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#23138 - 05/19/06 07:48 PM Re: Was your abuse "voluntary"?
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Melliferal,

Quote:
I've tried explaining to him that children aren't capable of consenting, and that there have been studies which explain why that is so in physical and psychological terms. He won't believe me until I can give him the exact name of such a study - which I don't have.
Try the books by Mik Hunter and Mike Lew, both of which have bibliographies and good references.

But your friend is talking crap from beginning to end. Does he ask for proof that the oceans are salt water, or that the earth revolves around the sun, or that Germany is in Europe?

Bro, people like this are toxic in my humble opinion. If you enjoy this person's company for other reasons and in other contexts, fine, but I would suggest that you just never raise the issue of child abuse with him.

Actually, no. I can't go that far. For me, to listen to people talk as if it's okay to have sex with kids is as morally reprehensible as trying to give a fair hearing to Holocaust deniers.

It just ain't happening, at least, not in MY house!

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#23139 - 05/19/06 08:18 PM Re: Was your abuse "voluntary"?
onlyakid Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1552
Loc: New Jersey
Quote:
Originally posted by Curtis St. John:
Just food for thought… maybe he is a survivor as well and a ‘voluntary’ participant. And as long as he is able to believe this is not abuse then he is safe from the idea he himself was abused.

This would allow him to blame all his problems on something other then what he is most afraid of and never have to approach the subject with a therapist or partner. In his own head he would be rationalizing that it’s not even worth mentioning because it wasn’t abuse and could not possibly be the root of any issues. [/QB]
Thats always been something that has been difficult for me, trying to convience myself that even though I initated it at times and it was non-violent (that I can remember) that it was still abuse and it has effected me. I have to keep reminding myself that

a. my brother was bigger than me
b. I had no idea what sex was (I was in the 6th grade)
c. I looked up to and thought he had the answers.

_________________________
"Being with people that understand you...Priceless"

"and i don't want the world to see me, cause i don't think that they'd understand"

"You don't know what love is...you just do as your told"

"My life has changed. What you take as a simple thing, is not so simple for me anymore"


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#23140 - 05/19/06 08:30 PM Re: Was your abuse "voluntary"?
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
I think this 'consent' thing must have caused massive damage to anybody who thought they must have been complicit.

Imagine the thought of a child being asked in court if he enjoyed it.
Is that not enough to keep silent?
If not, what is?

Abuse is a violation of your body, it is not for somebody to just take away.
It is more to do with the emotional damage that ensues as a a result of it,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#23141 - 05/20/06 12:51 AM Re: Was your abuse "voluntary"?
melliferal Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 1159
Quote:
Originally posted by RICK57:
Melliferal and everyone else - if those people on the message board are arguing that there is nothing wrong with having sex with a child... then that only leads me to think one thing of them! They are potential paedophiles if they are not already!

Ask them if they have kids of their own, and how they would feel if some 'mature' adult had sex with them.

Best wishes ...Rik
He has indicated he probably wouldn't want an adult doing anything with his kids if he had kids. It's funny - whenever anyone tries to peg him on whether or not he would actually condone the activity, he says he wouldn't. But he's still so adamant about pursuing the topic. He puts a LOT of time and effort into his posts. His claim is that, if there is the mere potential of injustice when a person is jailed for a "safe (as in non-injurous) and consentual" sex act with a minor, it's worth "studying" to make absolute certain that such children are harmed enough to warrant putting people in jail - his latest tag-on qualifier is that the abuse victims need to "more screwed up than the average American" in order for their "harm" to actually count as harm. When I and several others explained that there certainly is harm, he demanded proof that the harm to children comes from the sexual activity, as opposed to the harm to children coming merely from "society's attitude toward adult/child sex". How am I supposed to prove something like this? The answer is, I'm not supposed to be able to prove it. It's rhetorical, and it's just argument "strategy". To be the one to ask the question your opponent can't answer is to make your position look better.

I still don't think he's a pedophile. He's just lacking in any sort of empathy whatsoever. But nevermind him.

There's a sort of paradoxical feeling, isn't there, when you find out you're not "alone" in an experience like the sort discussed in this thread. You're not sure whether to be happy that you have company, or feel even worse knowing other people had to endure the same thing.

Our lot, huh?

_________________________
Children cannot consent; they can only comply.

Oprah's resources for male survivors

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#23142 - 05/20/06 03:00 AM Re: Was your abuse "voluntary"?
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
tell him how it feels after. when even an 11 year old knows something bad has happened . sounds like a nambla spokesman to me.thats the same crap you can read on their site ,but they dont think they are pedophiles either. even saying it could be ok in some crazy way shows that he does not think it;s wrong to have sex with a minor under certain conditions .so define pedophile ,a person who thinks its ok to have sex with a minor ! its not ok under any conditions shadow

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its not hard to fall
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#23143 - 05/20/06 03:26 AM Re: Was your abuse "voluntary"?
melliferal Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 1159
Well shadow, when you put it so simply, I suppose you're absolutely right.

Luckily, there are only two of "him" on this other message board - a science/skepticism-themed board. Well, one of HIM - the only other pro-pedo person on there has a position so extreme and insane that he makes the person I'm arguing with seem like the calm, cool voice of reason. It's a big board, with lots of topics - but everybody except a few brave souls seems to be avoiding this one, heh. On the pro-pedo side, there's these two. The whacko guy - well, nobody likes him or believes him, so I don't need to argue with him. This other person, Mr. Rational, though, tends to make well-structured (if not well-supported) arguments - worthy of rebuttal. So I feel I have to argue with him. After all - if I don't argue, the terrorists win. \:\)

_________________________
Children cannot consent; they can only comply.

Oprah's resources for male survivors

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#23144 - 05/20/06 03:42 AM Re: Was your abuse "voluntary"?
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
give him hell buddy !i agree totaly

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#23145 - 05/20/06 01:53 PM Re: Was your abuse "voluntary"?
Elad 12 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/15/05
Posts: 1176
Loc: on the coast
I don't think it should be called volunteering. I think it should be called surviving.

Dale


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#23146 - 05/20/06 02:23 PM Re: Was your abuse "voluntary"?
ak Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 1491
That person sound very obnoxioous.

My abuse, most of it, it was from four different men, and all but one of them was violent to me, one more then others, but still violence.

More recent though, I have talk with some friends of my first 'girlfriend'. I was 13. She was ten years older. It did not certainly feel as it was 'abuse', it was quite pleasant, physicaly, and did not seem not normal to me. But then, the abuse had been happening for two years already, do I know then what is 'normal' for sexual behavior? Several friends have told to me that what she done, it was no better then the other abuse, even violent abuse, it was adult 'using' a child for her purposes.

I do not know what to think on it. I do not know I could call it 'abuse' even now after thinking on it and talking on it. But I know more now it is 'not proper'. And I think maybe, it do afect me in how I relate to girls at all. So maybe it was some way.

That other person, I do not know he is worth your energy to argue with. But I think most persons here would say abuse is not voluntary. As child, even more smart and growed up child, we have less 'judgment' to make choices of things as this. That is to take advantage of someone who is not as prepared to think it more for themself.

Andrei


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#23147 - 05/20/06 02:57 PM Re: Was your abuse "voluntary"?
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
In the interest of your own safety of mind, it is best that you stay away from those sites.

I know the short time I spent many years ago were pretty nerve wracking.

You CANNOT tell them it is wrong what they do, and a lot of them are police, judges etc.,etc.
Not many of them will have a dirty overcoat,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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