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#231907 - 06/19/08 02:14 PM Disclosure Was a Mistake
Still Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6422
Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
The following is from the Members-Only side of the site, thus I've eliminated names from quotes.

I'm offering an alternte perspective on disclosure because my experience is not only dramatically BAD but also true. Survivors and secondaries ought to consider this entirely contrary view of mine:
_______________________________________________________________________

Originally Posted By: Annon1
Rob, hey - long time no see. I am sorry to see you needed to delete your posts on this thread. But I wanted to add 2 cents.

For me disclosure has been a very mixed bag. Goes well with some and very badly with others. At least one friend I told in confidence slipped up and told another friend who I don't trust. I have since been informed that "everyone" in our friend group knows.

It sucks. But then why should it matter I guess. Here's hoping things get easier for you man.


As I recall, the deleted post described the absolute and complete folly realized via my disclosure. My life was SO much better pre-disclosure. Post disclosure, I've lost, or am losing everything good in my life. My life is going straight down the drain. "Why" you ask:

It is my position that non-CSA survivors cannot even begin to comprehend any aspect of what we deal with or experienced without their reactions and views defaulting to the current myths. We will NEVER dis-lodge the myths from the "normals." We will never (in our lifetime) be able to override and/or educate the "normals" with our reality - with the realities of abuse, power, manipulation, etc. To do so would require an element of education formed in grade-school and continued into High School. The "normals" have a firmly-installed library of misunderstanding and cliche reaction that only serves to further damage us on a grand scale. And Yes, I FULLY believe this to be true.

CASE IN POINT:


Originally Posted By: Annon2
Disclosing to my mom .... My mom demanded that I tell her. Mom's reaction to my discloser wasn't what I was hoping for. Among other things she asked me if any of my abuse was consensual !


I realize there are those that believe disclosure is healing, empowering and generally positive. I however have found it to be only slightly better than jumping from a tall building.

_________________________
This nation has lost its mind!

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The Water Buffalo Song

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#231910 - 06/19/08 02:41 PM Re: Disclosure Was a Mistake [Re: Still]
Justintime1 Offline


Registered: 06/19/08
Posts: 16
I like how you say its slightly better then jumping from a tall building. thats funny. I never told anyone anything before until last week when i told my friend and at first he made a joke then a day later he made some rude comment about it, so like you say, they cant understand like my friend cant understand. so, im with you on that, i dont think ill be telling anyone else ever.


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#231921 - 06/19/08 03:39 PM Re: Disclosure Was a Mistake [Re: Justintime1]
Trish4850 Offline
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MaleSurvivor<

Registered: 10/15/05
Posts: 3280
Loc: New Jersey
What happened for you was bad Rob, I know that. When I think of what you're going through, it makes me sad and I so wish I could make it all better. I can't of course, but I wish I could.

That being said, I disagree with your position that disclosure is a mistake. That's a blanket statement that just doesn't fly, besides, it's not the disclosure itself, it's who hears it. I have so much to say on this subject but I just can't right now. I'll be on later tonight though and I'll post more.

ROCK ON........Trish

_________________________
If you fall down 10 times, Stand up 11.

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#231967 - 06/19/08 07:47 PM Re: Disclosure Was a Mistake [Re: Trish4850]
Still Offline
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CASE IN POINT 2

Even the "enlightened" don't get it right.

Originally Posted By: Trish4850
Quote:
I remember when my H said he was abused and dealt with it, the therapist made a comment how people make a big deal about it, and keep it going well after it's been dealt with.


OK, that's the most absurd, unprofessional thing I've heard yet. I revise my first thoughts on this - sound to me like the guy is an ass who won't be of any use to either of you.

ROCK ON......Trish



Trish,

Allow me to flesh-out my position a bit further.

You say:

Originally Posted By: Trish4850
... it's not the disclosure itself, it's who hears it.


True, but we disclose to people. Someone has to be in the forest in order to hear the tree fall.

Now, many of us feel licensed to disclose in today's society as a result of recent publicity surrounding certain cases (catholics and such). Just because some very brave souls spoke-up and called offenders out, an enlightened public is not a defacto product.

CSA victims remained deathly silent for a very long time. This modern era is a unique one in that CSA victims are all of a sudden encouraged to disclose. A perceived license to disclose does not at all mean that we will be speaking/disclosing to a magically enlightened person. Are we actually expecting people to be able to respond properly just because they've heard a lot about the Father Porter case on the evenong news?

I think there are very good reasons behind the fact that throughout human existense the subject has been swept under the rug and/or never discussed. I believe the most compelling reason is that people are just not capable of handling it properly.

So is the variable I'm missing a matter of WHO we disclose to? Well, there is one MS Member who disclosed to his mother when he was about 12 years-old. He immeiate reaction was to blurt out "you let them do what???"

Isn't ones mother a likely candidate to whom we disclose? Look what happened to this poor guy.

So we disclose to District Attorneys (people) who may bring the case to a court/jury (more poeple).

So that's more of my position. It has little to do with my circumstances.

_________________________
This nation has lost its mind!

The Aftermath Video

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#231977 - 06/19/08 08:11 PM Re: Disclosure Was a Mistake [Re: Still]
testingWaters Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/19/06
Posts: 508
I often feel like you are taking on a defiantly angry, nihilistic point of view about the world and your life and that you are sharing it here because you want other people to comfort you and, more importantly, to acknowledge your pain and your suffering as real and valid.

So I want you to know this: I hear you and I know how much you suffer and I am sorry that you do. It's not fair. I wish I could change it for you.

But unless you want to let your life go down the drain, someday you will have to take responsibility for comforting yourself, witnessing your own pain and being willing to consider that rigid beliefs like the ones expressed here become self-fulfilling prophecies.

And if you feel like that is beyond your control, consider it a giant red flag - we all are entitled to having determination about our life going down the drain.

Come on man. You deserve much more kindness than you are allowing yourself.


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#231979 - 06/19/08 08:18 PM Re: Disclosure Was a Mistake [Re: testingWaters]
Still Offline
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Originally Posted By: testingWaters
I often feel like you are taking on a defiantly angry, nihilistic point of view about the world and your life ...


Oh yes...I know you are correct there. It has been true since February 1968. Until I see evidense otherwise, I'll maintain my position.

I'm truly not seeking comfort or validation. My intent with the post was to warn drifters passing through town that Disclosureville may not be what they expected.

_________________________
This nation has lost its mind!

The Aftermath Video

The Water Buffalo Song

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#231995 - 06/19/08 09:10 PM Re: Disclosure Was a Mistake [Re: Still]
Trish4850 Offline
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Ahh yes, the dreaded people. I've heard that before, many, many times before. It's been said to me as you are saying it here Robbie, like people is a dirty word. But you know what, there's no way around it; we're all people. Some good, some bad, some stupid. Some are ignorant for life, some are ignorant of a subject, but willing to learn. That's the category I fall into. I was completely ignorant of csa. I said wrong things when my b/f first disclosed, some of those things were hurtful, not that I meant them that way, but repeating them in my own mind now, I cringe and shudder to think what those stupid words must have done to him.

