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#232847 - 06/23/08 08:59 PM bdsm?
1islandboy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 862
Loc: washington
hello everyone!
i am a transfer station operator by trade. i have been using my friends computers, and just got computer access. in case it's not already obvious i am pretty much computer illiterate and don't type well. my history in a nutshell is that my uncle started sneaking into my room when i was about six or seven years old. he exposed my bottom half and started having oral sex with me while i froze. the first time i did not come, as i believe i was to young to have an orgasm. the second time i did come,he swallowed, while i froze, and he took from me what was not his to take. even though i enjoyed it to an extent. this has affected my sexuality and well its in the book, i could type foreever... on how this has affected my life. this is where it gets foggy for me. somehow the roles reversed and it was me doing him,and with progression he would always make me choke while he came. at some point my older brother started to, even though it was concensual, started to dominate me from everything between stroking to anal. later i had a realationship with a loving and gay man that was in the army (i was enlisted also) this was also a concensual relationship and at some point was trying to figure out what my sexual orientation happened to be. I am recently divorced (bad partner...go figure ) have been clean and sober for over a year and a half. i am not a rock or and island. (thank you simon and garfunkle), but live on an island, which the locals have nicknamed "the rock" . so you see, i find myself somewhat isolated. i have read maybe seven male sexual abuse books and even though bdsm come up ,but no one takes a position good,bad or indifferent. while this was all happening i might add my old man had a vast porno collection and from that built a collection base largely on female domination for myself. my question simply is this is there a book that will at least expand on this subject, for survivors of male sexual abuse in a pro/con format so i can ultimately determine for myself weather i should purse this avenue in hopes that i will find this experience cathartic, like a deep and somewhat painfull deep tissue massage. thank you in advance for your responses.
p.s. my html is disabled. what does that mean?

_________________________
Rise above the storm and you will find the sunshine ~ M.F. Fernandez

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#232852 - 06/23/08 09:17 PM Re: bdsm? [Re: 1islandboy]
Jarrad Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/06
Posts: 1071
Loc: arizona
hey island,
check out this link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BDSM

it really gives a text book answer. there arent really pros and cons because it depends on you and our comfort levels. if you want, you can ask guys here for their experiences. I know I have dabbled in it and im sure other guys have too. Are you open for that? or do you just want resources?


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#232855 - 06/23/08 09:23 PM Re: bdsm? [Re: Jarrad]
testingWaters Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/19/06
Posts: 508
I'd use a great deal of care with that one. Nothing wrong with BDSM, but majorly complicated territory for survivors.


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#232864 - 06/23/08 09:35 PM Re: bdsm? [Re: 1islandboy]
blueshift Offline
Guest

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 1242
Loc: infinity
If you find such a book, I hope you let me know. I also have an interest in BDSM but have had a couple bad experiences. If you do end up exploring that, I would strongly advise you to find someone who is not just interested, but also informed about BDSM and, ideally, about survivor issues as well. Don't just find some sadist who wants to inflict pain... you might be in for more pain than you bargained for. Here's a link to learn from MY mistakes.


http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=206483&page=4#Post206483

And about the html..that stands for hypertext markup language..it's the coding that is used to program websites and whatnot. It's being disabled just means you can't use it, but probably anything you would want to use it for you can do with CSS (Cascading Style Sheets)Oops! I meant UBB and I don't remember what those initials stand for, but it is usually enabled. It will let you make something italic,bold or be a coloror change the text size. You don't need to know the codes either,just click the controls at the top of the text box after you highlight the text you want to change.



Edited by blueshift (06/24/08 04:09 PM)
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#232886 - 06/23/08 10:24 PM Re: bdsm? [Re: blueshift]
mogigo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 1331
Loc: Colorado
http://www.collarchat.com

This is a website with a chat board very much like MS's, some nice people there that could answer some questions for you if you want.

