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#23148 - 05/20/06 04:07 PM Re: Was your abuse "voluntary"?
melliferal Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 1159
Quote:
Originally posted by Elad 12:
I don't think it should be called volunteering. I think it should be called surviving.

Dale
In the strictest sense, this is the point I'm trying to make.

_________________________
Children cannot consent; they can only comply.

Oprah's resources for male survivors

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#23149 - 05/21/06 01:14 AM Re: Was your abuse "voluntary"?
RICK57 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/31/03
Posts: 1611
Loc: ENGLAND
If he wants the results of surveys, then sorry I cannot provide that.

I could say that on the surface, what I experienced in 1969 could be described as concensual (by those that have an interest in describing it as so).

The reality (in a nutshell) is that, as a very young child (2 to 8 years old) I used to go on long walks with both of my grandfathers and one uncle. Sometimes all of us together (and others), sometimes just me with one of them. There was never anything untoward on any of those walks! What was pretty common, was that the adults would always bring sandwiches / fruit / sweets. Even before starting school (4.5 years old) I would walk for up to 9 miles with my paternal grandfather (probably explains why I was always hungry & why I have stamina now).

At 8 years old, we moved to a different town & I had to make new friends, didn't have the same contact with the elders from my family. Only saw them on weekends. In the old town, I had loads of friends., played football at school and was actually in a school year above the one that I should have been in for my age!

When we moved everything changed....the kids all had their own little gangs, and weren't really interested in anyone new. I still made friends, but they were the ones that were intelligent, but socially incompetent.

One day I complained to the teacher that the 'cricket clique' wouldn't allow us to join in! She was good & gave them a right bollocking - I bowled 4 of them out in one over! I couldn't be bothered with them after that!

We were also introduced to Rugby in the last year in Junior School - I was quite good at that also! I think this is when I first started to realise that some people were only strong in numbers!

After that, we were divided by ability for our secondary school - I went to Grammar School, and most of my friends went to secondary modern (with one exception).

First year was great...made new friends and settled in well! Got some excellent reports!

Also realised that the 'clique' from Junior School were not half as 'sporty/athletic' as they thought. First time we did cross country running, I started with everyone else, then gradually all of the sprinters started falling behind. Eventaully I was in front - I stayed in front for the next 5 years before I started work ( I don't mean that I ran for five years, just every time we did run, I was at the front). It was a valuable lesson for life - it's no good being able to run for 10 seconds, you've got to be able to keep going until you reach your destination.

2nd year, a friend of my new friends had done well at Secondary Modern, so had been allocated a slot at our school in the 3rd year. From day one he just stirred up trouble and the new friendships collapsed.

This left me in a vulnerable situation, with few friends (although the situation was later rectified, but too late).

I took my dog for a walk, and this is where I met the biggest mistake of my life! He co-erced me with sweets/fruit/money - didn't seem any different to my Grandparents, or Uncles...but he was so much different!

Was it consensual, or was I just Pavlov's dog (yes I know it's a slightly different scenario, but I was salivating at TRUST - I actually got a psychological kicking and more).

He didn't beat me up at the time! He didn't threaten me that anyone I was close to would die! He didn't say that I would go to hell if I told! He did say that he never made anyone do anything that they didn't want to (I didn't understand what he meant). During the grooming process, he asked me if 'I had ever relieved myself'? I was so thick that I thought he actually meant urinating and again didn't understand the question! He did imply that everyone did what we were doing, but never spoke about it!

Let me simplify how I feel about all of that now!

He was a pure abusive **** that used me for his own ends! I had less than zero understanding of what he wanted/requested from me, so I could not consent! Did it hurt me - well I have suffered mental trauma since 1969.. it got a hell of a lot worse around 2001, and is only now starting to wane because I took the ******* to court and got him convicted!

I very much know where I stand on this topic - one conviction is not enough! The conviction that has been achieved is pathetic & the judiciary need to very much get there act together!

Best wishes ...Rik

_________________________
*Never look down on anybody unless you're helping them up.
*I was seeking a way of expressing my anger - I found hope!
*There are many battles before the war is won! It can be won!

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#23150 - 05/21/06 02:18 AM Re: Was your abuse "voluntary"?
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
if numbers are his game ,i know of an ongoing study with over 300 expert researchers, it called male survivor ,invite him over sometime,i would like to debate with him .

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#23151 - 05/21/06 02:20 AM Re: Was your abuse "voluntary"?
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
sorry i meant 3000 researchers

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#23152 - 05/21/06 10:23 AM Re: Was your abuse "voluntary"?
Kirk Wayne Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/05
Posts: 499
Loc: Shrewsbury UK
I was brainwashed into believing that and I'm afraid that is what did the most damage ...... for many, many years.

Kirk
"Lets grab this bull by the horns and swing it about a bit"


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#23153 - 05/22/06 08:20 AM Re: Was your abuse "voluntary"?
melliferal Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 1159
Quote:
Originally posted by reality2k4:
In the interest of your own safety of mind, it is best that you stay away from those sites.

I know the short time I spent many years ago were pretty nerve wracking.

You CANNOT tell them it is wrong what they do, and a lot of them are police, judges etc.,etc.
Not many of them will have a dirty overcoat,

ste
I used to argue with these sorts of people all the time. Not on this particular website - but other ones, completely unrelated to pedophilia, in which some poster says something with a suggestively pervish slant; when called on it, the perv usually comes out with the standard garbage, easy to refute. The anonymity of the internet makes pedophiles all uppity.

The one single time in my entire life that I've ever "triggered", was as a result of one of these arguments. Lots of pedos post links to this one particular study they think supports their position (the study has not been independently corroborated with repeated similar numbers, but still). So I'm used to pervs posting links, right? Well, I follow a perv's link one day, expecting to find the same old garbage. Well, this site, along with its arguments about why adults should be allowed to have sex with kids, is plastered all over with photos. Lots of photos, of child pornography. Not technically illegal; the photos were strategically cropped so as to eliminate anything criminal. But it was obvious what they were. The site says "look at the kids in these photos, do they look like they're being tortured or abused?" Of course not.

I sort of blanked out, for a couple of minutes. Once I seemed to be able to move my arms again, I closed the webpage, turned the computer off, went over to the couch, and just sort of sat there, staring into space. I was overloaded. We know that some pervs use child pornography to groom their victims, but this site really brought it home in a clear, in-your-face way. I think that if I had seen my own young face in amongst those photos, I might easily have lost my mind. And my face may indeed be there, somewhere down the page. I didn't look - and I'm not going to. No, in none of the videos they made did I look at all unhappy or tortured. Guess that means it was all just fine, huh?

The bastards.

That incident made me lose the will to do that sort of arguing from that point forward. I ended my participation in the ongoing discussions and just avoided the topic of child abuse completely.

I'm starting to gain that will back. I'm not sure I'll be following any pedo's links any time soon - I'm just not able to, sorry - but I can still argue a good show.

_________________________
Children cannot consent; they can only comply.

Oprah's resources for male survivors

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#23154 - 05/22/06 08:47 PM Re: Was your abuse "voluntary"?
cavcoach Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/07/06
Posts: 2
One of the things that I have found as I have tried to deal with the abuse that I suffered at the hands of an older cousin, is that I for a long time did not acknowledge what happened as abuse because I had orgasms..or because I did wiilingly initiate sexual contact..It was years before I was able to see exactly what someone else said earlier of "yes is not a yes when no is not an option". I am still working through dealing with the sexual identitty issues that it has left me with but I hope that through this place, and my therapy I can continue to move forward. I guess my point is to merely say that anyone that went through abuse and has had the feelings of "was it abuse if it felt good" should know that they are not alone.


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#23155 - 05/23/06 06:31 AM Re: Was your abuse "voluntary"?
jesse7 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/06
Posts: 105
Loc: AZ
Quote:
Originally posted by cavcoach:
I for a long time did not acknowledge what happened as abuse because I had orgasms..
I had them too, but I wasn't given a choice.

Jesse

_________________________
What lies before us and what lies behind us is nothing compared to what lies within us

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#23156 - 05/23/06 06:37 AM Re: Was your abuse "voluntary"?
jesse7 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/06
Posts: 105
Loc: AZ
Quote:
Originally posted by ShyBear:

Then, when the first pangs of shame and confusion set in, I truly voluntarily sought out a fundamentalist Christian to talk to (because all Christians are kind, wise and understanding, right ?), which resulted in my non-physical, yet extremely violent, spiritual rape.
I too joined a fundamentalist church. Not only did I suffer severe emotional and physical damage from various perps, the church added its share of psychological and spiritual damage to boot. The result--toxic shame.

Jesse

_________________________
What lies before us and what lies behind us is nothing compared to what lies within us

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#23157 - 05/23/06 12:26 PM Re: Was your abuse "voluntary"?
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
I thought I would reprint two bits that are posted elsewhere on this site, since the issue of “liking it” has come up so often on this thread.

This one is from “Myths about Male Sexual Victimization”, which you can find on the home page:

Quote:
Myth #3 - If a boy experiences sexual arousal or orgasm from abuse, this means he was a willing participant or enjoyed it.

In reality, males can respond physically to stimulation (get an erection) even in traumatic or painful sexual situations. Therapists who work with sexual offenders know that one way a perpetrator can maintain secrecy is to label the child's sexual response as an indication of his willingness to participate. "You liked it, you wanted it," they'll say. Many survivors feel guilt and shame because they experienced physical arousal while being abused. Physical (and visual or auditory) stimulation is likely to happen in a sexual situation. It does not mean that the child wanted the experience or understood what it meant at the time.
The second is from a message to teenage survivors on our DB home page, under “Survivors” --> “Adolescent Survivors”.

Quote:
Sometimes It Felt Good

Your body is designed to respond to physical stimulus whether you want it to or not. If you ejaculated, had an erection or felt powerful feelings of arousal, this is normal. How is it possible to feel so frightened, experience tremendous physical pain and become aroused too? Because you cannot control your body's natural responses to sexual stimulus. If you think that because you experienced pleasure you must have wanted it or that if it felt good it wasn't abusive you're wrong. It was abusive and you did nothing to deserve it. Your body's natural responses were betrayed by someone who used you for their gratification and needs. Perhaps this story will help you understand.

It's a really hot day outside and you have been working hard mowing the grass. Your neighbor gives you an ice cold glass of lemonade to help you combat the heat. Feel the chill of the glass in your hand when you take it from him. Notice the water beneath your fingers from the condensation on the glass? As you lift it to your mouth there is a faint wisp of cold air against your nose. You begin to drink and your throat constricts in shock from the sudden cold. Remember when you drank so fast your chest would hurt, but you wouldn't stop drinking because it tasted so sweet and felt so refreshing. Even though your teeth hurt, your chest was exploding and you were holding your breath you kept swallowing great gulps. When someone is sexually fondling you, it may be physically painful and you may be scared and angry, but you cannot keep your body from responding.
These pretty much sum up the issue of “liking it” and have been very helpful to me. I always thought “You liked it” was one of the cruelest lies abusers have in their repertoire.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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