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#233766 - 06/26/08 11:51 AM For those Angry at God
Still Offline
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Registered: 02/16/07
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Loc: 2 NATO Nations
In responce to those who have experienced abuse in the name of God, I offer the following POV.

I feel that I must point out that my faith in the Lord is not, will never and has not ever been based upon people. Nothing in the bible mentions anything about ever having faith in any humans. It never mentions (in the new testament) putting ANY individual in a higher role or high position of power that anyone else. Thus, I'm clearly not Catholic (I only mention Catholoisism because there is a lot of confusion surrounding the "Christian" label)

The bible does call for us to fellowship with others (just like we do here). That, bible-based education and support are the only things I seek in a church.

Is what some people experience within a church "in the name of God" dissapointing, destructive and hurtful? Heck YES! Will I allow people to shake my faith in the Lord? Heck NO - NEVER.

My life was SO dramatically changed once I was saved, you'd probably say I "turned a 180" at age 14. From that day-on, Christ was the only entity that stuck by me no matter what.

It makes me SO sad to read how people abuse. How they abuse the church, children, the name of God, money etc.

This is where I get up on MY soap box:

If you ever put people in positions of authority you will have abuse. I believe that to be an absolute law of reality for life. People are sinful no matter what. Christians are not free of sin. No where in the bible says we will be free of sin. It does say we will be freed from our sins if we accept Christ as our savior. Many people have the wrong idea surrounding that issue. They believe that Christians and their leaders are supposed to be free of sin. They are WRONG! And many love to point a finger of "SEE !!!! Look at that hypocrite" when Rev Jimmy-Joe-Bob-Redwhiteblue Fs-up and is found in a hotel room with an ounce of cocain and a prostitue.

Authority and power allow abuse! Think about it. Even in the non-church-based CSA cases here and anywhere, what is a common denominator? Power and authority. So why would a church be any diferent? Where you have people in power and authority, you'll have abuse!

There are millions of cases abuse of power...no? To EVER expect human nature to change is foolish. Thus we ought never-ever put people in positions of authority and higher power when it comes to religious faith and fellowship. The bible does NOT call for us to do that!!! If you do, you get abuse....ALWAYS!

I'm VERY sorry for the abuse anyone experiences "in the name of the Lord." Those who commit such an act will be held accountable. Those evil ones are actually working for the other side...trying to drive you away and get you to hate God. And from what I hear and read everywhere...they are making a lot of progress. I just hope that someday you'll get to experience God's love the way I do.

I hope none of this offends any of you or ticks you off at me. But I feel a need to at least try to clear up some points of mis-understanding.

I'm no bible schollar, but I invite ANY questions or challenges to my faith. If I did not welcome these challenges, my faith would not be considered real anyway.



Edited by Robbie Brown (06/26/08 11:54 AM)
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#233770 - 06/26/08 11:59 AM Re: For those Angry at God [Re: Still]
Still Offline
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Registered: 02/16/07
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Loc: 2 NATO Nations
Selfish, self-centered, brat-boy, Bump

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#233774 - 06/26/08 12:18 PM Re: For those Angry at God [Re: Still]
FormerTexan Offline
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Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 11026
Loc: Denver, CO
Rob,

I share many of your points of view.

I've seen people apply Christianity the right ways, and I've seen them apply it the wrong ways. I had people reach out in caring ways to me in the name of Jesus, and I've had some abuse me in the "name of Jesus." Because there are people who applied in caring ways, I have to conclude it's not the concept of Christianity itself that is abusive, but rather it is some of the people - those who are self-serving - who are abusive.

As you said, where there is power in an organization, or person, there is potential for abuse. It doesn't matter if one is Christian, atheist, non-conformist, whatever-ist. If they have power over person or people, the potential for abuse is present.

A

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#233778 - 06/26/08 12:45 PM Re: For those Angry at God [Re: Still]
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
Robbie,
There are guidelines for people who oversee the the internal affairs of the church. 1 TIM 3:1-6 and Titus 1:5-9.
I agree that power corrupts and you have to be very careful whom you place in these positions of authority and have strict guidelines on them in using this authority.
ms has mods to ensure that the rules are followed or there would be caos . AS in life there are laws to keep order.
Is it perfect? no, we all fall short of the mark.
That's why we need Christ. WE ALL SIN and need forgiveness.
mike

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#233799 - 06/26/08 01:59 PM Re: For those Angry at God [Re: Still]
Sans Logos Offline
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Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
i'm cool

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#233810 - 06/26/08 02:21 PM Re: For those Angry at God [Re: Still]
Barkabus Offline
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Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 809
Robbie,

Thank you for this post. I am grieved by the occasional post on MS that seeks to blame our faith, our Savior, and by inference - all Christians in which I take as a personal attack for their CSA and resulting problems. I have to guard myself from such posts. I cannot read them because I am triggered horribly by them and if I allow myself, I will only add to the dissension by my reply. I easily become bitter over these things and I don't want that to happen. I REALLY, REALLY want MS to remain a safe place for all of us no matter what we believe. Unfortunately I don't always feel safe here. I prayed about this and about the post in question this morning while driving to work. MS means to much for me for these things to cause me to shrink back.