***Disclaimer*** be careful if you do go there, okay Island.

Stay strong
Mike

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#232970 - 06/24/08 05:34 AM Re: bdsm? [Re: mogigo]
1islandboy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 862
Loc: washington
first- i would like to thank ms,for making this discussion possible. second i would again like to thank you, for responding to my post. courage isn't the absence of fear,but feeling the fear and going ahead anyway. trying to relate to someone that hasn't been abused, is like trying to relate to someone who isn't an alcoholic. i asked my therapist, the other day, where i am at. she told me i am in right now in the role of being a seeker. she told me to seek love first and my fantasy\fetish second. even though she has several years of experience and i don't believe she has ever steered me wrong, her answers are so clean and crisp i feel the need for more elaboration. i dont believe these desires\thoughts will ever dissappear from my mind. i hope to find a loving person that understands me, is willing to go slow, perhaps only exploring the lighter side of this topic. thanks for the disclamer, i've been to some pretty dark corners on this planet. there are other answers that i'm looking for i.e. only yesterday did figure out that i dissociate all the time, i thought my problems stemmed from the alcohol abuse/blackouts. Anyway it's two thirty in the morning, and i have had a hard day. i had to bury a friend, a gentle soul, just like me. her name was precious. she was cat.

_________________________
Rise above the storm and you will find the sunshine ~ M.F. Fernandez

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#233076 - 06/24/08 12:30 PM Re: bdsm? [Re: 1islandboy]
blueshift Offline
Guest

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 1242
Loc: infinity
Sorry for the loss 1islandboy. I know how important a kitty can be in your life. I would sure hate to loose my cat any time soon.


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#233082 - 06/24/08 01:09 PM Re: bdsm? [Re: 1islandboy]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6875
Loc: USA
I was subjected to some of this involuntarily as a 12-year-old boy in a 2-week summer boy scout camp. Restraint with rope rather than leather. He tied elegant knots. This included involuntary erotic asphyxiation by being deep throated and a near-death experience. Believe me, this stuff is not for children. Lots of violence. It was very damaging. Lots of threatening with a knife to condition me not to tell. This stuff will teach you to dissociate. I did not ask for it, I did not want it, I did not like it!!

http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthr...true#Post219028


Puffer



Edited by pufferfish (06/24/08 02:13 PM)

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#233091 - 06/24/08 01:51 PM Re: bdsm? [Re: pufferfish]
feelingafraid Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/08/08
Posts: 76
Loc: 5,471 FT above sea level




Edited by feelingafraid (11/24/08 06:43 PM)
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Timmy

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#233166 - 06/24/08 05:14 PM Re: bdsm? [Re: pufferfish]
1islandboy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 862
Loc: washington
dear pufferfish,
i just want to let you know,i understand and feel your pain. my perp (unkle) came from a different angle, this is going to sound wierd ,but of love and compassion. we didn't talk about feelings,it was just how he treated me outside of the abuse.he gently groomed my gentle soul...he allowed me to accept my position gradually...always a little more violent...starting with gentle pressure on the back of my head while he came. later pressure at any given time,if he thought i wasn't performing good enough. i cant recall much vocal feedback while he was abusing me. it was as if he let his hands, do the talking. he destroyed my boundaries,and confused my sexual orientation. this leads to the topic of my brother...but i'll have to save that for another time. i now identify myself as straight w/bisex tendencies.
i have an acceptance that this has changed me. i will always be looking to go beyond suriving to thriving. hopfully someday i'll find a woman that enjoys strapping one on every once in a while. this is who i am/or what i've become. though no one understands me on this island. i am somewhat more at peace the further down the path of recovery i go. i wish the same for you, and everyone that is on this same path.

_________________________
Rise above the storm and you will find the sunshine ~ M.F. Fernandez

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#233174 - 06/24/08 05:33 PM Re: bdsm? [Re: feelingafraid]
1islandboy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 862
Loc: washington
dear feeling afraid,

thank you for you input, everyone including my a.a. sponsor thinks i'm crazy on the subject of bdsm , and to a point i am. there is very little support here on the subject of sexual abuse. thanks for the book title. in an ideal world i would find a soulmate that would be interested in ...well let's just say taking control,every once in a while. outside of a relationship would probably require me to go to Seattle.

