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#230308 - 06/11/08 10:24 AM Re: is rape harder for men than women [Re: JasonSmalls]
Trish4850 Offline
BoD Liaison Emeritus
MaleSurvivor<

Registered: 10/15/05
Posts: 3280
Loc: New Jersey
Nyjah,

Your cousin is welcome to join and be a support for you. It sounds like she's had a really rough time of life. But Nyjah, please be sure that Jaime understands that this is a site dedicated to helping men. Yes, woman are here, but it's in a supportive posture, not to deal with their own issues.

If you want to talk to me more about this, please feel free to pm.

ROCK ON..........Trish

_________________________
If you fall down 10 times, Stand up 11.

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#230312 - 06/11/08 10:52 AM Re: is rape harder for men than women [Re: Trish4850]
Nyjah Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/14/07
Posts: 610
Yeah, she knows. She'd be here for support for me and to help others as well 'cause she wants to be a counselor and help other people who have been hurt.


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#230317 - 06/11/08 11:02 AM Re: is rape harder for men than women [Re: Nyjah]
Trish4850 Offline
BoD Liaison Emeritus
MaleSurvivor<

Registered: 10/15/05
Posts: 3280
Loc: New Jersey
Excellent Nyjah. I look forward to meeting her.

_________________________
If you fall down 10 times, Stand up 11.

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#232002 - 06/19/08 09:31 PM Re: is rape harder for men than women [Re: JasonSmalls]
An Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/24/04
Posts: 151
Loc: usa
The complexity of the shame element is more unique for the male csa survivor. As females, we don't have the complication of a physically equivalent response-- usually for a female, rape is more obviously violence- the most horrid part I feel for the men is the insidiuousness of the betrayal- it's what makes the wound so much deeper than the physical and it being NOT understood by others- male or female and the feeling of utter abandonment of the world understanding,- well, the loneliness cuts a hole in the soul.

The confusion is greater for guys, esp. in the past, and thus the path to recovery long and winding- the female survivor rarely has to feel that her own body "actively" betrayed her, there's sooo many layers here and I just hope there can be more and more understanding.

the paradox of this whole post thread, is the very thing that began it is why it is harder- and that's the assumption that it is the same- like joey said it's individual- there are some male experiences that are similar to a females and the reverse, but the vast majority of men, it is a seduction rather than a violence experience initially and that's what is sometimes, but not as frequently true for most female rapes.
to me , it's like saying well if a parent dies from cancer or if a parent shoots himself in front of you, they're both dead parents so why would your loss feel any different? Don't know if that makes sense but it's how I see the logic of this question even being asked. the response to the parent's death would be quite different because the meaning assigned to each experience is so different. Women who are raped much less often felt they loved or were attached to their perpetrators- it makes a huge difference emotionally and has implications then for healing.

My support and recognition goes out to ALL survivors but I see the men's challenges as more layered, both because of societal aka "norms" and yes, their developmental vulnerability is usually greater. I think the statitics may be found to be such an underestimate in time- I would not be surprised to find the # of males equal or greater to females when it is all truly known.

part of me said just stay out of this debate, but i felt it was important as a female to say I do very much see the guys as having what I'll euphemistically call special challenges/hurdles- just huge spectrums of confusion and pain to deal with.......not that assaulted women don't have that- it's like being compared to being stabbed in the front vs stabbed in the back. both very painful but different effects on the body most times, different remedies - - i'm a little scared to post this as I'm not one for conflict but just felt it was Too important to say even as a female, I agree with what the guy's said a lot! Hope and healing to all- An


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#232021 - 06/19/08 10:24 PM Re: is rape harder for men than women [Re: An]
Trish4850 Offline
BoD Liaison Emeritus
MaleSurvivor<

Registered: 10/15/05
Posts: 3280
Loc: New Jersey
An,

I hear most of what you're saying but it seems like you're comparisons are more about adults than children. This statement really bothers me:

Quote:
Women who are raped much less often felt they loved or were attached to their perpetrators- it makes a huge difference emotionally and has implications then for healing.


If you're talking about kids, which the rest of us are, this statement fails miserably! Boys and girls are raped by their parents, other family, close friends, etc. - the people who are supposed to love them. Are you saying the boys feel loved more than the girls by these people?

