Other categories that label people: Gay, Jewish, Conservative, Black, White, Male/Female...etc

In other words, not only Christians can be offended based on challenges to this aspect of their life (although NO one can offend this Christian with challenges on Christianity...so far).

I guess what I'm digging at is this: Does Christianity own a special plot of land in the CSA landscape to the exclusion of other life-categories?

bad idea for me to do this one right now. love tw

This is one topic that I think that I better stay away from!!!!!!

K....but why post that you are not gonna post?

Christianity seems to own plenty of "special plots of land", especially here in this country. And there seems to be an entire cadre of radicals ready to defend their sacred turf.

Twice in support groups, once this spring on an ex- cult member support site, and the other time in a substance abuse and CSA group in Arizona in 1999, members of my mother's radical cult have tried to shout me down and/or intimidate me into silence. The level of their hatred of ex-members is astounding. The guy that they planted in Prescott had a minor alcohol issue and no CSA issue, but he was the son of a long-time business associate of my step-dad's and radically fervent in his beliefs. I didn't get 10 seconds of my problems with my mother's cult out and he was shouting me down in front of the entire group. And the thing on this other support site is bizarre. The cult has made a habit of monitoring the site, to try to figure-out who the person is, to try to silence them. This happened in April, even though the cult membership is down by 75% in the last 30 years.

In Minnesota I had a Southern Baptist preacher in my sober house and in group too. We used to argue up a storm over every issue under the sun. Conservative vs. Liberal, Radical Christianity vs. Atheism, Rich vs. poor, Unrestrained Capitalism etc, etc. But two years later when I was leaving Minnesota, he sought me out and told me how much that he cared and how much that I had been of help to him in the eight months that we had shared the sober house together. My experience with him was rough at first, but nothing like my ongoing problem with the cult. Not one person from the cult has ever tried to support me, all that they want is to keep me feeling small.

The other site is Christian Way.org, and a much different version of my story is on their site listed as Mark's story. You don't have to register to read their topics or respond anonymously. Of course, my story is also on here in two parts. I posted it a month ago when I first joined.

So Rob, I am not trying to discourage your faith. I am just trying to get you to see it from my perspective.

Please don't take offense either. Did you see my response in the Rochester Post Bulletin in response to Tom's story. It is a bit long, but I was counting on a wider format. I made a strong and convincing arguement. Now I just have to figure out how to edit it!!! Just have to wait and see, I guess.

Thanks for caring in advance, my man.

Mark

I had responded then deleted it because I'm feeling a little too tender for it right now. But when you edit a post you gotta put something there.

NO problem at ALL. You cant shake my faith. What you said above only solidifies my position that we ought never put people in positions of un-natural authority in the name of God.

It looks and sounds like some genuinely sick stuff went on with this cult your mother is in. These folks are NOT Christians! Not by any stretch of the definition. They are doing exactly as they are commanded...to hurt you and drive you far away from God...to get you to hate God and spread the news.

Well, they need to be put in their place. I'll stand out front with you...with a bull-horn to tell them what they are.



Again..these are NOT Christians! They can CALL themselves Christians all day long....they arent anything but evil lost nut-cases. These are sick bastards that think they can get away with more by wearing the label. They wil all pay.

Rob:

They always project such a normal outward appearance, but you have to live it to experience what they are all about. They are currently down to 60,000 to 70,000 hard-core members here in the US and almost half of their onetime total of 2,000 churches have closed down in the last 30 years. Many of the others are just barely keeping it afloat. Their church in Pasadena, CA, just happens to be one of their wealthiest remaining congregations. The building is 95 years old and was originally built to seat over 1,500. These days they are lucky to draw 80-90 mostly elderly members on a Sunday, and are kept alive by endowments. Their Sunday school recently drew maybe 25 kids. And they are the last of 3 grand Pasadena churches that have had to combine to survive. Their decline is starting to look a lot like what happened to the Shakers. Except as they collapse they are adopting a siege mentality. Everyone else is to blame and needs to be silenced. You are right, they are one sick group promoting one very sick concept. And I am stuck with them until she is gone, no matter how much distance I can put between 1974 and now.

The branch church that I grew-up in closed its doors in the early 1990s despite having been crowded with as many has 200 adult members and 100 or nore kids as recently as the early 1970s. The adults died off and the kids quit coming, as they all realized just how far out on a limb that the concept was. And now we are being blamed for what happened by what remains of the membership, as they flounder helplessly in search of a scapegoat. There is even some splinter faction who now embrace members who choose medicine.

Thanks for your support Rob. I really appreciate it.

Mark

To those who hurt us in the name of anything good... We Are Strong! and you will not defeat us!

Rob & all

When I read the initial topic I copied something to clipboard and decided to read through the rest of the thread. I got most of the way through but to be entirely honest, I've lost interest and am now curious as to what's on my clipboard. So I'm going to quote it and see if I'm still inspired to say something to it:



Oh Yeah!

I just wanted to say that when I 'sorted' out where I was at with religion/God/spirituality... I came to recognize that I was "categorically failed by what I believed God was." and actually not failed by what I am comfortable with calling, "God".

Andy mentions in his reply that he has seen people apply Christianity in the right ways and he's seen them apply in the wrong ways.

For me the times that I've seen "Christianity applied in the right ways" have been so few and far between that I just don't care to call myself a 'Christian' anymore.

Similarly as a web developer, I have to make sure the code I write looks good in all the popular browsers. I check it in Internet Explorer, Firefox and Safari. Other browsers simply don't have enough market share for me to care about using those browsers... It's simply not worth my time or effort to bother with it.

Throughout my life, the market share of Christians actually applying Christianity "in the right way" has dropped way below acceptable levels to actually still think of faith as being a good thing for me...

I was never directly hurt by anyone "in the name of the Lord". However, I can look back and see significant trauma brought on by people misusing the teachings of the Bible to instill terrible fear and condemnation in me with the hopes that the outcome would be, likely, better behaviour and stronger conviction when it comes to Sin and maintaining faith.

I don't believe the ** M A N Y ** people who taught me about fear were 'evil doers' by any stretch of the imagination. Rob, you say that they were "working for the other side...trying to drive you away and get you to hate God." but I'm afraid I disagree. I feel they were actually trying to get me to follow God, inadvertently employing fear as a reason for me to continue following God until I was old enough to figure out better reasons for myself.

I'm old enough now to think for myself and have evaluated much of what I was taught. Again, I believe those teachers had a true passion for God and thought they were teaching me the right way. In my case, it truly backfired and for that, I'm finished with organized religion for a very VERY long time.

On the upside I am openly a very spiritual person and I am experiencing a closeness to "God" that I've never had before. Evicting/renouncing religion from my life has been one of the greatest steps I think I've ever taken for myself.

In closing, I do want to note that I don't judge those whom are letting the whole 'Christian' thing float their boat. Others have different experiences with it that are genuine and nourishing. I believe that there is potential for a lot of good to come from such things but like I said, that has been entirely lost on me.

Cheers,
~Brian