hi everyone, i appreciate what you have to say about the subject at hand.

for my own experience, i came to know 'jesus as my lord and savior' at a time in my life when i was looking to cope with the guilt and shame which was at the same time both the root and apex of my dis-ease. i was using god thru the fundamentalist charismatic movement to take the focus off of my own state of illness. i thought if i only did what the 'bible said' i would be 'ok'. it didn't work for me.

when i got into recovery programs i found i was able to stop using god in such a manner and recast him in what amounted to me to be a more compassionate role, one i could relate to. i learned to allow myself to be vulnerable to a diety i didn't have to measure up, to what seemed to me, impossible standards. one who was not just waitng to swat me down like a fly out of mid air [silly huh?]. i made great strides in my own recovery once i allowed myself to be who i was without having to worry about measuring up to a certain standard. i think that high benchmark was what was expected of me in my family of origin, and so i bulked at the sense that i would never be good enough according to what i perceived were biblical standards, requiring the same level of achievement. for today, i think a lot of my overarching perfectionistic tendencies stem from my failed attempts to come to terms with the family denial regarding the abuse.

after some significant recovery i came to relax, learned to trust a bit, and began to debunk a lot of the myths that i had created around my affiliation with biblical understanding of 'god' and what was expected of me in my struggle to achieve 'righteousness'. that's only my experience. for today, i don't need to relate to christian perspective in the same way i once used to. i seem to have eclipsed my own regimented thinking around the whole issue of spirituality and no longer align myself with a particular religious perspective or 'rule'.

robbie, in regard to the question:


it think it is acceptable. i know for myself that when anyone [not you specifically] starts speaking in absolute terms regarding the 'one way' to healing or salvation, that where problems arise.

as one person spoke in another post, it is important that we use 'i' statements, so we do not come across as pontificating in terms of our own experience or viewpoint.

one thing, generally speaking, that i have learned over my 55 years [with many of those spent in turmoil attempting to come to terms with my own recovery process] is what 'i' believe about my life, the narrative i keep 'reporting' to myself and the world, about my life, is mercurial, and ever evolving; that belief systems that worked for one chapter may not apply for another.

the viewpoints i held as sacred become easily discarded as they no longer apply and i remain open to new vistas. the truth of my life continues to unfold from day to day, adn i can honestly say that i no longer 'need' to hang my hat on any particular set of 'truths' for the only one i subscribe to is that which calls me to be ready at any moment to the willingness to accept the things i cannot change and the courage to change the things i can.

ron

Robbie,

I will respond to your questions when I have time to give it due justice.

In my case, the exact opposite holds true. The reason I wasn't able to come to terms with my sexual abuse was because, according to the Christianity I grew up with, I would never be as perfect as Jesus Christ no matter how hard I tried, and Jesus Christ would always be there to judge me. I never could understand, and I still don't understand, how Christ could love everyone, yet still be the ultimate judge of who goes to heaven and who goes to hell. Shedding aside the abuses of Christianity was the only way for me to move forward, for if my morality wasn't good enough for the Catholic church, and ultimately Jesus Christ, to accept, then my only alternative was suicide. I was going to hell either way, and the way I looked at it, hell could not possibly have been any worse than the life I was living.

In casting aside Christianity, I have learned to put the ultimate faith in deciding what is right and what is wrong in myself, and I make such decisions by how these decisions affect others.

I accept and cherish your faith, though, Rob, because you use it only as a way to dictate how you live your life. I don't think there is going to be any argument about sharing with the community how finding Christ saved your life because I have yet to see you make any statement regarding how not finding Christ is immoral.



On the same token, non-Christian beliefs are clearly attacked and marginalized by the simple Christian belief that not accepting Christ is a sin.

I'm still having trouble with this because I see a pattern that has been in place since my first attempt to console someone who was having trouble regarding their relationship with their religion almost a year ago. It was a cry for help, but how do you console someone who has completely lost all semblence of faith in his or her higher power without saying something that is going to be offensive? What do you say to someone who has come to realize that in his own spiritual path, God is not the answer without pissing off the board? This is a critical question because I run across it often, and each time I say something to try to make that person realize that rejecting God is not immoral, I get completely and utterly lambasted whether that be on this forum or in another setting. It has happened four times on this board, and it has happened countless times in local support groups. I've been kicked out of two different twelve step programs for trying to comfort members who refuse to give themselves up to a higher power because I don't think such a step is even remotely necessary. I was rejected by the first therapist I ever sought on my own as a result of attempting to recover from drug addiction because I told her that I refuse to believe in her God. All of those actions reinforced the religion I grew up with which was all about power and not ever being good enough to live up to the standards that Jesus Christ lived.

Spritual abuse is very real, and it is very common. Furthermore, a common thread that spiritual abuse has with sexual abuse is that once the secret is broken, no one believes the victim. It happens on this board. It happens in our communities. I see absolutely no way possible to talk about spiritual abuse on this forum without offending people, and I see absolutely no other venue for people who are victims of spiritual abuse to heal.

It's a double edged sword.

Bryan

Robbie said "2) Christianity has clearly been attacked and marginalized here in the past...even when something as simple as honest clarification was being offered to counter some severe blows. Am I to now understand that such attacks and marginalization will be dealt with to the letter of the rule?"

Robbie, give it up. You saw the reaction once Dewey finished his edict - it's 'Open Season' on Christians because it's fashionable to Christian Bash. And as long as it's ok to Christian bash, Christian bashing is going to happen.

Dewey's edict did nothing to stand in the way of Christian Bashing so we have to expect it will be tolerated. So suck it up. Read the other posts here. They're just attacks on some version of Christianity that each nonChristian poster has in mind. One thinks you're ruled by Church dictates (like, you can't think for yourself) and someone else thinks we look for Satan lurking around every corner. They're not well informed people and you can expect criticism that's of the same quality. That's what Christians can expect, ... regularly. Just don't expect tolerance without someone 'one upping' your faith in a not so subtle put down. These aren't tolerant people - these are radicals. So hunker down.

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