As for the violence against boys v. girls. I don't see what you're saying at all. The perp who assaults a child will run the gammit from master manipulator to the stranger who kidnaps and one can morph into the other at the drop of a hat, leaving the child to deal with even more confusion and upset than was caused by the initial assault. Either child can be the victim of pretend love or violent rape or both.

The trauma is as individual as the person experiencing it.

ROCK ON.........Trish


ROCK ON.......Trish

_________________________
If you fall down 10 times, Stand up 11.

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#232024 - 06/19/08 10:33 PM Re: is rape harder for men than women [Re: Trish4850]
testingWaters Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/19/06
Posts: 508
it would be impossible to know, now wouldn't it?

inarguably there are fewer resources for male sexual abuse survivors. but otherwise, trust and betrayal and fear and on and on seem to be so much the same for all survivors.

not to mention that to my thinking this question is about as productive as:

"is rape harder for black people than white people"
"is rape harder for jewish people than daoists"

point being that talking about gender (or for that matter race, class, sexual orientation, profession, etc) is great. but perhaps it would be kinder to phrase the question in a way that, when answered yes or no, is not bound to be hurtful.

ie: how are the experiences of men and women who are raped similar or different?

love TW

ps: i know this might sound dogmatic or what some people think of as language policing, but its not meant to be - the title genuinely felt shitty to me personally...



Edited by testingWaters (06/19/08 10:36 PM)

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#232028 - 06/19/08 10:49 PM Re: is rape harder for men than women *DELETED* [Re: Trish4850]
An Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/24/04
Posts: 151
Loc: usa
Post deleted by An


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#232036 - 06/19/08 11:23 PM Re: is rape harder for men than women [Re: An]
testingWaters Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/19/06
Posts: 508
With all due respect, I know so many women who struggle very deeply precisely because their bodies responded to being raped (ie lubrication). And for that matter, I know a number of women who "enjoyed" and took pleasure from non-violent sexual abuse as a child. Including orgasms.

I am sorry to contest what you have written, in that I can tell you only mean well, but I am troubled by it. Whether or not you mean for it to be so, you make it out as though men play a more active role in their abuse (ie they find pleasure in it) while women (because they do not have an orgasm) are therefore passive recipients. Personally I think that plays into some learned stereotypes about gender that alot of people mistakenly think are natural.

Love tho, TW


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#232037 - 06/19/08 11:27 PM Re: is rape harder for men than women [Re: mara]
evanescentjoy Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/28/05
Posts: 46
I respectfully have to disagree.

Where is the sense in comparing trauma and hurt? Rape is hard for everyone - men, women, female and male children.

_________________________
"Become who you are." -Nietzsche

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#232067 - 06/20/08 02:00 AM Re: is rape harder for men than women [Re: evanescentjoy]
An Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/24/04
Posts: 151
Loc: usa
first to evanescent i totally agree it is hard (understatement) for all, but I think it's different too just like men abused by women have some different healing issues to contend with with than abuse by men- not harder or easier but different in some ways,And the same in others, I think I really erred in not expressing that better- that it is the Differences not being understood, acknowledged, or appreciated, that I disagree it with- not that ome or the other is harder or worse but differences that need to be understood to hopefully be the best help we can to ourselves and each other..you're right it shouldn't be implied harder or worse, but i'd still advocate for different with different complexities (that if not understood/acknowledged, it then would be harder to heal- hopefully that's more clarifying?)

And to TW-Glad you contested as I most definitely didn't mean men were active participants and women passive, just that the physiological differences were real- men's sexual responsiveness is physically more externally manifested and obvious- just different again and there are general biological differences in speed and nature of arousal that make all sexual experience have some gender differences for sure (positive or abusive) and i wanted to acknowledge that ignoring those differences are a part of the healing challenge- it's societal differences too about male/female expectations and what we take on within ourselves because of that esp as children-
kids are by nature literal and so the visibility of response just factors in. thank you all- I do fear i didn't express myself well re differences to be understood , not harder or easier in themselves but if the differences are not understood & recognized , healing is harder.... and thanks for the love ! \:\)



Edited by An (06/20/08 02:04 AM)

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