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#23600 - 07/31/05 02:20 AM The avengers (is probable minor triggers)
Leosha Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 3614
Loc: Right here
So my girlfriend and I and two other friends are out at dinner the other night, and then go out to a bar thathas some very nice live music most of the week. So we go there, do some dancing (not me, I do not dance; it is rather like Karyokie; not only would I need to be very drunk, but so would all who have to witness it), but just sitting back talking some, rather enjoying the evening for the most part.

As we were leaving, we see something occuring in the parking lot between three men and a lady. Me, I can not often be accused of being 'politcaly correct' or tactful. And in emergent situations, I can not be often accused of being calm and coolheaded. I just yell out and start running immediately over there. My friend, he tell the girls to go back inside, stay inside and call the police, before he comes over to there with me. (And I must say, it was relief to me that he DID come over to, although I had no right to expect him to; and I later was thinking of it and found amusement, how these three men think all they must do is kick MY butt, and then see a huge and at times intimidating guy show up as well! ha) There was a bit of a situation, some words and even some punches thrown in the short time before the police show up. And in actuality, the situation probably was not so much to begin with, but these guys are drunk and just being idiots. (we were not drunk, but perhaps still the idiots).

My girlfriend was, and still is, a bit peeved about this. I used to negative cope some by going out and seeking fights, because to have someone beating me up made me feel more 'normal'. I have not done that in a year and half. Although last year, my nextdoor neighbors got into a domestic dispute that I got involved in, to protect the girl.

My girlfriend insists that what we should have done is just call the police and perhaps watch from the bar, but not get involved if it didn't seem we needed to. She says that we are quite lucky that there was just a few drunk idiots and not members of some 'knife and gun club'. I credit her with that, in that perhaps I act too hasty at times.

But seriously. Who can see something that looks like possible abuse or assault happening and not want to actively stop it? She accused me that night of 'finding a way of indulging' in my previous self-harm behaviors, without actively doing it. That I get by it on 'technicality'.

It is not that I seek out violence anymore. But with this happening right there and right then, what else should we have done? It is not that it was just me acting, it was my friend also. She contends at least he asked that they call the police first. Well sure. And if these guys did have guns or knives or some other weapon, there would still be two bodies there when the police get there. THey just would have gotten there a few minutes sooner.

So was it right thing, or is it a way for me to inflict pain on myself without doing it TO myself? It was not something I thought on. I just acted, as did my friend. I told her I would like to think that someone would have acted the same if it had been her. She couldn't respond to that. But we are still edgy with each other after this.

Leosha

_________________________
Avatar photo in memory of my younger brother Makar.

"Human salvation lies in the hands of the creatively maladjusted."~~~Martin Luther King Jr., 1963

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#23601 - 07/31/05 03:01 AM Re: The avengers (is probable minor triggers)
Cement Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 740
Loc: Southern California
hmmm...I am not sure if you read my recent post...

In 2001, I was stabbed five times in a "random act of violence" that I cannot, one-hundred-percent swear I was blameless in. I spent three days in ICU, two weeks in the hospital and took six weeks to recover.

Suffice it to say that I believe I approached the guy after perceiving some threat from him. He had followed my wife and I in our car (had he, really? or was he just going the same direction?) on two streets, then pulled in behind us when we stopped. My wife and I were fighting. I had been drinking.

The first stab wound missed my heart by very few inches. The second missed my liver by much less than an inch. The next one punctured my lung. It is an act of fate, a miracle, or God's will (depending on your spiritual view) that I did not die. Even though my wife had driven to the hospital so quickly, when I arrived I had no blood pressure.

I told the young therapist I talked to in the hospital that I had questions about my role. What would have happened if I had not approached the man (which I did)? She answered, "What if? He might have harmed your wife, he might have killed you both."

I am not sure what point this story has, but I do know that I have realized how potentially dangerous life is. Although we must try to protect those who are in positions of less power and strength, we must always remember OUR value. You are valuable to many, not least your girlfriend. Don't let her lose you.

And I would like you to stay around, too.

Peace,
James

_________________________
And let the darkness fear our light.

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#23602 - 07/31/05 04:48 AM Re: The avengers (is probable minor triggers)
FLRich Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 1404
Leshka,

I never saw any type of physical abuse in our home growning up. My father always taught us, "What kind of man is it that can beat up a lady?" We did however have a neighbor that would beat his wife and kids routinely. My father always tried to intervene until the police showed up. I rememebr being horrified that this man would harm my father in the same way he was harming his wife. I'm sure S was thinking the same thing about you.

There is something in me, I cannot explain it, but any time I see anyone being harrassed, male or female, the same fear returns from my childhood. I become aggitated and will always jump in to try to help. It is an instinct for me.
I know some of your childhood. I would expect that this instinct would be more active and prevalent in you. I'm not sure at all if it has anything to do with your past history of looking for a good fight. It has to do with basic justice.

Your last remark to your girlfriend was classic. What could she possibly say? But little bro., do be careful!! Stay safe!


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#23603 - 07/31/05 08:02 AM Re: The avengers (is probable minor triggers)
Andrew Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/25/03
Posts: 1192
Scary stuff Leosha. I'm wasn't there so I can't give you a definitive answer or comment on the rightness or wrongness of your actions. However, please be very descriminating and ultra careful in such situations. Things can go very wrong in a real hurry! I really hate to think of you diving into things like that as I worry about your safety. Peace, Andrew

_________________________
there is no courage without anxiety

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#23604 - 07/31/05 10:58 AM Re: The avengers (is probable minor triggers)
sabooka Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 209
Loc: I would like to know also
Leosha,

I too react to seeing someone in trouble the same way. I have never had to fight before about it but I have intervened.