Yes, disclosure can go horribly wrong, especially when you disclose to a person you believe will be there for you and then they fail, but itís their failure, not yours. When a survivor discloses he opens the opportunity (1) for himself to begin or continue healing and (2) to educate the ignorant, but educatable person who loves and cares for him.

The pitfalls of disclosure are there, they should be discussed and prepared for. Yelling a disclosure from the mountain tops may not be a good idea, but continuing to suffer in silence definitely is NOT.

Below is a quote from a post I started on March 23, 2006. I didnít want to post this because I wanted to say everything I said there in this new post, but Iím too damn lazy right now, so this is the best I can do. It talks about the fears of this ignorant person.

Quote:
Before my b/f told me of the csa, I knew that he had been physically abused and that concerned me. You always hear about ďbreaking the chain of abuseĒ which leads you to believe that the abused will be an abuser. I thought long and hard about it over several weeks. I became more aware of his interaction with me, our friends and my family. Nothing in his behavior indicated that he would abuse or hurt another human being. My fears were unfounded and forgotten.

Several years into our relationship, he disclosed the csa. At that time, my daughter was about 15 years old. My thoughts again went back to everything Iíd read in the paper or seen on the news - the horror stories, the trials where the defense counsel would bring up mitigating circumstances, specifically that the defendant had been abused. I pride myself on accepting or not accepting people for how they act with me and mine, not whatís in their past. So why was I worried? Because I just didnít know and because I had not only me, but my child to worry about. Her safety and well-being depended on me and if I made a wrong decision, the ramifications would be devastating.

I loved and still love my b/f very much so I decided to learn. I knew in my heart that the idea of harming a child was as repugnant to him as it is to me, but I still needed to calm my own irrational fears.. This site and several others taught me that much more often than not, an abused child becomes a hurt adult and that hurt adult would never inflict that same hurt on another.

Today, Iím ashamed of my earlier feelings, but in my heart, I know they werenít malicious in any way and I believe that my concerns as a person uneducated and ignorant of csa were to be expected. Again, Iím ashamed of that now, but I just didnít know any better.

I felt so much pain because of the pain my b/f was in. I believed him, I hurt for him, I was angry for him, but when the dust settled, I was still stupid and I had to make that stupidity go away before I could be anything good for him or me.

Men, as if you donít have enough to deal with, Iím afraid that you also have to deal with an ignorant population, of which the person/people you choose to disclose to may be card carrying members. Thatís not to say we intend to stay that way, but when faced with a foreign fact, it takes time for the depth of that fact to sink in, be absorbed and dealt with.


ROCK ON........Trish

_________________________
If you fall down 10 times, Stand up 11.

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#232034 - 06/19/08 11:19 PM Re: Disclosure Was a Mistake [Re: Still]
evanescentjoy Offline
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Registered: 12/28/05
Posts: 46
Hello Robbie,

I'm so sorry to hear that disclosure went so badly for you and for so many others.

I think a big part of it is letting the right people into your innermost circle. Part of that is developing a good sense of boundaries... Something that, unfortunately, was destroyed via the abuse.

I also have let the wrong people into my inner circle. Perhaps it may comfort you to know that sometimes, even those who seem to betray us with their initial reactions and responses later come around and realize their mistakes. Humans are flawed. And most people are either too selfish and insensitive or have not themselves come to terms with their own past hurts to acknowledge the pain of others.

I believe that true compassion is a learned virtue... One that perhaps can only be learned via strife. And not everyone becomes truly compassionate. Also, just because a person has not experienced the exact same hurts that you have does not mean that they cannot be compassionate to your experience.

I hope that your adverse experiences will not stop you from reaching out in the future. Someday, the right individual(s) will step into your life and prove "Disclosure Was a Mistake" wrong. But it will take a calculated risk.

_________________________
"Become who you are." -Nietzsche

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#232041 - 06/19/08 11:33 PM Re: Disclosure Was a Mistake [Re: evanescentjoy]
testingWaters Offline
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Registered: 07/19/06
Posts: 508
But Rob, what I was trying to say is this - you should be seeking comfort and validation. You deserve it and that is not a bad thing. Unless you are somehow different than every other person on this planet, you NEED it as much as you need food. But until you are willing to be ok with needing it, how are you ever going to learn to see it as your right? No matter how fucked up the world is. Or how much ugliness.

I am going to stay away from this thread now because you don't seem to make the connection - you are telling us that you see there is "no evidence" that the world (or even just your own world) is not all bad. BUT you are saying this to a whole bunch of people who are offering you our time and energy and concern for you. Does our time and concern not represent a reason, in and of itself, to be less nihilistic?

This may come off rudely or otherwise wrong and I am sorry if it does. Love TW




Edited by testingWaters (06/19/08 11:33 PM)

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#232059 - 06/20/08 12:54 AM Re: Disclosure Was a Mistake [Re: testingWaters]
Still Offline
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Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6422
Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
I guess at the very root of it all is that I see an "us and them" dynamic...and they have continued to hurt me, you, us.

In grade-school they accused me of being "too sensitive for this world." I, however thought the world was dreadfully evil, scary and disappointing.

As I grew stronger they accused me of being too mean and hard...too jaded...too angry...too volatile. I, however knew that I had to wear armor and carry a sword...that evil abounds...that ignorance and self-centeredness of others will only serve to hurt me if I get too close.

So along comes weak-boy in 2006...trusting them...disclosing to them.

Some say "you wouldn't hide the fact that you were in a car accident as a kid...and you ought to treat your CSA similarly...to not be ashamed of it...to not silence it." Well, they never fault you for being in the car accident. They can relate to a car accident. Shit, anyone can end up in a car accident; especially a kid-passenger. Yup, when it comes to car accidents...they donít judge...they donít rely on myths as a basis of reaction.

CSA however carries with it way too much for the normals to handle. They have had the myths pounded into their skulls for years and years. Thus, the "us and them" dynamic is born.

There once were these T shirts that said "Its a Black-thing...you wouldnít understand."

Its a CSA thing...you wouldnít understand....and they don't.




Edited by Robbie Brown (06/20/08 05:13 AM)
_________________________
This nation has lost its mind!

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#232238 - 06/20/08 03:34 PM Re: Disclosure Was a Mistake [Re: Still]
evanescentjoy Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/28/05
Posts: 46
"Focus on others; as you spend time getting to know others you will love them. You cannot help it. People are amazing. However, the minute you begin focusing on yourself you will be miserable. You will hate yourself: people are not perfect. Do not be ashamed to love--and hurt. With the love, comes pain, but "you learn, my God, you learn." --(C.S. Lewis)

Part of it lies in one's thinking.

Many who are survivors of abuse tend to have black & white thinking (including myself), a symptom of Borderline Personality Disorder. I'm working on my own twisted thought processes. I hope that you find healing in mind, body, and spirit, too.

Love,
EJ

_________________________
"Become who you are." -Nietzsche

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#232281 - 06/20/08 09:02 PM Re: Disclosure Was a Mistake [Re: Still]
Liv2124 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/06
Posts: 159
Loc: New Jersey
Dear Rob,
I sorry your disclosure went badly. And not knowing you, nor those you chose to disclose to, I can't comment on how things could've gone that way. From my position, I can't even imagine.
When my SO disclosed, it explained alot, and I'll admit that I felt ashamed for not seeing it for what it was, All the signs were there.
Other than this site, and a couple of therapists I've spoken to, I've never discussed what my SO told me with anyone, not even his brother who I've been fairly close to and recently came out with statements that lead me to believe it's happened to him as well. I don't believe in lies and I don't believe in secrets, but I do have respect for a certain amount of classified information between two people.
My SO reacted badly after his disclosure. He believed that I HAD to feel differently about him once I "knew". The truth is, the way I see it, the abuse was never about him. There was nothing about him and nothing he did that made it happen.
I hear what your saying when you refer to "normals". But I refuse to give up hope.
As someone who has been involved with a survivor for a LONG time...
Even after he disclosed, he was the same man I fell in love with and continue to love. When he asked for "a way out of this" and a "way to make it all stop", I found the best therapist I could and got him there. Something spooked him. He hasn't been back. I can't make him go. But I don't love him any less. I can't speak for him. Maybe he thinks I look at him differently now, but I have to tell you, I don't. This was NEVER about him.
His reaction following disclosure (which was, 16 years ago) has been passive-aggressive. He'll avoid the subject at times, and other times blurt things out to me from the perspective that I "know." The biggest issue that comes to the table now are the effects which have become incapacitating to him at this point. He thinks he's going crazy. I know he's not. He always comes back to me.
I'm sorry disclosure has gone so badly for you and so many other men. All I can say is that, you are not responsible for what happened to you, and you are not responsible for the reactions of un-informed, un-educated people.
In life, you don't have to read minds, if you can learn to read people.
Always,
Liv

P.S. On the subject of "the People". My SO quotes them ALL the time. My question is always the same, "Who are these people and where do they get their information?" "Do these people REALLY matter?" He's harder on me than the people, because I'm closer to him. I have to "prove" myself over and over again.
There are "arguments" to be made for both sides here, the survivors and those who love and are committed to them. There are "adjustments" we readily make and "rules" we live by.




Edited by Liv2124 (06/20/08 09:19 PM)

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#232439 - 06/21/08 03:56 PM Re: Disclosure Was a Mistake [Re: Liv2124]
Still Offline
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Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6422
Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
Can we maybe settle on the following statement:

DISCLOSURE IS RISKY?



Edited by Robbie Brown (06/21/08 04:56 PM)
_________________________
This nation has lost its mind!

The Aftermath Video

The Water Buffalo Song

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#232442 - 06/21/08 04:28 PM Re: Disclosure Was a Mistake [Re: Still]
Barkabus Offline
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Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 809
Yes, disclosure IS risk.

It takes courage to disclose. But we have to take that risk in order to progress with our recovery. The alternative is to embrace brokenness, denial and paranoia. I've had disclosures that went bad. Robbie, you've quoted me on one of them and I'm still reeling from my mom's reaction. I had another disclosure this week that didn't go well. I'm not done disclosing though. The benefit from disclosing to those that do still love you and support you even though they may not completely understand CSA far out weigh the alternative.

It isn't "us" and "them". There is no such thing as "normals". ALL people are broken in one capacity or another, some more severe than others. In the same way that our CSA is so often misunderstood and wrongly stigmatized, so too, we are just as apt to misunderstand others to. Part of our burden is to help bring a right understanding of our pain and the effects we suffer to a world that has been feed incorrect information. It is also our burden to seek to understand others as well.

Robbie, I'm glad you are talking about this.

Mike

_________________________
My Story

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#232461 - 06/21/08 09:10 PM Re: Disclosure Was a Mistake [Re: Barkabus]
Trish4850 Offline
BoD Liaison Emeritus
MaleSurvivor<

Registered: 10/15/05
Posts: 3280
Loc: New Jersey
Ok Robbie - we definitely agree on that one. Disclosure is risky. It's also scary as hell for the one disclosing and for the one hearing it, but it can make all the difference in the world.

ROCK ON........Trish

_________________________
If you fall down 10 times, Stand up 11.

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#232542 - 06/22/08 10:35 AM Re: Disclosure Was a Mistake [Re: Trish4850]
Liv2124 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/06
Posts: 159
Loc: New Jersey
Hi Rob,
I'll agree disclosure is risky. I don't think anyone could disagree with that. No one has control over what another person will do with information we share with them in confidence. But I believe that people's reactions and behavior (such as turning around and making someone else's personal information public) speaks volumes about themselves as human beings.
It reminds me of something my father used to tell me about people when I was growing up. He always said, "Sometimes you just have to consider the source and chalk it up to ignorance."
Always,
Liv


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#232689 - 06/23/08 12:43 AM Re: Disclosure Was a Mistake [Re: Still]
dgoods Offline
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Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 622
Loc: Richmond area
Well, to be honest, i can understand both points of view, in a sense; i can't say i've been thrilled with the reactions i've gotten from family and others who know, but in another sense, it's been a very bumpy downhill ride for me in terms of "quality of life" since my own personal dam burst, and i no longer was able to block out or ignore what happened to me, or how far-reaching the effects of it have been through the years. I went from:
(A)being engaged, having a decent-paying job where i was liked and respected, having a healthy circle of friends and acquaintances, and generally believing i might've finally gotten enough positive momentum going that a minor bout of depression or other negative circumstances wouldn't completely derail me- to:
(B)living on my own, being borderline agoraphobic and surviving on my withdrawn retirement fund, witnessing "friends" dry up and blow away as soon as i had no emotional, intellectual or financial resources to offer, family members reacting with barely masked discomfort and/or unconscious minimizing and denying, and just recently having had to stop drinking again after relapsing (having progressed quickly to 2 twelve-packs a day), as well as the usual anxiety, depression, anger, all that fun stuff.
So for me, it hasn't been so much hard disclosing to others(though easy or thrilling it's never been); it's been not being able to lie to mySELF anymore that's proved the real butt-kicker.
However- i honestly believe that the dam was going to break sooner or later, and though i'm not tickled pink by the timing, i'd rather not imagine what might've been, had i gone further down the "everything's just fine" road, and had far more to lose... as far as "people" go? Sure, i can't help but be disappointed and disgusted at times, but rationally speaking, i can't deny there've been times where i was confronted with a situation where i felt inwardly helpless and/or uncomfortable, and did or said the wrong thing; it's not as though i've only ever been on one side of that coin. Sure, i'd love to still think i'm capable of sustaining things like a healthy romantic relationship or a well-kept appartment, or that i'm always more perceptive than the other blind fools, rather than seeing things that just aren't there, or any number of things that for the moment just aren't true. I can curse my circumstances all i want, but my circumstances remain unimpressed with my efforts. All i can do is try to look at anything or anyone in my life and ask as objectively as possible: helping, or hurting? I may be something of a vulnerable mess, but i CAN and WILL remove from my life any external situation or relationship, that hurts more than it helps. If there's one solid lesson i've taken away from hanging around here, it's that i need to do what's genuinely healthy for ME; though i might take a while to figure out exactly what that might be sometimes, once i know? SCREW what anybody else thinks or feels about it! I used to be too wrapped up in thinking survival meant telling "people" whatever would make them feel better, and leave me the hell alone. These days? Friends/family who hope for some bland reassurance when they ask me "how i'm really doing" so they can get on with talking about other, less troubling things, are in for a rude awakening.

Wow, i really went on and on there, didn't i? Oh well, guess the thread hit a nerve for me...

_________________________
Give sorrow words: the grief that does not speak
Whispers the o'er-fraught heart and bids it break.

-William Shakespeare, Macbeth, Act IV, Sc. III

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#232694 - 06/23/08 12:59 AM Re: Disclosure Was a Mistake [Re: dgoods]
Still Offline
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Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
Right then....

So as a least-common denominator we have "Discolsure is Risky."

Others might say "Disclosure Sucks."

I maintain "Disclosure Was a Mistake" (for me).

Has anyone noticed that in an effort to re-building a life consistent with societal demands, one must again learn to "tell them what they want to hear?"

"Tell them what they want to hear" was a survival tool I mastered in grade school. It never failed me. Why I chose to give it up is beyond me.

_________________________
This nation has lost its mind!

The Aftermath Video

The Water Buffalo Song

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#232720 - 06/23/08 04:18 AM Re: Disclosure Was a Mistake [Re: Still]
Trucker51 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/20/08
Posts: 2826
Loc: Denver, CO
DISCLOSURE:

LEAST RISKY to MOST RISKY:

Less risk of negative results:

1. To your therapist

2. On Male Survivor

3. To the members of your in-person group.

4. To personal friends with a known abuse history.

Greater risk of negative results:

5. Your wife.

6. Your parents

7. Other family

8. Friends of unknown background

9. Co-workers at work

10. Classmates at school

Summer, 1972: I tried telling my mother the summer that I turned 15, just three weeks after the latest and most violent incident at the hands of a two-tour Vietnam-era combat Marine. My mother flew into a rage and beat me up, for questioning the purity of her church friends. She screamed over and over that I was lying. It took me 14 years to bring up the subject again, then only with my first therapist.

Spring, 1981: I told a really close friend who I was then in a sexual relationship with. 18 months later, he broke it off. 8 months after that he killed himself of an overdose. His death still haunts me. The break-up of our relationship coincides with my loosing everything in 1982 recession.

Fall, 1986 through Summer, 1988. I told several close friends. By 1990, only one of them was still around. A few broke-off contact immediately.

Fall, 1989 After my first wife finds out through my mother, she leaves me, then abandons counseling after a few visits. We were divorced in December, 1989. She claims that she always knew that something was wrong with me.

Summer to Fall, 1990 Lost everything in recession. The decline was very rapid as I was very depressed and had no support.

Spring, 1991 The sole surviving friend that I had told suffers brain damage while trying to detox off of methadone. His BAC was over .30 when he took a bad slip and fall, and had to have brain surgery. Has been permanently institutionalized in a no-contact facility.

So, now I am down to my mother (thanks mom) and my younger sister, who is also a survivor. At least my younger sister has been consistent in her support. All of the friends that I told are gone, dead, or as good as dead. In the late 90s, I told a couple of drug abuse groups and still have occasional support from there. I had several CSA support groups and haven't heard from any of them since 6-7 years ago. And I finally told another long-term friend who had already come-out with a physically abusive childhood 12 years ago. He is still supportive. My current wife was told a cursory overview 18 months ago, and is now becoming more supportive.

Except for my 18 months in therapy in the mid 1980s, disclosure between 1972 and 1996 was only successful once out of nearly 10 tries. One of those tries came back to haunt me repeatedly, as did my ex-wife after she found out. She was still trying to hurt me with what she knew just 2 years ago.

This is why I always urge caution with disclosure. You need to learn good coping skills and have plenty of support to fall back onto just in case. Certainly I am happy for a couple of our younger members who have had a much different experience lately with disclosing. I would still urge caution because of my own experiences.

Mark

_________________________
"We stay here, we die here. We've got to keep moving". Trucker Mark



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#232741 - 06/23/08 09:14 AM Re: Disclosure Was a Mistake [Re: Trucker51]
Still Offline
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Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6422
Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
Wow Mark!

Truly a tough sequence of events! More evidence that regular-ol people cannot handle it. This is a great story for those considering disclosure!...especially the scale of risk.

BTW
There are some people whom I disclosed to that I just dont "get." I dont get their reactions.

Earlier this year I disclosed to a friend I considered to be closer than a brother. The reaction was total and continued silence. It hurts. Its not life-shattering like some bad disclosures....but it hurts.



Edited by Robbie Brown (06/23/08 12:10 PM)
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#232763 - 06/23/08 12:58 PM Re: Disclosure Was a Mistake [Re: Still]
Trucker51 Offline
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Rob:

Just like a few friends of mine back in the late 1980s when I first started therapy. I never saw them again. And I still have to wonder why.

I am out the door to a medical appointment. I would be able to discuss it further a little later in the day.

Keep your head up Rob. I can't explain entirely why people react how they do. I do know that there are plenty of different ways that people react though. That is why I always advocate caution in certain situations.

Mark

_________________________
"We stay here, we die here. We've got to keep moving". Trucker Mark



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#233261 - 06/24/08 09:02 PM Re: Disclosure Was a Mistake [Re: Trucker51]
Liv2124 Offline
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Loc: New Jersey
Rob,
To tell someone you're close to may be risky, but to not tell them just feeds into the secrecy and isolation no one is truly comfortable living with.
Always,
Liv


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#233283 - 06/24/08 09:44 PM Re: Disclosure Was a Mistake [Re: Liv2124]
Still Offline
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But think about it....

Are we right in our current views of disclosure just because we think of ourselves (as a society) as enlightened and so darned progressive? Thus, we can disclose the previously un-disclosable?

It seems to me that survivors were handed a societal license to disclose, yet the broad society has no clue what to do once we use that license.

I'm leaning toward the "not ever disclosing" end of the continuum. Its too late for me...but I can't really say I would ever recommend disclosure to anyone other than a child/minor.

Society seems to be able to handle children and minors/teens disclosing because the perp's power, influence, deception, etc are clear(er) to anyone hearing about it. Once you are an adult and speaking of old CSA, people screw-up their reactions nearly universally.

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#233473 - 06/25/08 01:02 PM Re: Disclosure Was a Mistake [Re: Still]
Liv2124 Offline
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Society is lightyears behind what I would consider to be "enlightenment" when it comes to this as well as countless other things. I apologize that my responses were based on situations of a smaller scale.

From a relationship standpoint, I can't imagine a close relationship existing without disclosure. There are too many aspects that are affected to go un-noticed, even on a day-to-day basis. And the areas that it spills into, the trust, touch, intimacy, sex... all issues and occurences that come up. To have these seem to surface out of left field with no explanation or understanding? It's hard enough knowing and having something new creep in.

Again, I'm not a survivor, I'm in a relationship with one. He chose to tell me, and from the day-to-day perspective, things improved. At least there was a reason for some of what was happening, and we were able to come up with ways to work around some of the affects. Far from perfect, a long way to go, but workable.

Regardless of what anyone says, I don't know that anyone wants to be totally alone. Everyone needs someone.


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#233573 - 06/25/08 08:48 PM Re: Disclosure Was a Mistake [Re: Liv2124]
Trish4850 Offline
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Quote:
Society seems to be able to handle children and minors/teens disclosing because the perp's power, influence, deception, etc are clear(er) to anyone hearing about it. Once you are an adult and speaking of old CSA, people screw-up their reactions nearly universally.