_________________________
Rise above the storm and you will find the sunshine ~ M.F. Fernandez

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#234169 - 06/27/08 09:06 PM Re: bdsm? [Re: 1islandboy]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6875
Loc: USA
Well, thank you.

I really didn't have a name for it before! It was done to me when I was 12 at the scout camp.

I didn't know it was called bdsm. No one took the time to explain. It was just done.

Very, very, very damaging, to the point of killing me.

Puffer


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#234250 - 06/28/08 03:42 AM Re: bdsm? [Re: pufferfish]
blueshift Offline
Guest

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 1242
Loc: infinity
Puffer, I wouldn't call what was done to you BDSM. BDSM is something in which the participants all agree to and do willingly.
What you went through was abuse. It might have been the same in terms of what is done but you were not a willing participant and that is the difference, just so you know.

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#234319 - 06/28/08 03:24 PM Re: bdsm? [Re: blueshift]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6875
Loc: USA
What about the erotic asphyxiation by deep throating?

Is that something that is done in bdsm if done by consent?

Puffer


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#234321 - 06/28/08 03:41 PM Re: bdsm? [Re: pufferfish]
blueshift Offline
Guest

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 1242
Loc: infinity
I'm not sure. It might be, but I think that practice is fairly dangerous, and since safety is a big part of mainstream BDSM it might not include something like that. I only have a superficial knowledge of BDSM though, so I could really tell you.

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#234333 - 06/28/08 05:50 PM Re: bdsm? [Re: blueshift]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6875
Loc: USA
Blueshift,

Thank you for your response.

I'm also very interested in another question. It may be difficult to answer this. Was my perp for this bdsm-type abuse a practitioner of bdsm, or was he just a sadist, or possibly a sociopathic sadist? Or other? (multiple choice)

Puffer


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#234337 - 06/28/08 06:02 PM Re: bdsm? [Re: pufferfish]
blueshift Offline
Guest

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 1242
Loc: infinity
I'd say he was a sadist, and given what he did to you, I'm sure the word "sociopathic" would also apply.

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#234472 - 06/29/08 04:03 PM Re: bdsm? [Re: blueshift]
Trucker51 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/20/08
Posts: 2826
Loc: Denver, CO
May be ***Triggering***

My last perp most likely fell into the sociopathic sadistic category. There was no consent or safe word involved as I was restrained and gagged at the point of a weapon. I was entirely at his mercy, and I still wonder why I wasn't killed or worse. I felt so helpless and powerless as I was raped repeatedly and sexually tortured.

Two of my three previous perps accomplished their goals through violent intimidation. Both of these guys seemed to be more into making their nude young victim cringe helplessly before them. Violent intimidation was more implied than actual, though in both cases there was some violent abuse.

These three incidents were at age 13-15, 16, and 18, respectively.

Any speculation how these guys were different or any labels?

Mark


_________________________
"We stay here, we die here. We've got to keep moving". Trucker Mark



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#234597 - 06/30/08 08:13 AM Re: bdsm? [Re: Trucker51]
Justintime1 Offline


Registered: 06/19/08
Posts: 16
my bf is into this, i go along with it because i trust him. he doesn't hurt me unless i want him too, then he won't, simply because i want him too, its all a mind game with him really, as long as hes in control and he makes the rules we're ok. he's never asked me about boundaries or anything like that and I never set any I think because of the abuse, there were never any boundaries growing up so why should there be any now? he's ok to me, mean and nasty sometimes but better then others i've been with that is for sure. sometimes during a session i'll think back about the abuse and kind of relive it in my mind, I dont know why i do that, I dont think its normal but I cant help it. sorry for butting in on this post its just interesting to me that i suddenly fall into a cateogory and all this time i thought i was the only one.


