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#233359 - 06/25/08 12:39 AM therapist thinks i need to go deeper
1islandboy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 858
Loc: washington
so i talked to my therapist of 28yrs exp. she feels i need to go deeper. because of the fact i live on an island, part of my therapy/recovery involves reading as many books on recovery as possible. she feels i need to get in touch w\my inner child. i feel i need to read stuff on a deeper level. i have read: courage to heal, victims no longer,speaking our truth,healing your sexual self,after the tears,boundaries,and beyond betrayal.
problem is:
#1 There are almost to many high rated books in the bookstore.
#2 I am seeking knowledge that is deeper for me, closer to therapist level
#3 cash flow will be a problem if i don't chose wisely.

thank you in advance for your WISDOM!!! p.s. welcoming moderator advice

_________________________
Rise above the storm and you will find the sunshine ~ M.F. Fernandez

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#233405 - 06/25/08 04:30 AM Re: therapist thinks i need to go deeper [Re: 1islandboy]
Trucker51 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/20/08
Posts: 2826
Loc: Denver, CO
How many of Mic Hunter's books have you looked at? I found his book ABUSED BOYS helpful 18 years ago when it first came out. There were a number of copies of it for sale on Amazon.com yesterday when I looked. Mic Hunter has many, many years of experience treating male CSA and male rape victims. His most recent effort is about military SA and rape, and was published last year. He is in private practice in St. Paul, MN.

Have you looked at John Bradshaw's books? His book HOMECOMING is an inner-child recovery book. I also found his book THE FAMILY helpful in my own struggle with a violent and dysfunctional family upbringing. Both are available on Amazon too.

SELF ESTEEM, by Matthew McKay, PH.D, and Patrick Fanning, is almost as old now as is ABUSED BOYS. It is a 270 pg. look into that difficult topic.

I first started into recovery in 1986, and felt that I had substantially accomplished my goals by the Spring of 2000.

Good luck in your search for freedom from this terrible affliction.

Mark

_________________________
"We stay here, we die here. We've got to keep moving". Trucker Mark



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#233511 - 06/25/08 03:17 PM Re: therapist thinks i need to go deeper [Re: Trucker51]
LW1527 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/14/08
Posts: 408
Loc: Salt Lake City Ut
I think books are great up to a point. I worry about when a therapist starts digging and wanting to go deeper. It can lead to false memories and what my therapist calls RAMBO THERAPY. I think therapy cannot be rushed and should be allowed to open freely and without prying too much. WHen the brain is ready, it will release the memories and the trauma. If you want good books, Amazon is the place to look and they have great reviews. I would question the motive in reading a lot of books and a lot of other victim's stories. It can be very triggering.


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#233517 - 06/25/08 04:01 PM Re: therapist thinks i need to go deeper [Re: LW1527]
1islandboy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 858
Loc: washington
dear lw1527,

i've encountered bad therapists, one actually told me,"i miss seeing you in my office,your insurance plan is really good. and i'm thinking you fucker,its all about the money for you.the fact of the matter was he did very little to help me. it's hard for me to explain here the confidence i have in my therapist.i here you, when you say that books are good up to a point. but before she said that,i have already felt i need to go deeper,perhaps on a psychoanalitic level? i'm not really interested in reading other peoples stories...my burning question,is who am i,what makes me tick,perhaps on a subconcious level. if something is broken, i want to find out what it is, give it the attention it deserves, so i can live a better and healther life. thank you for your concern and thank you for replying to my post.

the best revenge is living a good life.

1islandboy

_________________________
Rise above the storm and you will find the sunshine ~ M.F. Fernandez

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#233521 - 06/25/08 04:21 PM Re: therapist thinks i need to go deeper [Re: 1islandboy]
Muldoon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 1428
Loc: St Paul MN
Guys I wanted to remind you that you can order the books though the Male Survivor book store and help the web site out.

islandboy just wanted to tell you about the Healing Circles. The HC is peer support group over the internet here at male survivor. You can go to the link below for more information about the new one we are starting.

