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#237522 - 07/11/08 03:28 PM Re: Buddhism and God: What is This Relgion? [Re: VLinvictus]
hogan_dawg Offline
Guest

Registered: 03/26/08
Posts: 492
"We don't really feel the need to convert people, at least I don't, but rather I just say what works for me, and say hey, might work for you."

I can't find any evidence of conversionist practices in present day Buddhism and I'm glad for that. I'm the same way. I don't want the responsibility that conversion brings with it and I don't believe it brings us closer to God or happiness or peace or enlightenment to convert someone to our own beliefs. Besides, it feels pushy. I don't like how it feels. So it's partly an aesthetic thing.

I did a Wikipedia search (yeah yeah) and I 'think' in Buddhism, Christianity, the Muslim faith there have been, historically, targeted campaigns over the centuries to convert people (i.e., to spread the 'word') to the target belief system. But these weren't necessarily done by the religious group themselves - in the case of each one I think I can find rulers, rich people, who aren't leaders in the church, who've done conversion work by means of money and power. And yeah, some religions have done the conversion work themselves, sigh. Anyway, to a lesser extent in Judaism there is acceptance of converts but I can't find a Jewish 'campaign' to bring forth converts - how interesting! And from my reading, the Hindis are the ones least likely to accept conversion. So there seems to be a spectrum across the major faiths. If this is a misrepresentation let me know - I have a lot of windows open here doing research and screw ups are possible.

In the church that I like there's no requirement that anyone convert anyone else and it's kind of frowned upon, which is partly why I like it. If someone likes what they see, they can come and talk and participate - Buddhist, atheists, Jewish, Christian, Hindi, Muslim, or Wicca, I'd imagine. All they have to do is come naked with a bloody slaughtered goat.

Naw just kidding about the naked part.



Edited by hogan_dawg (07/11/08 03:44 PM)
_________________________
I can say unequivocally that the lie of "To truly heal you must first forgive" has derailed more victims than the abusers themselves.
Andrew Vachs, 2003

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#237530 - 07/11/08 04:23 PM Re: Buddhism and God: What is This Relgion? [Re: hogan_dawg]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
....ah shucks, i was getting ready to move there and join up

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#237540 - 07/11/08 05:59 PM Re: Buddhism and God: What is This Relgion? [Re: Sans Logos]
hogan_dawg Offline
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Registered: 03/26/08
Posts: 492
Yeah naked could be fun - but they're not for everyone. Given their ability to move with the times, they're probably rightly criticized for being wishy washy and lacking in clear guidance. Seems to me that's kind of the trade off that happens. My wife can't stand it - she wants adherence to the text, for example. And a lot of times, I go there and wish "Oh come on with the discussion, just give me a clear direction for goodness sake!"

lol

_________________________
I can say unequivocally that the lie of "To truly heal you must first forgive" has derailed more victims than the abusers themselves.
Andrew Vachs, 2003

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#237555 - 07/11/08 07:35 PM Re: Buddhism and God: What is This Relgion? [Re: hogan_dawg]
testingWaters Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/19/06
Posts: 508
I really admire Andy taking the time to post what he did.

I want to add one key thing - in the Buddhism I practice, everything begins (and in some ways ends) with sitting meditation. Buddhism is quite the opposite of being a way of "thinking about life" but a way to find and sustain the world and ourselves as something other than what we *think*

There is no set of beliefs or codes that takes precedence or dogma over simply sitting on the cushion. Mostly we just work with our minds and we do so individually. In doing so we learn to know our minds and come to peace with how they work. The main precept, far and away, is that we must constantly work with ego, not to fight against it, because it is part of us, but to understand how it works and how it can alienate us and how it can make us suffer. My practice is a secular one, but even in the non-secular Buddhist practices, it is important to recognize that many deities are a way to talk about ego itself.

For example, in my practice there are a series of very bloody, very gory chants about destroying those who would pervert the dharma and the like, yet while they literally seem to be demons and ghouls, each represents ego.

My own practice grows largely out of a set of teachings by Chogyam Trungpa, the Tibetan Buddhist who emigrated to the US and founded Naropa. He built an organization called Shambhala out of these largely secular teachings that has been instrumental in my own healing. A quick note - he is a controversial figure and many people feel he was very destructive but most agree that his teachings are not tainted by some of the excesses of his personal life.

I give my very highest recommendation to his book: Shambhala: Sacred Path of the Warrior (http://www.amazon.com/Shambhala-Sacred-Warrior-Chogyam-Trungpa/dp/0877732647)



Edited by testingWaters (07/11/08 07:39 PM)

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#237566 - 07/11/08 08:15 PM Re: Buddhism and God: What is This Relgion? [Re: testingWaters]
AndyJB2005 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 1242
Loc: Saint Paul, Minnesota
Originally Posted By: testingWaters
Buddhism is quite the opposite of being a way of "thinking about life" but a way to find and sustain the world and ourselves as something other than what we *think*


Very well put. I couldn't have put it better myself. \:\)

It's using our head to get OUT of our head, wouldn't you say? \:\)

Thank you for the reply, Testing. \:\)

_________________________
Life's disappointments are harder to take when you don't know any swear words. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)

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#237575 - 07/11/08 08:51 PM Re: Buddhism and God: What is This Relgion? [Re: AndyJB2005]
testingWaters Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/19/06
Posts: 508
Originally Posted By: AndyJB2005
It's using our head to get OUT of our head, wouldn't you say?



Very much so, but with the admonition that our head is never, ever going away altogether and that *that* is the human condition, y' know? Hence we must work to have those moments of clarity and (dare I say) Truth. Because we can never wholly live in such a state - we can visit there and we can learn, but our head is a real persistent beast and it'll take years to come to terms with it, if we can at all.

best, TW


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#239974 - 07/24/08 10:19 AM Re: Buddhism and God: What is This Relgion? [Re: AndyJB2005]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
andy this came across my path recently and i thought you would appreciate it:



_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


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#239977 - 07/24/08 11:11 AM Re: Buddhism and God: What is This Relgion? [Re: Sans Logos]
AndyJB2005 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 1242
Loc: Saint Paul, Minnesota
LOL I love that one. I've seen it on a t-shirt. LOL

Thanks for sharing it, Sans! \:\)

_________________________
Life's disappointments are harder to take when you don't know any swear words. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)

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#240068 - 07/24/08 10:35 PM Re: Buddhism and God: What is This Relgion? [Re: AndyJB2005]
VN Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 723
Buddhist prayer about loss, which was shared in other group I am member of. I like it very much.

Buddhist prayer " Transcendence" -Roshi Halifax

May sorrow show me the way to compassion.
May I come to recognize the gift of my loved one's death by opening my ear of compassion.
May I realize grace in the midst of suffering.
May this experience in some way be a blessing for me.
May loving-kindness sustain me.
May love fill and heal my body and mind.
May I be peaceful and let go of expectations.
May I find peace and strength that I may use my resources to help others.
May I receive the love and compassion of others.
May all those who are grieving be released from their suffering.
May I offer love, knowing that I cannot control the course of life, suffering, or death.

Forgiveness:

May I let go of guilt and resentment.
May I forgive myself for mistakes made and things left undone.
May I forgive and be forgiven.
May I forgive myself for not meeting my loved ones' needs.
May I accept my human limitations with compassion.

Coming home:

May I be open to the true nature of life.
May I open to the unknown as I let go of the known.
May I offer gratitude to those around me.
May I be grateful for this life.


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#240448 - 07/26/08 07:43 PM Re: Buddhism and God: What is This Relgion? [Re: AndyJB2005]
trb Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/16/08
Posts: 16
Loc: Tulsa Oklahoma metro area
Andy,

New to Malesurvivor and Buddhism but I really like your post and this entire thread.

Thanks,

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Hanging in there One Day at a Time
RB (trb)

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