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#233833 - 06/26/08 03:22 PM God Loves Most, but Not Me
LW1527 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/14/08
Posts: 408
Loc: Salt Lake City Ut
I stumbled onto this site. I didn't realize how triggering it would be. How bitter I feel. I believe in God. But I hear stories about how God saves people, how God sent angels, how God did this and that. I believe in God, but I don't think God believes in me. I think he wrote me off a long time ago when he realized I was damaged goods. No unclean thing can enter into his kingdom, right? I'm filthy and disgusting and made that why because humans made me this way. I've prayed many times for angels. He never sent any. Let's face it, God loves most, but he doesn't love me and that's okay.


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#233854 - 06/26/08 05:05 PM Re: God Loves Most, but Not Me [Re: LW1527]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
aw, that frikkin mumbo jumbo has done more to harm people....forget all that crap behind the curtain. god redeems, he re-evaluates his creation. it is even more blessed when the creation turns to god to seek him, and god does not turn away. it is not in his nature to do so. it is his nature to convert that which cooperates. even as the nails are being driven in, he's there putting balm on the pain. put your foot down and the ground you need will be there when the foot hits the pavement. here is a prayer i made, and i hope it gives you some comfort:

a survivor's prayer

lord jesus christ i thank you and i praise you that by your suffering and death sin has been allayed; that by your resurrection we have been saved from the power of sin, disease and death, and restored to lost innocence. lead us to repentance, conversion and healing. grant us the grace and guidance of your spirit to willingly embrace our joys, sorrows and monotonies as invitations to deepend faith. thru them may our hearts and lives be purified and transformed accordingly, that the father's will be done in us as it is in heaven.

ron

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


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#238296 - 07/15/08 10:58 AM Re: God Loves Most, but Not Me [Re: Sans Logos]
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
LW1527,
When I first got into recovery I too was very angry with God for what had happen to me as a child. I felt he had abandonded me just like everybody else had.
But today looking back i can see that he has guided my every step-first in helping me survivor the abuse. Then by bring people(angels) into my life who having lovingly shown be the path to healing.
mike

_________________________
To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

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#238301 - 07/15/08 11:30 AM Re: God Loves Most, but Not Me [Re: LW1527]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6365
Loc: 2 NATO Nations
Originally Posted By: LW1527
I stumbled onto this site. I didn't realize how triggering it would be. How bitter I feel. I believe in God. But I hear stories about how God saves people, how God sent angels, how God did this and that. I believe in God, but I don't think God believes in me. I think he wrote me off a long time ago when he realized I was damaged goods. No unclean thing can enter into his kingdom, right? I'm filthy and disgusting and made that why because humans made me this way. I've prayed many times for angels. He never sent any. Let's face it, God loves most, but he doesn't love me and that's okay.


There's a lot to say about this. I'll offer it not to prove you wrong...not to try to convince you of something...but to offer an explaination IF YOU WISH. Maybe you are just venting??

Anyway...If you accept, I'll supply some clarification according to MY understanding.

_________________________
Jesus Loves The Hell Outta Me!

Still's Globs

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#238305 - 07/15/08 12:23 PM Re: God Loves Most, but Not Me [Re: LW1527]
VLinvictus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/05/07
Posts: 273
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: LW1527
I stumbled onto this site. I didn't realize how triggering it would be. How bitter I feel. I believe in God. But I hear stories about how God saves people, how God sent angels, how God did this and that. I believe in God, but I don't think God believes in me. I think he wrote me off a long time ago when he realized I was damaged goods. No unclean thing can enter into his kingdom, right? I'm filthy and disgusting and made that why because humans made me this way. I've prayed many times for angels. He never sent any. Let's face it, God loves most, but he doesn't love me and that's okay.


It seems to me like you've started out with some faulty expectations about what God is and what God does and, when those expectations were not fulfilled, you became disappointed.

That's no fault of yours: that the human story. We all make Gods to believe in, we weave myths and create symbols to give meaning to the world around us, to name the Unnameable, to give a face to the Faceless. That is the natural religious impulse in the human psyche, but that doesn't change the fact that at the base all of our religious ideas are human made metaphors. Being human metaphors, they are only valid so long as they work and continue to be meaningful to those who create them. When they cease to work, then the myth and metaphor is dead and must swept aside for a new one to be woven in its place.

God doesn't save people, otherwise no one would ever suffer CSA or rape or be murdered. The Holocaust and 9/11 would never have happened.

God doesn't send angels, otherwise see above.

God is not a combination of Superman and Santa Claus watching out for people and swooping down to save the day and give them whatever they want.