Robbie, I wish I could, but I can't argue with this statement. I had a disagreement with my boss today talking about a former client and her teenage son. The boy is a mess and it is 100% directly caused by the fact that our former client is a mess. I said I felt sorry for her, which I do, but she's now messing up her kid's life so my sympathy is very short lived. My boss then said that the kid causes alot of his own problems too. WTF! This boy is acting exactly like his mother taught him to act. My boss's response to that, "I give teenagers alot more responsibility than other people." To which I told him he was an idiot and went onto explain why, complete with examples and scientific reasoning (Thank you Ken). Did it make a difference? I doubt it, but that won't stop me from having the conversation again and again and again. He may not ever agree with me until or unless he's faced with a situation where he has to think about it, but think about it he will.

The children won't/can't speak up, although we all wish they would. It's up to the adults to do it for them and to write the history book on what NOT to do, for the sake of the children and to teach society at large that the effects of csa on a child don't go away just because they kid gets taller.

It's not easy Robbie, I'm in no way saying it is and no, the responsibility does not only belong to the adult who suffered as a child and suffers now. It belongs to every one of us who loves a survivor.

ROCK ON.........Trish

_________________________
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#233653 - 06/26/08 03:26 AM Re: Disclosure Was a Mistake [Re: Still]
jcf1957 Offline
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Robbie;

Some may think I'm excessively pessimistic thinking this way but I have a lot of concerns about societal indifference and trust issues. Who to disclose your past with and who not to disclose your past with. Too often in my vulnerability I've had my disclosure virtually laughed right back in my face. Even medical professionals can be so damned distant and indifferent if they hint and gesture their willingness to listen to the horrors of our past. And they almost never offer sound advice except to echo in reply (" I'm so sorry what happened to you. You have a lot on your plate don't you. Hope things get better for you. ") Perhaps their reply is genuine. But I hear it all too often. When your an adult your expected to act like one. Society as a whole rarely gives a rats ass and doesn't want to here somebody else's problems. As difficult it can be for female rape victims; society in general never thinks about male rape victims.
I've heard far too many people say (" Get Over It ")...there's far worse problems in peoples lives. This puts me back to square one. Maybe I should just shut-up about it all. Why risk my vulnerable emotions in front of an indifferent distant society ?
I often feel the same way you do Robbie. Maybe Disclosure was a Mistake. It won't be the first time, nor will it be the last but; I think my vulnerable emotions often deceive my rational thinking of how I perceive situations in life. This is only part of my challenge to my past.



Edited by jcf1957 (06/26/08 03:41 AM)
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#233659 - 06/26/08 04:03 AM Re: Disclosure Was a Mistake [Re: jcf1957]
Trucker51 Offline
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I was reading ABUSED BOYS again trying to look-up something else, and I discovered that Mic Hunter covered this topic fairly extensively almost 20 years ago writing this book, which was before a widely-available internet existed. The book grew out of his Master's Thesis.

Starting on page 114 with Telling Others about Your Abuse, he covers the issue over most of the next five pages. Skip about one page starting on page 115 with Confronting Your Offenders, and continue on with the last paragraph on page 116. Again, skip the first half of Going Public or Carrying the Message on page 118, and continue on again with the single long paragraph on page 119.

Mic lays out a bunch of reasons why someone may want to wait to disclose or even not disclose to certain people. On page 119 he goes into his reasoning for waiting until his final recovery stage, acceptance/forgiveness, to share one's story, and talks about the risks of earlier sharing.

Because of my own experience, I always advocate caution and try to out point out the risk of possible unexpected reactions. And one of the leading early CSA therapists advocates the same thing. One of his main reasons to wait is to assure some level of security in one's recovery. I say coping strategies.

Mark

_________________________
"We stay here, we die here. We've got to keep moving". Trucker Mark



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#233684 - 06/26/08 07:07 AM Re: Disclosure Was a Mistake [Re: Trucker51]
Hauser Offline
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Rob, let us not forget that all of your (current) woes are the fault of a woman that you married, a woman that is not being faithful to her vows to stay with you, in sickness and in health, for better or worse, etc. Have you forgotten this? Just thought I would offer this friendly reminder.

I don't consider her evil, per say, but I consider a shallow character who's putting her own life above the lives of her family, and, in particular, her children. Am I judging her? YES.



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#233685 - 06/26/08 07:10 AM Re: Disclosure Was a Mistake [Re: Hauser]
testingWaters Offline
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Originally Posted By: Hauser
Rob, let us not forget that all of your woes are the fault of a woman that you married, a woman that is not being faithful to her vows to stay with you, in sickness and in health, for better or worse, etc. Have you forgotten this? Just thought I would offer this friendly reminder.

I don't consider her evil, per say, but I consider a shallow character who's putting her own life above the lives of her family, and, in particular, her children. Am I judging her? YES.


[tearing my hair out because I can't say what I think about your post without getting banned]


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#233952 - 06/26/08 10:15 PM Re: Disclosure Was a Mistake [Re: Hauser]
Liv2124 Offline
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Loc: New Jersey
Can all his (I'm sorry, "WOES") be caused by one woman?

You know what, I probably SHOULDN'T respond, but ...

No one can be prepared for the effects of csa on a marraige, or a relationship and alittle latitude should be allowed in both directions.

What if you married someone, or became seriously involved with someone, and never understood this to mean that you'd never be able to touch him? That if you went out with him, public restrooms might become an issue? Sex...most of the time...forget it.
Is entering into something for better or worse, still applicable, if you've never been given the fine print?

Shallow?


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#233956 - 06/26/08 10:29 PM Re: Disclosure Was a Mistake [Re: Liv2124]
Still Offline
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Originally Posted By: Hauser
Rob, let us not forget that all of your (current) woes are the fault of a woman that you married, a woman that is not being faithful to her vows to stay with you, in sickness and in health, for better or worse, etc. Have you forgotten this? Just thought I would offer this friendly reminder.

I don't consider her evil, per say, but I consider a shallow character who's putting her own life above the lives of her family, and, in particular, her children. Am I judging her? YES.


Lorie and I HAVE gone through a ton of shit together. NONE of this is easy on her either. Who can be prepared to deal with all this being released from a spouse. Who knows what the "adequate reaction" is?

Hauser, you are certainly welcome to judge as you see fit. I'm not there with you however. Nothing (esp in marriage) is so black and white.

Originally Posted By: Liv2124
Is entering into something for better or worse, still applicable, if you've never been given the fine print?


Liv,

This is probably the best positioning of the issue I've ever seen. In this modern era of supposedly "enlightened disclosure," do we even know where the "for better or worse" stuff applies. Its old baggage that was not disclosed.

Well put Liv...and very tangible.

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#236115 - 07/05/08 04:59 PM Re: Disclosure Was a Mistake [Re: Still]
dangal Offline
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Registered: 02/09/08
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My husband kept his abuse from me our entire relationship, which is going on 2 decades now for fear I would leave him. Him keeping that from me created terrible results. His finally telling me has created healing for both him and I. It's given our relationship a chance to be healthy for the first time. I'm more in love with that man today then I ever was when he was pushing me away for reason I didn't know....