Tom


Healing Circle


_________________________
Teach the Children to Never Hide in the Silence

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#233532 - 06/25/08 04:59 PM Re: therapist thinks i need to go deeper [Re: 1islandboy]
1islandboy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 858
Loc: washington
dear trucker51,

Thank you for the book titles, I failed to mention,probably because i am only half way through i am actively reading ABUSED BOYS. we have a used bookstore on this island and bradshaw is a name i've seen often. thank you for pointing out which book, would be right for me on the several he has written. i probably need some work on self-esteem, as when life go to well for me, i'm always looking over my shoulder, for the ax to fall. i failed to mention to lw1527, that even though i feel isolated on this island about this issue,i am surrounded by a loving support group in the fellowship of A.A.if i was really spun out i could get support before i help before i finish this message. one nice thing about living on an island,is that everthing and everyone is close. i might and that anonimity is somewhat scetchy for those that drive vehicles. everyone knows what i drive, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out i'm in the program.



Edited by 1islandboy (06/25/08 05:06 PM)
_________________________
Rise above the storm and you will find the sunshine ~ M.F. Fernandez

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#233535 - 06/25/08 05:05 PM Re: therapist thinks i need to go deeper [Re: 1islandboy]
LW1527 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/14/08
Posts: 408
Loc: Salt Lake City Ut
The best help then that I have had is to journal daily and to draw. My therapist is the head of the trauma clinic here. Journaling and drawing have been great. It opens the mind and gets you deeper. Just when I don't think there was anything to write about, I'd start writing thinking I would go a certain direction and then start writing about something completely different. It really goes deep. I'm a lousey artist, but I keep my pencils and colored pens handy and do it. It works very well and opens up the memories too. I hope that helps. I'm glad you got a good therapist. A good one is hard to find!


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#233545 - 06/25/08 06:21 PM Re: therapist thinks i need to go deeper [Re: LW1527]
1islandboy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 858
Loc: washington
dear lw1527,
thank you for the advise,i need to start journaling, sometimes i feel like i don't know what i should write about maybe i should just grab some paper and see what comes out. my therapist has already advised me to start one,somehow i feel as if i'm full of fear and courage at the same time. while reading beyond betral,which was my last book, it finally occured to me (maybe it was how it was explained) and for clarity sake let me say it was crystal clear is that I DISSOCIATE ALL THE TIME ,now that i know this...what do i do about this?

looking for a lighthouse,somewhere in the fog.

1islandboy

_________________________
Rise above the storm and you will find the sunshine ~ M.F. Fernandez

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#233546 - 06/25/08 06:25 PM Re: therapist thinks i need to go deeper [Re: LW1527]
1islandboy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 858
Loc: washington
dear lw1527,
thank you for the advise,i need to start journaling, sometimes i feel like i don't know what i should write about. maybe, i should just grab some paper and see what comes out. my therapist has already advised me to start one,somehow i feel as if i'm full of fear and courage at the same time. while reading beyond betrayal,which was my last book, it finally occured to me (maybe it was how it was explained) and for clarity sake let me say, it was CRYSTAL CLEAR, that, I DISSOCIATE ALL THE TIME ,now that i know this...what do i do about this?

looking for a lighthouse,somewhere in the fog.

1islandboy

_________________________
Rise above the storm and you will find the sunshine ~ M.F. Fernandez

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#233548 - 06/25/08 06:40 PM Re: therapist thinks i need to go deeper [Re: LW1527]
jcf1957 Offline
Guest

Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 192
Loc: North Of The 49th Parallel
I'm not trying to shoot anyone down here is this thread by being negative in any perceivable way. I've read numerous books, many were helpful as far as knowledge is concerned. But somehow I feel that many of these books were only capable of leading you to searching your inner self and sorting through your emotions up to a point. As this gentlemen who started this post mentioned that he was lacking something deep within himself which is not always easy to articulate. The biggest journey to recovery has little to do with books although they are a starting point. Whether we are willing to admit this to ourselves or not. The biggest step is ("Total") acceptance of coming to terms with what happened to each of us as unique individuals. I am certainly no scholar in this journey to recovery. We are what we eat...Do we own the rape affliction ? Or does the rape affliction own us ?
Bottom line; this is something we all have to ask ourselves.
Myself included. And believe me; I'm not good at it.

_________________________
No affliction nor temptation, no guilt nor power of sin, no wounded spirit nor terrified conscious should induce us to despair comfort from God.

Today well lived...makes every tomorrow a vision of Hope.
Anonymous

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#233554 - 06/25/08 07:12 PM Re: therapist thinks i need to go deeper [Re: 1islandboy]
1islandboy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 858
Loc: washington
dear muldoon,

i would love to participate in a healing circle. i saw something about that on one of the screens. if its not apparent already, my typing and computer skills are somewhat lacking. if i could set it up so i could attend, albeit in a silent observer mode,i would love to participate. i work four tens,so i'm only available monday through wednesday. (monday night i have to secretary A.A. meeting at 6:30 pacific time),but if i can swing it, i'm ALL IN.

about the books, we have a library on this island as well as a used bookstore. that being said what my angle is,and what i'm trying to do is purchase a handfull of books from the MS BOOKSTORE. there are so many books, and it's not like i can thumb through them,which brings my back to my original post.

narrative approaches,treating the adult survivor,the body remembers,trauma and thetherapist,emotional alchemy,anatomy of the spirit,the seat of the soul,and the power of now (cd) are a FEW of the MANY i am looking at.

p.s. I also attempted to make a modest donation to MS and for some reason i kept getting an error message on the creditcard\payment screen.

p.p.s. I attempted to contact the moderators, and there either extremely busy or they didn't get my message.

thank you for your input,

1islandboy

_________________________
Rise above the storm and you will find the sunshine ~ M.F. Fernandez

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#233557 - 06/25/08 07:26 PM Re: therapist thinks i need to go deeper [Re: 1islandboy]
testingWaters Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/19/06
Posts: 508
What do you hope to gain by reading more of these books? What do you want to understand? What would you like to change? In other words - having goals can help.

I think being at odds with a therapist (I think that you implied you want to read more but she would prefer you do something differently, no?) is usually a sign that there is a dynamic at play that is worth exploring. In other words, have there been other times in your life when you have felt as though someone in authority had control over whether you got to act like a kid or not? When your therapist wants you to get in touch with your "inner child" does it ever make you feel like she is manipulating you or trying to get you to do something you aren't sure you want to. Does reading more make you feel like you get to make your OWN decision now? Like you need to read more to feel safe? Like you can't trust your T until you know as much as she does.

This is all speculation - just an example of the kinds of things that come up in my own therapy. Thought they might give you some stuff to consider.

Good luck.


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#233616 - 06/25/08 10:53 PM Re: therapist thinks i need to go deeper [Re: jcf1957]
1islandboy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 858
Loc: washington
dear jcf1957,

thank you for your thoughts and feedback. I read your reply several times. you know
this is so much harder than dealing with my alcoholism. as much as i like my therapist,i never seem to have enough time. i went in there one time thinking i had nothing to say, and before i knew it she was saying were going to have to wrap it up for today.sometimes i feel there is a wall between me and my concious emotions.like with my message therapist i want to go as deep as i can possibly go.i just dont know how to do it. i wish there was a map i could buy to get where i am at to where i want to go. our stories are the same,and yet there all unique. sometimes i feel lost,in that i don't know where i'm at,nor do i know where i'm going.one things for sure is there is no quit in 1islandboy. one thing i saw rang true is that the big book says, "acceptance is the key to my alcoholism", i'll have to give that some more thought. and finally do we own it or does it own us.yeah i'll have to give that some thought also.all i really know is that i'm a stuffer,i stuff my feelings,and i don't know how to let it all out,sometimes i think it is out of reach.