From an objective point of view, both you and your girl friend have valid points.

If it was a random event and the first time then your girl friend would not be able to say that it is a pattern. However, that is not the case. Even, as you say, you have not engaged in this type of behaviour for a long time. It can still be seen as continuing your pattern.
Your girlfriend might be seeing this pattern come back and that would probably scare her. Perhaps you could ask her if there are any other signs of your past behaviour that are similar and if they also have reappeared. By examining it together you might see that perhaps yes your old behaviour is reappearing. Or, she might see that it was an isolated event and that you were really acting out of concern for the woman and not reverting to old habits.

I hope what I have said makes sense. If not then completely ignore it.

Jonathan

_________________________
My happiness is not dependant on other people's misery.

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#23605 - 07/31/05 02:06 PM Re: The avengers (is probable minor triggers)
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Leosha, I am totally different, although this situation would have triggered me to do something, I normally would hold back.

Yes there are guys with kn*ves and guns, and who is to know whether they are high on drugs, or maybe a big gang awaiting their prey.

Yes, it has happened to me in the past, and I sorta dont want it to happen again.

Look after your own safety first,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#23606 - 07/31/05 02:32 PM Re: The avengers (is probable minor triggers)
markgreyblue Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/19/03
Posts: 5400
Loc: Pasadena, CA
Leosha - ( ok this is a bit of a rant sorry )

i think it is a catch 22 situation -
especially in today's america -

ppl are crazy these days - have guns are on who knows what kind of drugs -

i think your gf's dismay may come over the possibility of you getting hurt - even killed -god forbid -

and or embroiled in a lawsuit
or put in prison yourself -
taken away from her -

i think she may have seen the need for
caution and leans towards that is just furious at the whole situation - and yet todays realities -

I am proud of you for doing what you did -
BUT ALSO VERY VERY GLAD YOU ARE UNSCATHED -

I would have thought twice - as well -
but probably have gone into a rage -
and beat the shit out of these pond scum as well -

i am glad the cops came - i am glad all is well -

i side with you - in this -
I am just SO SO GRATEFUL THOUGH YOU ARE OK -

YOU DID WHAT YOU FELT WAS RIGHT AND THAT IS GOOD

I just hate people - who do this crap
it sounds like a potential rape situation

and this would have made me into a force that I I am glad they did not see -

it is unfortunate all the way around Leshka -
and there is never a polite or ulitmate safe solution to some shit like this -
sounds like your gf may have just wanted to protect you - i bet she feels conflicted -
but again - wanted you in mind your life together - perhaps -

I am with you - Guys cannot do this -

NO ONE CAN

M

_________________________
"...do not look outside yourself for the leader."
-wisdom of the hopi elders

"...the sign of a true leader is service..." - anonymous



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#23607 - 07/31/05 10:16 PM Re: The avengers (is probable minor triggers)
VN Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 723
My friend, I is pleased to be the help to you. But - as your girlfriend speaks it, and as good people here speak, there will be events not always, that remain good in the end for you. You were most successful in these actions that there is no who - as people speak with the weapon who is on drugs or who does not care, whether they kill whom - that. Those people are present at the world, and more then you think probably. Again, this case comes to an end fortunately for us. But I shall ask with others here, that you support your own safety all over again. The dead man cannot protect anybody still.

VN


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#23608 - 07/31/05 11:59 PM Re: The avengers (is probable minor triggers)
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
there's just been a documentary on our UK tv featuring five young men in prison for repeated violence, on for murder.

These young men all grew up in violent families, lived in run down estates, and had no expectations other than trying to gain 'respect' from their peers. But of course their peers were no better than they were, so violence became the norm.
All these men carried knives or guns from their early teens, and used them with no conscience at all, in fact they gloried in the reputations they earned by using them.

Unfortunately these people are all around us, and we just dont know how crazy they are or what they're carrying, or indeed how full of drugs they are.
Which makes any kind of protective action towards ourselves or others a lottery.

And that's the difficult thing for all decent people to accept when faced with some thugs hitting a woman in a car park.

Would I do anything?
I don't know anymore, I used to, but although I think I'd like to still do 'something' I also accept that I'm not as young, fit and hard as I was.

But I'm full of admiration for those people that do, it's what makes society a decent place to be, and if nobody did anything then the thugs would walk all over us.

And I dont think it was anything to do with your old, negative coping stratergies Leosha, it was plain old fashioned decency.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#23609 - 08/01/05 12:52 AM Re: The avengers (is probable minor triggers)
Rustam Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/04
Posts: 470
Loc: UK
Hi Loesha,

I used to run straight in and try to rescue anyone I saw in trouble. It wasnít thought out at all. I absolutely hate violence, for me the reaction was to do with my childhood and my inability to stop the violence of my parents against us. I didnít think twice about my own safety, I just felt that I had to stop it. I had some successes and sometimes ended up hurt myself. Now when I see something and my impulse is to run straight in I stop myself and try and assess the danger and then make a choice to intervene or not. People used to think I was very brave, it wasnít bravery with me just an impulse to gain a sense of control over my violent childhood.

I would still intervene if I could be of help and didnít end up too much a victim myself. What I hate more than anything is to see people gather around a fight and treat it as entertainment, that really turns my stomach.

I couldnít say in the case you describe what was right, I think itís worth stepping back for a second and thinking about whatís the right thing to do for all concerned before just reacting to the impulse.

Peter.


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