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#229174 - 06/05/08 08:55 PM Is there a connection??
Junefriday Offline


Registered: 06/05/08
Posts: 113
Loc: Canada
My husband and I were married a year ago. We got engaged after 6 months and though this seemed a little fast to me, we were both in our 30s and knew what we wanted. We saw it in one another and no one was surprised when we announced our intentions. He moved in with me after we got engaged and a year and a half later, we got married. During the 2 years before we got married and the first 3 months of marriage, everything was fine.

Then we moved to a new town and into a home that we bought together. We argued over decorating ideas, but that was really it. But, I started to notice that my husband seemed tired all of the time. He would barely talk to me during dinner and often would just go upstairs to sleep without so much as saying goodnight. We talked about our relationship and he began to say that perhaps we had been on our own for too long and it was too hard to build a life together. The next thing I knew, he wanted to separate. We went to 2 counseling sessions but after the second one, he said that his feelings had changed and he didn't want to be married anymore. He just wanted his old life back. He has never been able to articulate what went wrong. