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#231350 - 06/16/08 05:55 PM all for what
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
you struggle
fight
claw your way to the surface
and gulp in air
before the next wave of filth
slime and decay
pushes you back under

it was bad then
it feels worse now
there's no escaping it
your only choice is to go through it
or not go at all

fatigue sets in
exhaustion takes its toll
on your mental
physical
and emotional resources

breathe
must remember to breathe
stay present
watch
pay attention
don't get snagged

there is no place to rest
this is not the time
you have to keep pushing
struggle
strive against the current

gain a little
pull yourself onto something
anything afloat
to catch your breath
before you're knocked back down
floundering
drowning
in the pain of your own existance

it's too big
too vast
i cannot comprehend the wholeness
as it is too great
too large
and i
i just don't have the strength

breathe
just hold on
if nothing else
let it be known
you never gave up

therein lies the reward
the total glory of it all
knowledge
that you never gave up

that's why you keep going?
vain ego?

there must be more
there HAS to be more

i can't last much longer


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#231363 - 06/16/08 07:05 PM Re: all for what [Re: MarkK]
KENKEN Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/25/07
Posts: 762
Loc: NOTHERN COLORADO
Mark,

Your words are so "awesome", especially to me. The reward that you hit on that "you never give up".

I always in my mind focus on the words of this site, Male Survivor. We are survivors because I feel for most of us "we never give up" I feel we know that as you say, there must be more, there HAS to be more. And with determination there IS MORE> We survived a life that was so not fair, so mean, so ugly, so screwed up, so abusive to our minds and body's.

Yes, there just has to be more. And I feel that is why most if not all of us are here, because there is more to life than what we got. So for me I struggle, I cry, I become angry, sad, lonely, I ask why me, I ask how come. Then for some unknown reason, I put it all behind me and say "THERE JUST HAS TO BE MORE TO LIFE THAN THIS"

Thanks for your words.

Ken

_________________________
I AM A GOOD PERSON, I AM A GOOD MAN

From the Movie: Antwone Fisher

***WOR ALUMNI SEQUOIA MARCH 2008***

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#231465 - 06/17/08 10:00 AM Re: all for what [Re: KENKEN]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: KENKEN
Then for some unknown reason, I put it all behind me and say "THERE JUST HAS TO BE MORE TO LIFE THAN THIS"

the key phrases ... "for some unknown reason" and "I put it all behind me".

I guess i'm still looking. Either for the reason - or the strength to just "put it all behind me."

Right now it is so heavy, so massive.

Thanx for the reply.

M


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#231593 - 06/18/08 03:47 AM Re: all for what [Re: MarkK]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Mark,

I don't think we continue out of vain ego, though yes, sometimes it certainly feels that way. Looking back, I think I somehow sensed that I could never really be beaten unless I gave up. There are some things that can't be taken from us; they can only be abandoned. I don't know if this makes any sense, but this vague feeling got me through many a dark day.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#231688 - 06/18/08 04:16 PM Re: all for what [Re: roadrunner]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: roadrunner
There are some things that can't be taken from us; they can only be abandoned.

... this kinda adds to the shame/blame layer ...


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#231692 - 06/18/08 04:21 PM Re: all for what [Re: MarkK]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
I suppose one could take it that way, Mark, but what I mean is that there is always reason to keep trying. That is, there are indeed things about us that just can't be taken away from us - not by abusers, not by anyone. We may in fact leave them for a time, but if we will just come back looking for these resources they will be there.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#231828 - 06/19/08 10:16 AM Re: all for what [Re: roadrunner]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: roadrunner
I suppose one could take it that way, Mark, but what I mean is that there is always reason to keep trying.

i would give anything to be able to believe that right now. thanx, Larry - for always being there, for wanting to help me see the "up-side" to things. right now i'm not there. i hate always feeling at the bottom of the pile. i hate that most of the time i detest myself and this existance i'm leading. these are the times i feel most helpless and hopeless - and i hate being a downer to everyone. i'm sorry, truly sorry that i can't see the sun right now. Thank you for trying.


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#231880 - 06/19/08 12:48 PM Re: all for what [Re: MarkK]
charles law Offline


Registered: 06/04/08
Posts: 28
Loc: perth australia
wow markK thats a deep poem and I know those feelings well and I am there at the moment and I suppose you would of heard others say you cant give up alse they (the perps) have won? I cant say whether giving up matters or not but I can say is we can find what is good in life we have that chance to do that for ourselves yes its not easy and dam its harder in other times and as i am saying this i know its true we dont live for our (perps) but for ourselves that is the choice we can make for ourself.

if it takes one step one breath one heart beat one thought one song one poem one love one spirit one soul one body and one life.
so be it at least you know I know we never gave up.

Be gentle mate with your
self.... I believe in you
Charles auwarrior


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#232012 - 06/19/08 10:03 PM Re: all for what [Re: charles law]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
Thank you.
Everyone.

i do appreciate the thoughts.


