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#235066 - 07/01/08 08:40 PM Re: Survivors and closure in relationships [Re: indygal]
Liv2124 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/06
Posts: 159
Loc: New Jersey
If his life DEPENDED ON IT, I guarantee you, he couldn't tell you what my emotional needs actually are. I've spent the better part of my life, meeting my own.
Liv


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#235214 - 07/02/08 05:47 AM Re: Survivors and closure in relationships [Re: Liv2124]
indygal Offline
Member

Registered: 06/22/06
Posts: 439
Liv,

I'm sorry to hear this; I think what saddens me is how little effort I think was being made on his part to get to know me, who I am, what I'm about.

That is, it was obvious he did recall my likes and dislikes, things of that nature, but it was more he studied me, listened to what I said or read what I wrote, rather than ask me about myself. It's his way of a lot of things, indirect vs. direct. maybe that's a survivor trait?

I'm a pretty direct person myself and it somehow just didn't jive with my view of the world; I understand some situations where observation and assumption are necessary but I also believe in getting down to the nitty gritty and direct questioning - if you want to know about someone or something, you ask them.

That seemed impossible for him. Just as impossible was for him to actually have an honest to goodness adult conversation about our relationship without it erupting into an argument. I tried so many times, please, let us be civil to one another, we're adults, he couldn't do it. I don't honestly know if he tried, and how he felt about it, but I do know it just seemed impossible for us to discuss personal matters together.

Those of you who are thinking about ending a relationship, please don't discount what you have together if you do, indeed, have something positive. We did, but it was lost after I learned about his csa. He couldn't deal with it, with me knowing, it threatened his entire being and state of mind which is in a rigid state of denial and self-preservation that perhaps might never change.

I said it before, I meant it - if he'd been working on recovery, things would have been different. Also we don't live together, are not married, or anything. We already have separate lives.

As old as he is he still couldn't plan a future for himself, for anyone. He couldn't see past the day, or sometimes a few days.

Me, I'm very goal oriented, constantly evaluating myself and personal goals, projects, etc. To not be able to project an outcome from our relationship, even a tentative one, just kept causing me more stress than I want or need. Some people can do that, I can't.

I do however, believe if we had been able to work things out I still would have worked hard to have kept a semblance of a separate life going on for myself while he worked on his issues. I think that's tantamount to surviving in a relationship with a survivor and if, by chance I meet another one, I think I'll be better prepared to deal with the uncertainties, tho who knows??

thanks as always to those of you who have commented, I'm feeling much better since I made this post. it's hard, it will always be hard, but I do feel like I'm going the right way these days.

Indy

_________________________
my avatar is one of the Battle Angel characters, fighting the good fight.

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#235366 - 07/02/08 10:18 PM Re: Survivors and closure in relationships [Re: indygal]
Liv2124 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/06
Posts: 159
Loc: New Jersey
Indy,
I hear what you're saying. I do believe it's a trait, the observation.
My SO knew ALOT about what I liked, and didn't like. When he was living here, he was tuned in to my menstral cycle of all things, and would come home from work with chocolate covered strawberries and champagne. (Cramps and cravings)
He just couldn't deal with the emotional stuff.
I'm a very direct person. There were ALOT of arguments, not over what I said, but over the fact that I actually said it OUT LOUD. (Then, of course, came the arguments over the CONTENT of what I said.)
I laughed out loud when you mentioned the "questioning..." There came a point when I would ask him, "Are you going to tell me what's bothering you? Or do I have to drag it out of you with alot of extremely intense, very uncomfortable questions, you're gonna hate?"
I believe that if he were working on recovery, I wouldn't even be here.
Always,
Liv


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#235533 - 07/03/08 05:20 PM Re: Survivors and closure in relationships [Re: Liv2124]
NY Daisy Offline
New Here

Registered: 02/29/08
Posts: 183
Dear all, I agree with everything you all have said. My H knows all my likes, and dislikes when it comes to food or colors ect.. He also goes as far to say that he knows me better than I know myself. I cannot say the same. Everytime I think I know what his favorite food is, or color, it changes, he'll swear he never told me that,and then will tell me that after all these years I still don't know him at all. I always feel like he does it purposely, to keep me confused. It is then something else he can use against me ( I get the,"if you loved me, you would know what I like" thing)
I am at a point in my relationship with my H that a decision needs to be made. I can no longer go on the way it is. We are in therapy together,before our first appointment he warned me that this was not going to be about his abuse, he is fine and all the problems stem from me being an overall bad spouse, I am not really good at anything, he feels he is in this marriage alone. I have asked him if you have such disdain for me, why are you here? He says he loves me. I asked him how can you love somone when yousay you hate everything they are? He has no answer.
My H cannot or will not acknowledge my feelings about anything. He said I am emotionally and mentally abusing him when I try even bring up the SA, or my feelings about how he has treated me. It is so hard. Like you ladies I like to put everything out there, I like to work it out, so we can move on. I am so tired of sweeping everything under the rug. My H says none of this is any of my business. At therapy yesterday the T asked my H why he even bothered to tell me about it in the first place, and my H's response was because he wanted to tell his sisters, so they could protect their kids. That hurt. Maybe I am wrong, but I have always felt that if he could have told his family without telling me he would, and yesterday he confirmed it.
I now wonder if my feelings don't matter on this subject because he never saw how it effected me at all. NY DAISY


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#235618 - 07/03/08 09:55 PM Re: Survivors and closure in relationships [Re: NY Daisy]
Liv2124 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/06
Posts: 159
Loc: New Jersey
NY DAISY,
My thoughts go out to you... I wish I could say more, but a line in your post muted me to a degree.

Nothing can EVER be about the abuse.

Always,
Liv


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#235665 - 07/04/08 01:04 AM Re: Survivors and closure in relationships [Re: Liv2124]
NY Daisy Offline
New Here

Registered: 02/29/08
Posts: 183
Dear all,
I just reread my post, and it kind of sounded like I didn't think it was important for him to tell his sisters. I wanted all the kids in the family protected.(his older brother was the perp) it was hurtful to me because for a year and a half before he told me, he treated me with so much hatred. Nothing I did was right. i was damned if I did and damned if I didn't.
Tonight when he came home I tried to talk to him about my feelings. I tried to explain to him that I was hurt that I never entered the equation, not me , our kids, or my feelings. I also asked if he had ever regretted telling. His answer was of course yes. I asked him why? He said because he lost everything important to him. WHAT? He said it took away his sisters and his parents and left him with nothing. What about me? What about our Kids?(Everyone in his family turned their backs on him) He doesn't see that this is the problem I have. I asked him did he ever thinks about what he would have lost, had he never told? He seemed geniunely bewildered. "What would I have lost?" ME, YOUR 4KIDS. I was pregnant while he was wrestling with his demons the first time, and mistreating me. Since I did not know Why, I was preparing to leave after the baby was born. I even said so again yesterday in therapy, that I would have left. He said "what are you talking about?",apparently from what he told me tonight, he didn't have to think about me, I was a given. I would just be there.
I'm not even sure how to take that. I am so confused. I said to him that it was so hard, you had really put me through the ringer, and I honestly could not handle it anymore. He has no recollection of any of it. He then always says," poor, poor you. I mistreated YOU. I emotionally abuse YOU. Your problem is that if you can't make it about you, your miserable." He says he is sick of me never letting him live it down.
All I want is for him to acknowledge that I too have feelings. I did not bring this subject back up a few months ago, he did. I am just done being mistreated. I want to feel like I am important to him, that I matter. I don't feel like I do. He just will not discuss my emotions at all. I don't want to offend anyone here, and I am sorry if I do, I feel that my husband treats me like his brother(perp) treated him, like a worthless, insignificant,feelingless entity, right down to the fact that my H is pissed at me because I am not into having sex, he feels I should just do it anyway, even though I told him in therapy that I am not feeling EMOTIONALLY connected.
I will stop now. I am tired and crying. Thank you all for being here, it does help to know people can relate, and I REALLY needed to get some of that off my chest.
Warmly, NYDAISY

p.s. I really wish this site had spell check.LOL


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#235684 - 07/04/08 05:31 AM Re: Survivors and closure in relationships [Re: NY Daisy]
indygal Offline
Member

Registered: 06/22/06
Posts: 439
Daisy -

I think reading posts like yours and then having to acknowledge you are married and have been together for some years -

then I had to acknowledge how similar it sounded to my relationship - and yes, this had some bearing on my decision

it's like, if you ladies have been trying all this time, and this is how it is, and it's already like that for me and him, well, what's wrong with this picture?

maybe this has been said before, I don't know, but it's like survivors get "stuck" in their mind - part of them still are in the same mental place they were in when the abuse occured - they grow bigger, older, but part of their psyche never seems to evolve the way non-sexually-abused people do.

those of us who want to talk about our feelings, sort out the differences, we do that to organize our thoughts, our partners thoughts, the things we do and try and find a semblance of unity and balance in our interactions to one another.