GOD PLEASE HELP ME,

1ISLANDBOY



Edited by 1islandboy (06/25/08 10:55 PM)
_________________________
Rise above the storm and you will find the sunshine ~ M.F. Fernandez

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#233723 - 06/26/08 08:54 AM Re: therapist thinks i need to go deeper [Re: jcf1957]
LW1527 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/14/08
Posts: 408
Loc: Salt Lake City Ut
I get regular notebooks and write in them. I keep them in my backpack and write in them a lot. I also keep an art pad and pencils there when I need to draw. As far as dissociating, I am king of disociating. I would say that almost everyone here has that problem and more. I think that there are many here that even have Dissociative Identity Disorder. How to deal with disociation? Practice. Be aware of your surroundings. Become aware of how you start to feel physically when you start to dissociate. My therapist told me it is a very hard thing to get a hold of and not to be impatient. It takes practice. It's not just a mind thing, it's a celular total body thing. You are brave to be here.


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#233735 - 06/26/08 10:08 AM Re: therapist thinks i need to go deeper [Re: 1islandboy]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6843
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: 1islandboy
dear jcf1957,

sometimes i feel there is a wall between me and my concious emotions... sometimes i feel lost,in that i don't know where i'm at,nor do i know where i'm going...i stuff my feelings,and i don't know how to let it all out,sometimes i think it is out of reach.


These are all symptomatic of some pretty heavy dissociation.

I have been had these symptoms and still do. They seem more easily acquired than healed. Not that it's easy to be abused.

Early abuse plus bdsm will do it. This is why bdsm is not a constructive play thing. It will teach you to dissociate. Then the dissociation will take some real effort to heal.

Have you found any books on dissociation to read? I think that should be the goal.

It has been healing for me to read and respond to the messages on this web site. Why? This process connects my rational mind with my emotional self.

Puffer



Edited by pufferfish (06/26/08 10:42 AM)

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#233944 - 06/26/08 10:03 PM Re: therapist thinks i need to go deeper [Re: pufferfish]
1islandboy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 858
Loc: washington
a message of hope,

today was my first day back to work. i reflected on my thoughts of the last three days off. on monday, i officially got on line. this was also the day i buried PRECIOUS,my cat. i inherited some acreage apart from the house that i live in. as i drove through the gate i noticed the grass was tall,upon cresting the hill i realized i was going to have to drive through canary grass,that was EXTREMELY TALL. all i can say was it was pretty surreal. i must add that i've had to many coincidences, not to believe in a higher power. in what i believe to be the most sacred part of my land,a meadow, i see a dear and her faun. i'm thinking, life reborn, and after that i bury my gentle soul. i feel my cat was a gentle soul just like me.i grieve my loss, and before i leave a eagle lands, followed by another eagle, talons facing on another. my first thought was that they were fighting,upon further reflection i believe they were doing something very different, if you get my drift...HA.HA.HA... DEEP SYMBOLISM....

anyway i got all spun out on trying to read more books,for i've felt so much healing,in doing so.
and where is the emotion of anger...well looking back, i've had a pretty good wrestling career in high school, maybe just maybe the wounded warrior had a trick up sleeve..
take them to the deep end and show them what driven is all about. and every book that i have consumed has meant something to me.. that's right consumed..should i add that i believe that even though i'm a type B personality, that when you see the finish line, you sprint towards the finish. weren't you the one that had to stop competing in track,because you kept pulling your groin.it's like dude, you were outrunning what your body can handle..and check this out...i'll let you in on a little secret ( Everyone out there,You can keep a secret right? there is someone who understands me on this island..one of my fellow co-workers.)he explained to me one day that this thing never goes away,but its like a spiral,and each time it come in to your life it has less and less of an power...even though i just got internet sevice the other day..i've been on my sponsors computer in invisible mode.

LET'S GIVE A SHOUT OUT TO THOSE THAT MADE THIS ALL POSSIBLE.(AND YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE).

in the end you see maybe you've read all the books you needed to read. and if you've aquired sufficient knowledge. Why on earth, do you keep looking for the holygrail, when perhaps you've already found it. i might add i never told my T,all the books i've read on the subject. in my final tally, i forgot to mention," confronting the victim role". and perhaps you did just that. maybe just maybe,wounded warrior, you should stop picking at the picking at the wound, and start wearing your scars as a badge of courage....and finally,let's remember that courage is not the abscence of fear,it's the willingness to face your fear.

living a good life is the best revenge,

1island boy

_________________________
Rise above the storm and you will find the sunshine ~ M.F. Fernandez

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#234366 - 06/28/08 09:34 PM Re: therapist thinks i need to go deeper [Re: pufferfish]
jcf1957 Offline
Guest

Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 192
Loc: North Of The 49th Parallel
Puffer;

You have stated something huge about myself that I have had an immense difficult time putting a handle on.

Up to now; maybe it's because I have never been able to admit that I really do have a Dissociative Identity Disorder in some form or varying degree at least.

Twenty-three years prior to these last five years of turtle slow recovery I dissociated my whole past and personal identity after I was brutally gang-raped at gunpoint. Perhaps it was just too painful for me to confront. Evidently I became another person.
Someone whom I really wasn't and pretended to be.

Yet; in all those years I really didn't like that part about myself. My subconscious was trying to deal with my brutal rape affliction. On a conscious level I did my utmost dissociating and suppressing who I really was by becoming somebody else.

Five years ago I had a major nervous break-down and I've been trying to deal all at once with everything that has happened to me in these last twenty-nine years. When you add the brutal gang-rape on top of this it's all too overwhelming. Shame, Guilt, and the fact that I end up hating myself. I don't like what I see or facing anything about my past. It has been extremely hard trying to articulate all this with my female therapist. I feel as though I am lost and alone most of the time with little breakthrough of combating my dissociative past.

Emotionally I'm a wreck. Why is it we men bottle everything inside ? Is it some protective mode of dealing with reality ?
I feel as though I've made little progress. I'm in this recovery for the long haul. I only hope there's light at the end of the tunnel.

Puffer; I can identify with you in many ways.

Hang in there friend. Take care Chris




Edited by jcf1957 (06/29/08 06:57 AM)
_________________________
No affliction nor temptation, no guilt nor power of sin, no wounded spirit nor terrified conscious should induce us to despair comfort from God.

Today well lived...makes every tomorrow a vision of Hope.
Anonymous

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#234412 - 06/29/08 07:07 AM Re: therapist thinks i need to go deeper [Re: jcf1957]
hogan_dawg Offline
Guest

Registered: 03/26/08
Posts: 492
I'm really sorry to hear about your pal Precious the little cat. This grief will pass and s/he'll be a wonderful memory for you. I'm sure s/he was a great guy.

Strategy - Cheap and Cheerful Immersion

On your going 'deeper' - Immersion is a cheap way to go.

- You've got excellent advice and more importantly, comrades here.
- You've got literature that deals with the subject.
- You've got a therapist that you trust.

So going deeper is kind of an intellectual challenge that hasn't been very well 'defined', at least here. So I'll take a shot.

I define it as maybe 'immersing' yourself more into the topic and into you. Why? Because you've got all the necessary ingredients to 'immerse' yourself in your own healing for a while and there's no need for any more outlay of cash. People do this when learning a second language (which is sort of what recovery and learning to feel again is about). The idea would be: You 'become' a new you through your own self guided recovery and depth investigations. You become more interested in your own life history (narrative) and reconstruct as you go along, making sense of detail by detail. The depth will follow the immersion - that's what you've got to trust and believe in order for it to work.