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#232018 - 06/19/08 10:15 PM Re: all for what [Re: MarkK]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Mark, my friend,

Originally Posted By: MarkK
Originally Posted By: roadrunner
I suppose one could take it that way, Mark, but what I mean is that there is always reason to keep trying.

i would give anything to be able to believe that right now. thanx, Larry - for always being there, for wanting to help me see the "up-side" to things. right now i'm not there. i hate always feeling at the bottom of the pile. i hate that most of the time i detest myself and this existance i'm leading. these are the times i feel most helpless and hopeless - and i hate being a downer to everyone. i'm sorry, truly sorry that i can't see the sun right now. Thank you for trying.

I try because you are worth it and I know you can do it. It is what it is. Take whatever time you need. You are not a downer, not for me and not for others either, I bet.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#232023 - 06/19/08 10:28 PM Re: all for what [Re: roadrunner]
mogigo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 1331
Loc: Colorado
Quote:
You are not a downer, not for me and not for others either, I bet.


Count me as "other", I just see a guy working really hard on his stuff.

Speak you're mind my friend

Mike

_________________________
Thriving

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#232124 - 06/20/08 08:58 AM Re: all for what [Re: mogigo]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: mogigo
Count me as "other", I just see a guy working really hard on his stuff.

Thanx, Mike

Originally Posted By: mogigo
Speak you're mind my friend

...now THAT has been getting me into trouble lately in other posts - so for a while i may lay low. But i sure appreciate your support

m


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#232251 - 06/20/08 06:24 PM Re: all for what [Re: MarkK]
mogigo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 1331
Loc: Colorado
\:\) Mark, remember always, that if that's the way you're feeling, then that's the way you're feeling. Is all the advice you get to "not feel that way" helping you not feel that way. Sounds a whole lot like "get over it" to me.

Again Mark, speak you're mind. You can't please everyone.

Don't even try.

Love ya
Stay strong, know you are
Mike

_________________________
Thriving

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#232288 - 06/20/08 09:38 PM Re: all for what [Re: mogigo]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: mogigo
You can't please everyone.

this is true. even when you know you've made a bad mistake - you can apologize all day - and it makes no difference to some.

unfortunately that's the attitude that triggers me the most - so much like my father's ... my older brother ... the only "help" was to criticize, or worse, to mock. i honestly don't know if i should say anything or not. i sit here and stare at the screen hoping to get some kind of idea - but nothing. no matter what i say it won't be right.

i know - that's not how everybody feels. strange though - it's the few - the one-in-a-crowd, that triggers the most. catches me off guard. makes me wish i wasn't.

Mike, thank you for reminding me that if it's how i feel - it's how i feel. But ... i'm not so sure i should be saying anything about it. ya know?

m


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#232337 - 06/21/08 03:00 AM Re: all for what [Re: MarkK]
Trucker51 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/20/08
Posts: 2826
Loc: Denver, CO
OUR WALLS:

"unfortunately that's the attitude that triggers me the most - so much like my father's ... my older brother ... the only "help" was to criticize, or worse, to mock. i honestly don't know if i should say anything or not. i sit here and stare at the screen hoping to get some kind of idea - but nothing. no matter what i say it won't be right".

"it's how i feel".

Mark:

I sat here for a couple of hours, looking at the screen too. I have tried really hard not to be the man that my father was. He was a Korean War veteran, a tank commander, an insecure hard guy, and an asshole type-A business executive, who got off on making me look and feel small his whole life. He found out the hard way when I was almost 17 that there was a limit to how much physical abuse I was willing to take. His emotional abuse of me went on until very late in his life. He died nine years ago and left that issue substantially unresolved.

This is the way that I feel: I try to be supportive in my own way, and you react and throw your walls up. I didn't try to put you down, but that is how you reacted. Then you fire back over the top of your wall, and to your surprise, my walls suddenly go flying up too. We both reacted the same way to something that reminded us how small we felt in our past. Neither of us were expecting the other's reaction.

And suddenly we are like two guys in castles shooting cannons at each other.

A couple of people PM'd me as a first step. I was still thinking in a very defensive manner. I saw your apology, which I felt started out good, but then slipped into something that began to make me start going over it. I reacted with a somewhat softer but still defensive entreaty.

I have long been prone to using sarcasm as a defense. I have long tried to get away from it, but it still can be a problem on occasion. I have noticed lately that one of the side-effects of Interferon multiplies my reactions several fold. Just in the last 3 months, I have lost 45 lbs using it, mostly just sitting here in my desk chair.

It took me all day long to begin to relax and start to pull down my walls.

And then I saw your last post. Now your reaction makes much more sense to me.

Sorry to make you throw-up your walls. I didn't realize that I was making you do that.

I swore up and down my whole life that I wouldn't be the kind of guy that my dad was.

You have a right to believe and feel whatever you want to, and so do I.

A good first step would be not using my text against me in a negative manner.

It reminds me way too much of how my dad treated me. I am very sensitive to it.

Just wanted to wish you better days in your future.