Be careful in telling everyone that telling anyone is bad.

Of course I can't "understand". It didn't happen to me, I can however try. I can be there and I can love him and if he had not told me our relationship would have ended, I had one foot out the door. Our 3 kids are better off now that he told me, our family now is doing much better.

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#236121 - 07/05/08 05:28 PM Re: Disclosure Was a Mistake [Re: dangal]
Still Offline
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Jen,

I'm glad to hear the results were so great and positive. I truly am. YOU clearly handle(d) it well. You love your husband and will see him through this. You are truly a blessing to him.

Everyone and every circumstance is different however. In my marriage, waiting 15 years was too long.

I will maintain my position that disclosure, in general, is comparable to playing with a rattlesnake. There's just no way to truly know how anyone is going to react. The vast majority of people (in my op) cannot possibly handle the news in proper manner.

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#236135 - 07/05/08 06:51 PM Re: Disclosure Was a Mistake [Re: Still]
dangal Offline
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I'm sorry things turned out so badly for you. Everyone is different that is correct. I was giving you the flip side of things, sometimes it works out better. Thanks for the kind words Rob.

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Life is to short to blend in

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#236795 - 07/08/08 01:44 PM Re: Disclosure Was a Mistake [Re: dangal]
Still Offline
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Some of you may be aware of the situation in Gloucester MA, where a large number of High School GIRLS became pregnant this past school year. That vast majority were impregnated by guys in their 20s.

I bring this up not because it was a disclosure, but it is prima-facia evidence that the public defaults to blaming the sex-abuse victim far too often.

The news of the teen pregnancies were made public and the fingure of blame and shame pointed toward the girls in the well-rehearsed manner we are all so use to.

Some of the messages I've picked up from talk radio and the papers.

"Well...those Gloucester girls have always been easy."
"How can you blame these guys?"
"Gloucester girls go looking for it."
"Welfare efforts begin early in Gloucester."
"What do you expect??? Its Gloucester!!"
"MAN...I wish I grew up in that town!...hehehehe!"

I'm sorry to say I've heard NO comments on the age difference in these cases. The news reported that one of the guys was a 27 yo and many others were in their 20s. Some girls are as young as 13.

The normals behave LIKE F**KING ANIMALS in ANY child sex abuse cases where THEY think there were ANY options open to the victim; Like "why the heck did he go back for more?"

DOUBT ME THAT THEY ACT LIKE ANIMALS???? LOOK AT THIS VIDEO OF A JULY 4 PARADE FROM THE NEIGHBORING TOWN OF BEVERLY. THERE ARE SEVERAL PARADE ENTRIES THAT MOCK THESE GIRLS IN A VERY GROTESQUE MANNER...SO WATCH ALL OF IT PLEASE IF YOU WILL. BTW: IF I WAS PRESENT FOR THIS PARADE, I'D BE IN JAIL TODAY.

Oh...and this is the area I grew up in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwlDoUSyktI

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#236797 - 07/08/08 01:59 PM Re: Disclosure Was a Mistake [Re: Still]
mogigo Offline
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Oh my god!!!! What the fuck is this. Does not compute, does not compute!!! Rob, what is this?????

Please tell me this is not hometown USA. I'm scarred for life, how are these floats in a parade?

What is going on in the good old US of A


OH MY FUCKING GOD!!!!!

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#236819 - 07/08/08 04:49 PM Re: Disclosure Was a Mistake [Re: mogigo]
Still Offline
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Yeah Mike,

That's my home turf! Ain't it special \:\) ?

Yeah...disclose to THEM. right!

Notice the children in this parade. Notice all the adults not doing shit to stop this!?!?!? These were the same f**k heads who I had to deal with all through childhood.

Imagine being one of these poor girls in Gloucester.

BTW: Boston Print and TV News Media barely touched this (most covered it not at all). Radio positions it as "may be a bit over the top."

This is from the news paper of note. I could not find this in the print version



Edited by Robbie Brown (07/08/08 05:22 PM)
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#236823 - 07/08/08 05:43 PM Re: Disclosure Was a Mistake [Re: Still]
EGL Offline
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FYI, I saw a report on Fox News about this parade this afternoon, so it has now made the national news. At least the rest of the nation will now know about it.

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#236825 - 07/08/08 05:48 PM Re: Disclosure Was a Mistake [Re: Still]
evanescentjoy Offline
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Registered: 12/28/05
Posts: 46
Hello Rob,

I am very sorry for your negative experience in disclosing.

That said, whenever we firmly insist on a certain view of the world, we will always find things to support that view and demonstrate that our view is correct.

"We don't see things as they are, we see things as we are."
-Anais Nin


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#236827 - 07/08/08 05:55 PM Re: Disclosure Was a Mistake [Re: evanescentjoy]
Still Offline
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LOL...Yeah...and sometimes we find that supporting evidence on motorized parade floats accompanied by several marching bands passing down Main Street USA.

I didnít have to do much myopic filtering to find this one.

People suck...that's all there is to it.

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#236829 - 07/08/08 06:08 PM Re: Disclosure Was a Mistake [Re: Still]
evanescentjoy Offline
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Registered: 12/28/05
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Yes, I am in full agreement with you on that one, Rob. A lot of people really suck. I didn't even want to view the post - I already know they're out there and they suck...

Search for the jems and hang on to them... They're out there...

_________________________
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#236870 - 07/08/08 10:23 PM Re: Disclosure Was a Mistake [Re: Still]
carrieann Offline


Registered: 07/08/08
Posts: 4
My husband is a CSA victim. He is suffering from conversion disorder and is paralized from the waist down (4 yrs). He doesn't remember anything. to make a very long story short I had a sort of ephiphany and confronted his older brother, He said he had sexually abused my husband along with some neigborhood boys. I have a feeling his aunt probably abused him, also. My husband has been in therapy for 4 years, with no breakthrough. I feel my husband would benifit from telling someone what has happened to him. So far I'm the only one besides his therapist who talks to him about this. How do I help him? Should i tell him details of the abuse? would that help him? Any help would be appreciated, I'm desperate!!


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#236880 - 07/08/08 11:02 PM Re: Disclosure Was a Mistake [Re: carrieann]
Still Offline
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Hey carrieann,

I'd be SUPER careful about telling him anything that he does not remember. I'd leave that decision in the hands of the professionals.

There are plenty of way for you to help him though. You can see many of the ways by reading here at MS.

Welcome. I'm glad you found us.

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#236893 - 07/08/08 11:35 PM Re: Disclosure Was a Mistake [Re: Still]
dangal Offline
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Registered: 02/09/08
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Loc: seattle area
Rob,




Man, that parade video was disgusting and distrubing.....

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Life is to short to blend in

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#244233 - 08/13/08 08:16 AM Re: Disclosure Was a Mistake [Re: Still]
Still Offline
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TOTAL TOTAL TOTAL MISTAKE!!!

I want to un-do it all.