- If you don't find it too triggering, try coming online here more often.
- If you can stomach it, read areas of your books AGAIN that interest you.
- If you can take the effort, try journaling and maybe that'll start to open things up for discussion at the therapist.
- If you can discipline yourself, don't go to the therapist without first going through your journal and really focusing in on areas that are of concern or interest for you.
- If you can do the discipline, keep a dream diary and interpret them yourself. It's hard at first because you don't remember many dreams, but if you start writing as soon as you DO remember a dream, trust me, you'll be writing quite a lot after a few months of keeping track. Don't lean on others too much for interpretation.
- Ask specific questions - ask even stupid questions here - get a feel from other survivors about specific things they might have experienced - use this as a touchstone to test your reality or to see how your own reality was shaped in common ways with other survivors - gives a sense of belonging and "I'm maybe not all that different, which is comforting sometimes" but, in my view, not worth buying a book to discover and is more effectively done by making friends.
- Maybe keep a second journal - one that your inner child composes and writes. You probably know enough about the theory underlying the inner child notion to make great strides.
- Free healing circle sounds like a great idea.

Look, I'm not into the inner child thing. But if you are interested in learning more about your inner child, maybe you don't even need a book beyond what you've read to help you along.

I think you're doing great and asking excellent questions. Keep going!

Resources

Decide for yourself what kind of books are really of value to you. I, for example, hate reading about some other guy and his personal journey and how he healed. And I don't give a fuck how highly recommended the book is. Why? Because it's all about me. \:\) I don't believe one man's string of experiences are going to be touchstones for me, because my life (and I) am so weird/special/unique/fuckedup and the odds of his life and mine lining up like Venus and Mars with cozy coincidences all over the place are pretty small. Best to make friends and learn from friends - saves paper too. Besides, if you touch base with friends on a bulletin board, you've got 7000 life narrative experiences to compare against, instead of a book which has 1 life narrative experience. You can do the math - my approach is far more rational. Once you drop a line here, the odds of getting a nibble are far greater than relying on some dude and his little book. Besides, when you have friends, you can ask questions. Books aren't really good at answering specific life questions.

I read books that back up what they say with numbers and/or excellent clinical case history. I feel I generate the 'depth' myself when I'm armed with knowing how the traumas I experienced shaped my perceptions and thoughts. I work from those generalizations back to myself as a man.

I read books on trauma. If child sexual assault wasn't traumatic, it probably wouldn't be illegal - it's the trauma of it that fucks us up, and probably not the act of sex per se. It's the trauma OF the sex that makes us crazy. So my advice is stay close to understanding trauma and you'll get a deeper understanding of what happened to you. It's at the core of this 'thing'. It's what causes us to obsess, and it's the psychophysical underpinning for our basic biology, which got perverted by the perversions done to us.

Disclose to the one you Love

Keep the person that you love the most close to you and on the inside track with your depth investigations. Let him/her in on the secrets. I have been surprised again and again by my wife saying "You know, you mention this...well I felt what you said makes sense when you consider what you did here and here and there...remember?" They have historical personal knowledge that none of our friends on the bulletin boards will possess. So even if they don't understand the abuse per se, they can understand you probably better than anyone else in the world, and they have the historical knowledge to back it up, plus, they have the intellectual and emotional distance needed to remember pretty objectively what really happened, even when your own memory fails or your own perceptions have been skewed.

The people we love in our life know us best. When we share with that person, we have a real touchstone that can help us harken back to things we've done, things we've said, and help make us make sense of our history.

PS I agree - living a good life IS the best revenge - but tying your perpetrator up to a tree and kicking his nuts comes a pretty close second! \:\) Ha ha.



Edited by hogan_dawg (06/29/08 09:19 AM)
_________________________
I can say unequivocally that the lie of "To truly heal you must first forgive" has derailed more victims than the abusers themselves.
Andrew Vachs, 2003

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