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#234676 - 06/30/08 01:48 PM Re: bdsm? [Re: Justintime1]
Trucker51 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/20/08
Posts: 2826
Loc: Denver, CO
Someone else said that we keep replaying the events in our minds and seek out relationships where we are abused again, in order to validate our abuse or prove to ourselves that it actually happened. The subject is discussed in Mic Hunter's book ABUSED BOYS. My last abuser seemed to be a sadistic gay top, and both of the other two obviously had domination and control issues, but both also were or later became married family men and fathered children. The first guy may have had PTSD issues or prisoner abuse issues from his time in Vietnam. I know very little about the other guy's history, and nothing at all about the last guy outside of my 2-hour traumatic experience with him.

From my own experience I would tell you that when we have unresolved abuse issues we seem to be really good at finding people who, like us, have been abused or will abuse us or take advantage of us again. There seems to be some way that the unafflicted members of our society have of quickly judging us and keeping their distance. This has more to do with one of your other posts today.

After I had substantially resolved my abuse issues it became much less readily discernable to the unafflicted people around me that something was wrong, and it was at that point when I began to leave old friends behind and make new non-abusive ones.

Hope that what I said helps.

Mark

_________________________
"We stay here, we die here. We've got to keep moving". Trucker Mark



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#234736 - 06/30/08 07:42 PM Re: bdsm? [Re: Trucker51]
blueshift Offline
Guest

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 1242
Loc: infinity
Originally Posted By: Trucker51



Any speculation how these guys were different or any labels?

Mark


If by "different" you mean different from someone into bdsm, then you answered your own question:

Originally Posted By: Trucker51


There was no consent or safe word involved as I was restrained and gagged at the point of a weapon.


As for labels, I just like to call them assholes but if you want something more clinical, I'm sure sociopathic sadist works too.

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#234741 - 06/30/08 08:01 PM Re: bdsm? [Re: Trucker51]
blueshift Offline
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Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 1242
Loc: infinity
Originally Posted By: Trucker51
Someone else said that we keep replaying the events in our minds and seek out relationships where we are abused again, in order to validate our abuse or prove to ourselves that it actually happened.

Mark


There might be something to that! I don't really know what my unconscious motives were but in looking for someone to play bdsm with I somehow I managed to find two people in a row who tend to get carried away with the sadism. I'm determined that there won't be a third. I've wondered if I'm seeking to relive my abuse to feel somehow closer to the person I was before the abuse. I don't know if that makes any sense, but that's how it seems to me sometimes.

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#234773 - 06/30/08 09:10 PM Re: bdsm? [Re: blueshift]
Trucker51 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/20/08
Posts: 2826
Loc: Denver, CO
I wasn't looking for it, but it found me, back when I was 22 to 24. A close friend who was a year younger and also fairly isolated, revealed that he had been raped and sexually abused several times as a teenager, and later propositioned me under the influence of IV cocaine, (an addiction that he and his brother introduced me to). It seemed like we both wanted the same thing. We both got to play abuser and victim alternately. Eight months after he broke it off in 1982 he killed himself of an overdose. It was a good study in how to lose a close friend.

Mark

_________________________
"We stay here, we die here. We've got to keep moving". Trucker Mark



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#238813 - 07/18/08 04:41 PM Re: bdsm? [Re: Trucker51]
blueshift Offline
Guest

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 1242
Loc: infinity
Trucker, I may be misreading this but, your last statement here seemed to indicate that you feel you were complicit somehow in friend's demise. If that's the case,---just based on what you stated here, I would have to strongly disagree. I can see no connection at all between anything you did with him and his fatal overdose.
Even if you feel his self destruction was in some way a reaction to some aspect of your involvement with him, you still had no way of knowing he would react that way. If anyone should feel responsible at all I would say it would be the one who abused him who set him on his course of self destruction.

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