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#244320 - 08/13/08 04:00 PM Re: Disclosure Was a Mistake [Re: Still]
dyingtolive Offline


Registered: 08/13/08
Posts: 12
hi. it has helped me to read this blog. hi carrieann, may i ask how ur husbands conversion disorder started? ive been experiencing numbness for the past several months, especially in the legs and some episodes of depersonalization unlike ever before.


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#244594 - 08/14/08 08:42 PM Re: Disclosure Was a Mistake [Re: Still]
Trucker51 Offline
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Registered: 05/20/08
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There was a small story in yesterday's LA Times about the Principal at the high shool in Gloucester either quitting or getting fired. He was the same person that had made some public mis-statement about the girls involved. I believe that I still have the paper and will try to look-up the info.

Mark

_________________________
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#245254 - 08/17/08 08:01 PM Re: Disclosure Was a Mistake [Re: Trucker51]
Still Offline
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The public cant handle this!

On Friday (8/15/08) there was a call-in on a morning radio talk-show on WRKO - Boston. The topic was James Brown and his abusive ways with his spouse and GFs.

This caller said that "any woman who sticks around after the first incident of abuse is either looking for it or likes it, but in no way deserves any pity from her (the caller)."

It reminds me of the MANY comments made when the church cases in Boston came to public view: "WHY did they wait SO LONG to tell?"

"cuz they likes it?"
"cuz it never happened?"
"cuz they see dollar signs?"
"cuz they got issues?"

They will never "get it" will they?




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#246214 - 08/23/08 12:19 AM Re: Disclosure Was a Mistake [Re: Still]
Still Offline
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THIS POST WILL SURPRISE A LOT OF YOU WHO KNOW ME:

I've been through a LOT of discovery in the past two days. I can see things I've never been able to see through the pain of "all that CSA stuff."

I re-read this thread and I want to puke! What a self-centered little fkg BRAT I was to write the original post.

"OH...GEE...things aren't just how I want them following my disclosure...boo-hoo!...OH...MY WORLD IS CRASHING DOWN cuz people cant handle it. Don't worry about that shrapnel in your arm...look at MY damage!

OK...the decision to disclose or not disclose IS in our hands. Its our decision and some of us cant and will not do it. That is fully our right!

The problem comes in when we start involving other people in a game where the rules are expected to be uniform for ALL players. In MY case, non-disclosure came in a few forms:

1) Pre-marriage: I never expected that stuff from my past to disqualify me from living like the normals. I figured that it was my job to ignore it all and move on. There are special storage compartments for stuff like that...I have lots of 'em. I'll store that crap and have a life.

OH!...Hi Lorie...will you marry me?


2) During marriage: Its funny how that stuff in storage leaks out and finds its way back home. OK...I'll sweep it up and dump it outside...no one needs to know about it.

What's that Lorie? Those issues...ah...nothing to be worried about.
OMG!!! She's crying! I want to tell her...I really do...but I cant...I just cant. Maybe things will get better with time.

Time passes.... she's still blaming herself...shit!! I wish I could tell her...but tell her THAT??? No way! Can't happen. That would be like a Jew raising his hand in 1942 Munich saying "you forgot to pick me up guys."

3) Marriage Counseling:
"Rob, all your symptoms point to sexual abuse in your past. Are you SURE you were not abused?" "NO FKG WAY was I ever abused as a child!!!....I swear on my children's lives Doc...I was never abused!!!!"

whew!!! that was close...they can see the trace-evidence but I can do one hell of a job denying it. OMG! She's taking it on herself...OH GOD I HATE WHAT THIS IS DOING! Those Catholic guys are sure brave...I'm not.

The end result of all that denial was a HUGE marital monster pushing it's way into our lives and taking over the relationship. I owned that monster. I could have killed it. I could have shown it the door. I chose NOT to.

We can go on and on about WHY i chose not to. But let us not forget that I am no longer just ME. I CHOSE to carry others along with me. I CHOSE to deny, deny, deny...even when...even though...even if...

A bomb went off. It was designed to kill ME. But I was not alone when it claimed its victims.

Disclosure was a mistake? No way! Willful denial was a omni-directional bomb that did nothing but buy me some time at the extreme and unfair expense of my wife.

Let me say it now! I OWN the damage done to others as a result of MY denial and non-disclosure. I'll go one step further and claim that I learned a lot from my perps with regard to not owning wrongs.

Disclosure a Mistake? Again... NO WAY! Being self-centered through a trial was the mistake. I hope this thread did not cause any damage for survivors and their SOs and spouses.


And let me take this opportunity to publicly apologize to Lorie. Her actions have been reactions to genuine pain realized through how I handled and mis-handled all of this. NO ONE is equipped to deal with a husband who has MY past. She's done VERY VERY well!




Edited by Robbie Brown (08/23/08 12:47 AM)
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#246218 - 08/23/08 01:12 AM Re: Disclosure Was a Mistake [Re: Still]
SEVEN ARROWS Offline
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Registered: 08/12/07
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.


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#246224 - 08/23/08 04:38 AM Re: Disclosure Was a Mistake [Re: SEVEN ARROWS]
dgoods Offline
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Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 622
Loc: Richmond area
Hi Rob,
Please don't delete anything you've posted; there's a lot of learning for all of us in the progression of this thread- maybe it's just me, but i bet both us, and F&F, might benefit from reading through the entire thing. Maybe we don't know each other, but i see a guy who's tough, honest, and bright enough to call it as he sees it, no matter where it leads. There's no way i can disrespect that. Maybe it doesn't feel like it to you at the moment, but my hat's off... From one former MA guy to a current resident- you kick a**, dude!

_________________________
Give sorrow words: the grief that does not speak
Whispers the o'er-fraught heart and bids it break.

-William Shakespeare, Macbeth, Act IV, Sc. III

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#246246 - 08/23/08 12:39 PM Re: Disclosure Was a Mistake [Re: dgoods]
Trish4850 Offline
BoD Liaison Emeritus
MaleSurvivor<

Registered: 10/15/05
Posts: 3280
Loc: New Jersey
Thank you Rob.

But I do have something to say about the marriage thing. Both people have a responsibility to it. You're owning up to your part of the contract. Lorie, it seems, has dug her heels in and is not working for tomorrow, but rather looking at all the wrongs of yesterday. I get it, I understand the visceral reactions, the anger, the F*** you attitude. I get where that's coming from, but doing wrong to you because of wrongs you've done to her doesn't solve anything, does it?

My brother is going through a horrible time right now and his marriage is blowing up for many of the same reasons, sans csa, at least as far as I know. It's hurting him so badly and it's hurting their kids in ways they're both too blinded by hurt to see.

It's easy for me to sit back and watch the implosion with all kinds of advice coming out of my mouth, but whether it's right or not, I'm not in it so take this for what it's worth. You're willing and wanting to heal, both yourself and your marriage. If Lorie isn't willing to do that too then you're screwed. You both have responsibilities to each other and your family. Continuing the marriage for another 10-15 years with swapped roles of who is a jerk (for lack of a better word) and who's not is not going to work.

I hope she'll help herself and you make it work.

ROCK ON...........Trish

_________________________
If you fall down 10 times, Stand up 11.

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#246258 - 08/23/08 01:48 PM Re: Disclosure Was a Mistake [Re: Trish4850]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6422
Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
I can see now that a lot of Lorie's reaction is based upon a natural inclination to pick-up the blame or see that blame was/is assigned to her by default. With me running around saying "my arm is broken and it ain't MY fault" seemed (in her eyes) to be assigning blame to her.