God bless you Robbie and thanks!
Mike

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#233820 - 06/26/08 02:54 PM Re: For those Angry at God [Re: Barkabus]
FormerTexan Offline
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Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 11026
Loc: Denver, CO
Mike,

You raise a good point. In my mind I did an immediate comparison to the two sides:

** One side doesn't feel safe if their faith is attacked, or perceived to be attacked.

** The other side does not feel safe with the perception that Spirituality, or specifically Christianity, is prevalent on the site.

In my near-four years on the site, I have not seen how it would be possible to reconcile the two sides, since they are so opposed to each other. Neither side wishes to feel insulted by the other, but it's gonna happen simply because each of us is not really responsible how a person perceives messages. However, we are all of course responsible for how we conduct ourselves on the site. I have my view of what this means, as I'm sure others do.

Andy

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#233832 - 06/26/08 03:17 PM Re: For those Angry at God [Re: FormerTexan]
LW1527 Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/14/08
Posts: 408
Loc: Salt Lake City Ut
I saw your post. i got sucked into reading it. Then I remembered. It all came back. A little blond 6 year old boy in Hawaii attending the Church of Christ on the Navy Base. The priest had a back stairwell that led to the basement. I remember now being molested by this man under the stairs during Sunday School. Wow, I forgot all about it, sort of. I tried talking to my first therapist about it and it got blown off. But I haven't talked to anyone else since then until now. I believe in God, okay? But I don't know why he allows this crap to happen to kids. Maybe someone would like to take a stab at that question.


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#233834 - 06/26/08 03:23 PM Re: For those Angry at God [Re: michael banks]
Still Offline
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Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6367
Loc: 2 NATO Nations
Originally Posted By: michael banks
Robbie,
There are guidelines for people who oversee the the internal affairs of the church. 1 TIM 3:1-6 and Titus 1:5-9.
I agree that power corrupts and you have to be very careful whom you place in these positions of authority and have strict guidelines on them in using this authority.
ms has mods to ensure that the rules are followed or there would be caos . AS in life there are laws to keep order.
Is it perfect? no, we all fall short of the mark.
That's why we need Christ. WE ALL SIN and need forgiveness.
mike


Certainly, once a earthly organization is formed, it needs to adhere to all laws.

A "church" need only consist of two or more people. Again though, placing anyone as and equal to or proxy of Jesus is complete folly.


What I was also saying was that as soon as you place anyone in authority, dont expect them to be super-human and free from sin. The opponents and enemies of Christ LOVE to point that finger of condemnation as soon as Rev Jimmy-Joe-Bob is found with the prostitute....NO? And they all say "See...Christianity is a big fat lie!"


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#233838 - 06/26/08 03:32 PM Re: For those Angry at God [Re: LW1527]
Still Offline
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Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6367
Loc: 2 NATO Nations
Originally Posted By: LW1527
I saw your post. i got sucked into reading it. Then I remembered. It all came back. A little blond 6 year old boy in Hawaii attending the Church of Christ on the Navy Base. The priest had a back stairwell that led to the basement. I remember now being molested by this man under the stairs during Sunday School. Wow, I forgot all about it, sort of. I tried talking to my first therapist about it and it got blown off. But I haven't talked to anyone else since then until now. I believe in God, okay? But I don't know why he allows this crap to happen to kids. Maybe someone would like to take a stab at that question.


LW,

I don't speak for anyone else here...just my own views on this and what I firmly believe. That is: God did not "allow it to happen." He did not "make it happen." Nor does he promise us that bad will not happen to any of us. In fact, he promises Christians that they will be persecuted by the world for being Christians.

Bad stuff happens. YOU, right now...and I, right now can sit in our cars and mow-over pedestrians to our heart's content. Will God stop us? No. Free will allows us to hurt others. It also allows us to help others. Similarly, no one is commanding you to come to MS and be a help to the injured boys and men here...but you chose to do it all the same.

Just MY belief \:\)

BTW: Other Christians can feel free to hop in and bail me out :0



Edited by Robbie Brown (06/26/08 03:35 PM)
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