Survivors appear not to always know balance, or equilibrium only discourse, disconnected thoughts and feelings, a disenfranchisement, if you will, from humanity even.

they don't know how to fine balance and don't understand that's what we are trying to do and only seek for both of us to feel better about our relationship.

I'm so sorry he's not acknowledging your feelings; this is tantamount to going forward in a relationship of any kind. We have to understand and accept each other's emotions to some degree, no matter how small. To dismiss them as trivial, or unimportant or imagined is tantamount to dismissing us as the whole human beings we are.

but again, this is learned behavior.

I told a friend about all this and she commented I must feel "empowered" over having brought things to a finality.

No, I don't. I feel sad, depressed and angry it had to be this way.

I also feel cheated - the abuser(s) won. They did this. It's not fair.

Indy




_________________________
my avatar is one of the Battle Angel characters, fighting the good fight.

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#235732 - 07/04/08 11:18 AM Re: Survivors and closure in relationships [Re: NY Daisy]
Liv2124 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/06
Posts: 159
Loc: New Jersey
NY Daisy,
I read your post and can totally relate to the dynamic, since over the years, I've become "a given" myself.
You see him and know him as he really is, and you love him anyway. For some reason, they see this as license not to try anymore. They don't have to. You're gonna be there.
I've watched him, over and over, try to please other people. He's a different person with other people. I've always wondered what he gets out of it. What good is it if someone likes you, when you're putting forth a fascade to make it happen?
We've had multiple arguments that have ended with his telling me, "Not everything is about YOU!" (Many of which are posted on this site \:\) ) I will agree that the abuse is "his thing" but being close with him means that alot of the effects spill into my life as well. This is what he doesn't seem to get. Feelings are relatively foreign to him, be they mine or his own. He's good with gifts, but after all this time, I don't need anymore souveniors.
Not having spoken to him since the "party blow-off", the last time in a limited series of times when I've asked that he do something for me just because... I've started composing a letter to him in an attempt to, yet again, thrust my emotions in his face.
This is aggravating to say the least, because I was determined not to lose him to this, and it does seem now, like the abuser(s) are winning. And the winner takes it all.
Always,
Liv


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#235811 - 07/04/08 04:00 PM Re: Survivors and closure in relationships [Re: Liv2124]
NY Daisy Offline
New Here

Registered: 02/29/08
Posts: 183
Dear Indy & Liv, it is amazing that all of our stories are so similar. It is so obvious that this issue effects the men and everyone around them. The problem that I see is that we see it, they can't or won't. You can't help someone who won't help themselves. Our hands are tired. We must now do what is best for us. I go to bed every night and pray that I will wake up and my H will tell me that he gets it. That he acknowledges me as a person. I can't help but think of how many times he went to bed as a child wishing that someone,anyone would see him. That breaks my heart.
My H is just like your BF. He too will go out of his way for other people. He is so helpful, and everyone loves him. They always tell me how lucky I am to have someone like him. It is all a scam. He too puts on a really big show for others. Since I didn't know about the abuse until 5 years after our marriage, I have at times wondered, if his "wooing" of me wasn't real, how much of that was sincere. I'll never know. He says I am a horrible excuse for a human being, then says I LOVE YOU.
I've written my H many e-mails over the years, I know he read them, HE HAS NEVER RESPONDED to any of them. THe last one I wrote a couple of weeks ago, I explained that I was not going to take his disrespect of me. I told him I knew what he was doing and it wasn't going to work. YADA, YADA, YADA, any way he read it, I asked him when we would discuss it or if he would write me back. His answer, I will when I have a chance. I am busy. 3months later I am still waiting. After our first therapy session, he wrote me an e-mail asking mee if we could just forget everything and start again. I read it, and didn't respond. He was beside himself. Did you get my e-mail? did you read it? Well? Well? are you sure you got it? I calmly told him I would respond when I had time and I wasn't so busy. He did not talk to me for days.
Now I write e-mails to myself I get it all of my chest,I have it journaled so when he tells me I don't know what I am talking about, I can go back and know I am not losing my mind, and it keeps an argument from happening. Do any of you journal your thoughts?
It is sad to know the abusers are winning. I have come to realize there is nothing more I can do. I am not even sure losing me would make a difference. In his mind I am the enemy, I have harmed him, and most importantly I would have had to mattered in the first place, and I don't think that I did.
I will be thinking of you all, have a good 4th, NYDAISY



Edited by NY Daisy (07/04/08 04:02 PM)

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#235827 - 07/04/08 06:35 PM Re: Survivors and closure in relationships [Re: NY Daisy]
Liv2124 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/06
Posts: 159
Loc: New Jersey

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