We both work that way. We are very defensive and ready to interpret blame being assigned to us, then we are MORE than ready to attack the source. We are BOTH guilty of that. I hope that now we can dis-arm in unison.

When nations do that, they have elaborate meetings in beautiful places. I think a trip to Zurich is called for.


HERE'S SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT FOR ALL OF F&F:

Help with my CSA issues have been denied or refused from:

Churches, Some Ts, Some MDs, TWO Mental Wards at Hospitals, My Sister, Pastors...ALL BECAUSE THEY "FEEL THAT THEY ARE NOT EQUIPPED TO HANDLE SUCH A HEAVY ISSUE."

So WHY do we assume our spouses are so equipped?


_________________________
This nation has lost its mind!

The Aftermath Video

The Water Buffalo Song

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#246263 - 08/23/08 02:21 PM Re: Disclosure Was a Mistake [Re: Still]
Wyclef_Bakr Offline


Registered: 06/22/08
Posts: 51
Loc: Doorstep of Thugz Mansion.
I think it's because we stood up in front of "God" and vowed "For better or worse,".

We spend so much time with them and they've accepted us and agreed to spend the rest of their lives with us, and us them. Maybe it's because we believe that love will conquer all.

I have not had time to read the whole thread so I apologise if my reply is out of place.


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#246264 - 08/23/08 02:32 PM Re: Disclosure Was a Mistake [Re: Still]
Barkabus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 809
Rob,

Buddy, I cried for you through this post. I just can't fathom the evolution of pain and suffering you're going through. All I can do is be here with you. To feel a little bit of your pain.

Quote:
I wish I could tell her...but tell her THAT??? No way! Can't happen. That would be like a Jew raising his hand in 1942 Munich saying "you forgot to pick me up guys."


This line hit me in the gut. I get the shakes thinking of the fear behind these words.

I'm proud of you Rob. You're pushing through with all you got. I'm praying for you my friend.

Mike

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#246329 - 08/23/08 11:34 PM Re: Disclosure Was a Mistake [Re: Barkabus]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6422
Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
Yeah...too bad this place resembles occupied France. Life would be a LOT easier.

_________________________
This nation has lost its mind!

The Aftermath Video

The Water Buffalo Song

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#246365 - 08/24/08 10:07 AM Re: Disclosure Was a Mistake [Re: Still]
NY Daisy Offline
New Here

Registered: 02/29/08
Posts: 183
we spouses stay not because we are better equipped to handle the situation, were not. We stay because we have one element that all of those other people you listed don't have, LOVE. I love my H, had I not, I would have left many years ago.

Everyone needs someone to be on their side, pick them up when they fall down, help them through hard times ect... if you had been diagnosed with cancer, would you expect your loved ones to abandon ship? No. So why should this be any different.

Sometimes the hurt spouse needs to put aside their pain for a awhile, to help the other one through his ordeal. Then after, we can refocus on the healing of everyone else. You will never be able to help her if you don't heal yourself, and she will never help you if she does not put aside her grudge, and focus on the bigger picture, which is getting you well for the sake of your family.

It is not an easy road, I've been living it for 13yrs, but I only made things worse, when I focused on all the deception I thought was done to me, then I realised it was not premediated on his part, it was just he needed to protect it at all cost. It wasn't about me at all. Same goes for the nasty way he treated me. Now if he is out of line, I point it out and tell him it was uncalled for, he apologises, and then WE LET IT GO.

None of this is easy on anyone's part, and I hope you find a way to work it all out.

Warmly,NYDAISY


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#246384 - 08/24/08 01:00 PM Re: Disclosure Was a Mistake [Re: Still]
Tom Perry Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/16/04
Posts: 87
Loc: London
I remained silent for 38 years. This was a mistake as I now realise. Disclosure was impossibly difficult - just getting those words past my lips was profoundly difficult and what has since happened has been, and continues to be, very challenging but I am considerably better for speaking and more at ease.

Some people I thought of as more than acquaintances are no longer around. Why? Well they found my disclosure too difficult to handle for reasons known only to them. Just recently I made a long-term acquaintance aware of my past - he has not communicated with me for 5 weeks. Is this just coincidence? Probably not. And if people walk away, go silent, are rude then just ignore it - they are in shock at what you have told them. Some just can't handle the subject - just look at how many believe child abuse does not happen or is grossly exaggerated.

Someone known to me was abused by my abuser. This boy told his father. His father did not believe him and physically hit his son and remonstrated with him. Thereafter he did not speak to his son again. The boy at the time was 13 years old. The boyís brother does not believe what happened to him. Now both parents are dead, and the brothers remian estranged. Why was the father so angry? As was discovered many years later the father had borrowed money from the alleged perpetrator and quite clearly he did not want to hear the awful news his son revealed because of what might happen to his indebtedness. You really could not make this stuff up.

By not turning on the light in the dark corners in which perpetrators hide they become strengthened. By not speaking out parental ignorance of the subject is permitted to continue. If the lights remained ďoff,Ē child abuse will prosper not diminish.

What of me now that I have disclosed. Well I decided to disclose big time and try to live by what I've written above. I have been working very hard seeking change in child protection legislation in education, and seek an overhaul of the useless schools inspections. Whenever I and others sit down with a group of apparatchiks from Government they look very uncomfortable because they know they are not dealing with theory. This is a very unnerving experience for them, and one they do not enjoy. They would rather we were elsewhere. They see us as the awkward squad. As someone from a well known charity in the child protection sector said to me "you and the others are very intimidating because of the extent of your knowledge." Well quite frankly that is their problem and I do not intend it will ever become mine.

_________________________
It is better to light one candle than curse the darkness.

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#246416 - 08/24/08 05:25 PM Re: Disclosure Was a Mistake [Re: SEVEN ARROWS]
dangal Offline
New Here

Registered: 02/09/08
Posts: 222
Loc: seattle area
Rob,

I'm so very proud of you. I'm proud that you have had the strength to look at yourself, your situation and learn from it. I'm proud because you are learning to own and work on what you are finding, and I'm so proud you came here and said all those things you just said. You are awesome. What a huge step you have taken. Thanks for sharing it with us. Thanks for helping so many. \:\)

_________________________
~Jen~
Life is to short to blend in

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#246537 - 08/25/08 08:10 PM Re: Disclosure Was a Mistake [Re: dangal]
Samii Offline
New Here

Registered: 12/07/07
Posts: 12
Loc: Japan
Rob-san. This is first time I am hearing any thing like this from you. It is sounding like from different person. Better person. I like this person~ I know saying this is making big difference to Lorie-san. I do not know if fixing this is possible. But it is some thing she is needing hearing any way.
It is not your fault or her fault. It is fault of what is happening to you. And it is many other thing to. But both person are needing stopping trying taking blame and finding fault. Accepting responsibility is important. But pointing finger even when it is at self will solve no thing. There is big different with taking responsibility for what you do and accepting blame. I think you are maybe seeing this now. No matter what is happening this is step that is important for both of you. Even if in end you are not together you will both be more strong after.


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