That doesn't mean, though, that God is not real nor that God doesen't love you. Just because your prayers weren't answered doesn't mean that you are somehow "unclean" or inferior or "damaged goods." If one is going to pray for angels to save one, one might as well pray for a flying penguin from the North Pole. The old saying "God helps those who help themselves" is truer than most realize: if God exists at all, then one finds God within oneself and when one seeks out to do what is right and looks for strength and help from within oneself -- and from other people (who, like you, are after all created in the image of God) -- one will find it. It's not going to be easy -- that was never part of the bargain in this perverse game we call "life," but it's there. "The Kingdom of God is within you..." and so forth.

No human being has the power to make another human being "filthy and disgusting." People make themselves filthy and disgusting by disfiguring the image of God found in other people. The person(s) who victimized you were filthy and disgusting; they cannot diminish your infinite worth and dignity.

Unfortunately, your perp(s) have blinded you to that worth and dignity. I hope that through whatever means of recovery are available to you the scales can be removed from your eyes and you can see yourself as the image of God that you are.

_________________________
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
~ Oscar Wilde

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#238356 - 07/15/08 05:14 PM Re: God Loves Most, but Not Me [Re: VLinvictus]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
only thing i might say differently ...

God doesn't always save people ...

God doesn't always send angels ...

As to why/when or how He decides when/where/how He acts ...

if i knew that - i'd be Him.

which i most definitely (and obviously) am NOT.

M



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#238359 - 07/15/08 05:34 PM Re: God Loves Most, but Not Me [Re: MarkK]
VLinvictus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/05/07
Posts: 273
Loc: NY
Fair enough. Theodicy is a messy business. For me, a God that doesn't intervene and save and send angels is a lot more palatable than one who picks and chooses. I've never encountered a single instance of such divine intervention that isn't either in the category of myth and legend or subjective personal belief and/or wishful thinking -- and the number of instances when any loving omnipotent and omniscient being should have intervened but didn't just gets longer and longer as time goes on.

If God can be said to "act" at all, then God acts within the human heart and through human beings. If "angels" are anything more than mythic symbols employed by the Biblical authors to provide mechanism for the infinite and transcendant God to interact with finite humanity, then they are nothing more and nothing less than humans who do "God's will" (assuming one can rightly say that God has a "will" in any sense recognizable to humans -- anthropomorphism makes me nervous).

Who knows? Anything's possible. It would better, IMO, to start off with the assumption that none of these things exist or happen. If they actually do, hallelujah. If not, then one won't be disappointed and one won't have to go through a complicated feat of mental gymnastics to justify this state of affairs theologically. "Pray as if everything depends on God, but act as if everything depends on you."

_________________________
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
~ Oscar Wilde

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#238446 - 07/16/08 12:04 AM Re: God Loves Most, but Not Me [Re: VLinvictus]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
Straight forward philosophy - sound and solid. For ME - to "act as if everything depends on me" gets me in trouble. but to "act to the best of my belief where I feel His leading" I can do. You may see it as same thing - maybe I'm quibbling over words (wouldn't be the first time, LOL)

As for the existance of angels, I have witnessed first hand, so that's a discussion that neither of us will convince the other of.

But what I truly have enjoyed - is our ability to share our beliefs openly - each accepting the other's beliefs as valid for them.

Thank you for having an outlook that always gives me reason to pause and examine for myself. \:\)

M


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#238449 - 07/16/08 12:50 AM Re: God Loves Most, but Not Me [Re: MarkK]
CDavid Offline


Registered: 07/05/08
Posts: 184
Since the original post included mention of angels...would it detract from the thread, to ask, to those who have personal experience with it, what color were they?

I had an experience where my wife and I were in the company of someone that identified herself as a spiritualist. This is not a judgment for or against the belief or philosophy, but she looked squarely at me, smiled, and said, 'You see angels don't you?" It so caught me off guard that I just responded without thinking, "Yes."

She then asked, "What color are they?" To which, I responded, "Blue." She shook her head, smiled a huge smile and walked away.

I had shared the experience with it many years ago with my wife. Color and all. So, it was an odd experience.

Is the color significant?

:-)


CD


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#238477 - 07/16/08 09:54 AM Re: God Loves Most, but Not Me [Re: CDavid]
VLinvictus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/05/07
Posts: 273
Loc: NY
Hmm. Interesting question.

Given the classical understanding of angels as spiritual beings (i.e., not material), then they do not absorb, reflect, or give off light of any wavelength. If they have the ability to manifest their presence in any sensory way at all, it would therefore seem likely that they could appear any color they wished or needed to.

_________________________
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
~ Oscar Wilde

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