to have charges dismissed against anyone, for any reason. It HAS occurred many times recently, some of which were instances such as this, which would be considered a crime of passion or whatever.

As a juror deciding the fate of this father, I would say "not guilty". That's what I would do. But that's just me.

As far as causing trauma to the child to see a father beating someone up, GIVE ME A BREAK. Outbreaks of violence and fights are part of the human experience. There are fights in schoolyards, the workplace, and in bathroom stalls when little boys are being groped by strangers who are caught in the act.

Sure, this boy probably cried and hated seeing such an ugly thing happen, (daddy beating up a stranger), but I guarantee you this, he will remember it, and he will always know that he told, was believed, and his Dad stuck up for him. His Dad may have over-reacted, but at least that little boy was BELIEVED.

There IS a worse scenario to consider in this story, that being that this boy told and his Dad did nothing.


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#237458 - 07/11/08 10:43 AM Re: Arrest WHO??? [Re: Hauser]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
I would vote guilty, and I would throw the book at the father. By acting the way he did, he has potentially put many other 4 year olds in danger because of the fact that, as Dave stated, this probably wasn't this guy's first offense. It probably was the first time he was caught, though, and the reaction of the father will probably result in a light sentence. What the perp really needs is psychological evaluation to see if he is capable of offending again, because I guarantee that this won't be the last we'll hear of him.

Revenge is nothing more than the perpetuation of abuse.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

Top
#237459 - 07/11/08 10:46 AM Re: Arrest WHO??? [Re: Hauser]
AndyJB2005 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 1245
Loc: Saint Paul, Minnesota
Ok, go beat up everyone then. Have fun...

I'm out of here...

_________________________
Life's disappointments are harder to take when you don't know any swear words. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)

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