Mark too.

_________________________
"We stay here, we die here. We've got to keep moving". Trucker Mark



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#232357 - 06/21/08 08:43 AM Re: all for what [Re: Trucker51]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: Trucker51
Sorry to make you throw-up your walls. I didn't realize that I was making you do that.

You didn't make me do anything - i reacted out of my own history/past/present/how-i-was-raised - take your pick. The main thing is - i truly AM very sorry for anything hurtful i may have done.

Originally Posted By: Trucker51
A good first step would be not using my text against me in a negative manner. . . . It reminds me way too much of how my dad treated me. i am very sensitive to it.

Seems we both got hurt by the same kind of cannon fire.

Originally Posted By: Trucker51
I have long been prone to using sarcasm as a defense.

Yet another thing we have in common.

For what it's worth, i far more angry at myself than i could ever be at you. i was sure you wanted to help and i was just missing it, but then, like you said, walls went up - and soon the "war was raging".

Thank you for each attempt you made. i wish i had been smart enough of mature enough or "whatever" enough to catch myself and not start digging the trenches.

i wish you peace, health, and hopefully the understanding that i do not consider you a bad person. i dunno if that means anything - and it doesn't have to i suppose ...

Thanx for not giving up.

M&m


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#232721 - 06/23/08 05:13 AM Re: all for what [Re: MarkK]
Trucker51 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/20/08
Posts: 2826
Loc: Denver, CO
People who live in glass castles shouldn't fire cannons at each other.

TM

_________________________
"We stay here, we die here. We've got to keep moving". Trucker Mark



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#232735 - 06/23/08 08:40 AM Re: all for what [Re: Trucker51]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
i'm assuming that's a double-pointed arrow.
and you're right

and there are still people who say CSA has no lasting effect?

M


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#233216 - 06/24/08 07:48 PM Re: all for what [Re: MarkK]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Mark,

Originally Posted By: MarkK
and there are still people who say CSA has no lasting effect?

Yes, I've heard there are such people - the same ones who have spotted Elvis in their local Taco Bell.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#233397 - 06/25/08 03:32 AM Re: all for what [Re: roadrunner]
blueshift Offline
Guest

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 1242
Loc: infinity
Just wanted to share a thought about:

therein lies the reward
the total glory of it all
knowledge
that you never gave up

that's why you keep going?
vain ego?

Words have such power to shape our reality. When I read the lines about the glory of knowledge that you never gave up, I was momentarily inspired. Then the next two lines dashed the inspiration to pieces. Why? I think it's because the words "vain ego" reduce the essence of inspiration and will to overcome to a mere personality flaw. That contrast though is what made it meaningful to me.

I think it shows what great care we need to take choosing the words that shape our reality so we don't dash precious parts of ourselves to pieces.

_________________________
My Story
My Art

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#233434 - 06/25/08 09:28 AM Re: all for what [Re: roadrunner]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: roadrunner
Originally Posted By: MarkK
and there are still people who say CSA has no lasting effect?

Yes, I've heard there are such people - the same ones who have spotted Elvis in their local Taco Bell.

Which is, of course, absurd. Anyone with ANY brains knows Elvis prefers Burger King.

Originally Posted By: blueshift
Words have such power to shape our reality. When I read the lines about the glory of knowledge that you never gave up, I was momentarily inspired. Then the next two lines dashed the inspiration to pieces. Why? I think it's because the words "vain ego" reduce the essence of inspiration and will to overcome to a mere personality flaw. That contrast though is what made it meaningful to me.

I think it shows what great care we need to take choosing the words that shape our reality so we don't dash precious parts of ourselves to pieces.

I would agree - which is why those words were so carefully chosen. My hope was to bring focus and attention on the following two lines - that there MUST be more than just "vain ego" - otherwise it's all crushed and worthless.

M&m


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#233436 - 06/25/08 09:38 AM Re: all for what [Re: MarkK]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Originally Posted By: MarkK
Originally Posted By: roadrunner
Originally Posted By: MarkK
and there are still people who say CSA has no lasting effect?

Yes, I've heard there are such people - the same ones who have spotted Elvis in their local Taco Bell.

Which is, of course, absurd. Anyone with ANY brains knows Elvis prefers Burger King.




OMG! Burger King? Not Taco Bell? Really? I mean ... are you sure? I could have sworn it was Taco Bell. \:o He told me go to the Taco Bell and he would give me the new lyrics for "You Ain't Nothin' But a Hound Dog".

Much hijacking (sorry),
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#233519 - 06/25/08 04:16 PM Re: all for what [Re: roadrunner]
rehpotsirhcs Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/10/07
Posts: 204
COOL picture! BOOM!


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#233537 - 06/25/08 05:22 PM Re: all for what [Re: rehpotsirhcs]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
yeah ... and I thought I had a temper ...

_________________________
the story
    https://1in6.org/men/bristlecone/mark-krueger/

Kirkridge - October 2008
Alta - September 2012
Alta - September 2013

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