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#23297 - 05/24/03 01:59 PM Re: Jump bitch jump could be a trigger
Nathan LaChine Offline
Webmaster
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 5378
Loc: Washington State
Kind of interesting how the thread has turned out. Some of you guys have leaned to the fact that it is harder to be your self if you are in a group setting. If the group on the bridge is chanting "Jump bitch jump" and she does jump should you be held by the police since you where chanting it? In a group should be hold everyone accountable?

James I am not sure what my question behind this thread really is. I know how I feel when it comes to people taking their own life. I have noticed tho lately I have this weird sense of humor or should I say not really caring. Shit that really does not do a good job of stating how I feel. I guess it is like don't know don't care to a point. I was wondering if anyone else feels this way? Wondering if this feeling comes from being abused, if it was one of my ways of living through it?

Lately I have been trying to rediscovery my self. Some of the things or should I say ways I act I am wondering if they are left overs from my abuse. I trying to fig which one of my behaviors am from my abuse and learn to over come them.

One of the biggest issues that I have right now is my feelings of human life. Ok before I go into this one please please everyone this is how I feel I have no thoughts of acting on this. With that said I feel that human life means nothing. If I where to talk a life it would be no different in my mind to when I go hunting and take a dears life. I have no regret over the death of deer and I would have no regret over the death of a human life. Now PLEASE PLEASE know that this is how I feel and that I would never think of taking a human life unless there was a reason too.

Hmmmmm that last part did not come out right. Shit I know guys I am going on and on. Ok for me I could take a life if the A hurt my wife or me, B hurt people I love, C someone every touched my brothers, D some hurts my loved ones. I am sure you guys know what I mean by hurt I don't mean normal stuff I mean like broke legs or something like that.

Ok I am going to end it their. Like I said please please don't think that I am going to hurt anyone guy. Sorry about all this please don't think that I..... stuff but the last person that I told though I was going to act on them.


Lots of love, Nathan


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#23298 - 05/25/03 01:39 PM Re: Jump bitch jump could be a trigger
guy43 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/17/02
Posts: 450
Loc: Minnesota
It's really a scary thing to see the mob mentality in action. Resisting doing the wrong thing in that environment has got to be one of the hardest things to do. But it does speak to one's core values: is it ok to harm another person or wish harm on them?

I'd ask the same question again, where are you going with this Nathan? I do think I hear you talking in an abstract manner, not something you'd do in real life. We do have the right to protect ourselves and family and property.

Interesting where this could go.

jer


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#23299 - 05/25/03 03:53 PM Re: Jump bitch jump could be a trigger
Sleepy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 288
Loc: Arizona, USA
I think what I'm starting to get out of this thread is that I need to start listening to my own feelings. So often I've never trusted my own feelings that I've always looked to others to tell me how to feel. And certainly within the context of the mob mentality I would have join right in, despite what my inner voice might have been telling me.

Maybe this behavior was simply a sense of self-preservation? I never allowed myself to "feel" anything and for sure to never allow the "real" me to emerge. Because when you put your real self on the line it's a great risk. People can make fun of you and really hurt you emotionally. And with a couple of bad experiences you know that it's safer to not let yourself be understood. So I kind of felt like I've been a great actor, and no one had a clue what I really thought. Heck, I wouldn't even allow myself to cry during a tear-jerker movie! So to differ from the mob takes a lot of courage because you're putting yourself on the line for all to see.

Or maybe this is all a cruel personality quirk on my own part. But I know that when I don't listen to my gut feelings things usually work out worse for me in the end. Since I joined this site in October and restarted therapy, I've started to gain the confidence to really listen to myself. The unconditional support here has helped a lot. And listening to myself is a bit of relief, actually. So I feel grateful to be overcoming these problems. Hopfully in the end I'll become a more "genuine" person who responds from the wealth within, rather than put up a facade.

Anyway, I hope I wasn't too wordy.
Mike

_________________________
"It is good to have an end to journey toward; but it is the journey that matters, in the end."
--Ursula K. Le Guin

"Mental health is a commitment to reality at all times."
--M. Scott Peck

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#23300 - 05/25/03 09:07 PM Re: Jump bitch jump could be a trigger
The Dean Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 2080
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
Nathan, from your posts here I get the impression that you are a very loving guy. You end your posts with: "lots of love". Not many young men feel free to say that so openly, not even to people in their lives that they do love.

A human life is a lot more than a deer or any animal. We humans have our hopes, our dreams of the future, our ambitions. We are the only animal that is self-determining. A dog can't decide to be a police officer. But he can be trained to do things for his police officer who is his master. Animals can sit down and decide that they want to be men of integrity, be more compassionate and determine that they will be as fully honest as they possibly can be 24/7--but we can.

That little grandaughter of yours and your wifes is a tiny little child that for now, just depends on the adults in her life to keep her safe and growing. But the day will come when she will tell you about what she wants to do in life and who she loves, and her favorite teacher, and the cute boy that sits ahead of her in class. She will be excited about the field trips she will go on etc. etc.. That is because she is human. Your deer cannot do any of that. So you see, there are many differences.

What are your dreams Nathan? Who was your favorite teacher? Why did you get married? Deers can mate, but they can't select a partner, and woo her and propse to her. Humans can. The more you think of it, the more I think you will like it that you are human, and maybe a dear, but not a deer.

Bob

_________________________
If we do not live what we believe, then we will begin to believe what we live.

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#23301 - 05/26/03 04:32 AM Re: Jump bitch jump could be a trigger
Nathan LaChine Offline
Webmaster
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 5378
Loc: Washington State
Well Bob I would have to say that my vaf teacher was my fourth grade teracher Mr. Worth. I love him great teacher I wish I could have been in his class forever. He is the start of my dream to be a teacher. Sadly he died the summer of my forth grade year. I missed him alot he should be that not all teachers are bad. That is my dream for the futur what is your's Bob? How about the rest of you what are your dreams?


lots of love, Nathan


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#23302 - 05/26/03 10:40 AM Re: Jump bitch jump could be a trigger
andrew-almost52 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 243
Loc: canada
Nathan,

The mob mentality/behaviour is really hard to figure out, and maybe even more difficult to resist. I think a part of it might be based in fear. The mob is made up of individuals who each have their own inner fears, possibly their own private hells that they are coping with. The callous bravado of yelling "jump bitch" might well be a group dynamic that allows the individuals to ignore their sensitivities and feel safer...for the moment. A person dangling on the edge of a bridge is a naked reminder of how tortured our souls can become. It is so much easier to hide behind the mob bravado. I could never have yelled "jump" Nathan. I remember all too well having felt just that desperate many years ago.

Peace, Andrew


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#23303 - 05/26/03 12:33 PM Re: Jump bitch jump could be a trigger
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
What Andrew says makes sense.

When I was 17 I came close to throwing myself off Lookout Mountain in Tennessee. Man I didn't even remember my SA then, tho I was a very troubled young man who was always in a lot of trouble.

There was no mob around so I can't say what difference that might or might not have made.

My dreams?

Among other things, young wolf bro Nathan, a world
in which no one wants to jump off bridges & no one
wants them to, becuz no one has suffered the
kinds of abuses & hangups that lead to that kind of despair, terror, anger, bitterness, etc in any person or mob of persons.

Yes I'm a dreamer...

...that's why I'm still alive!

Victor

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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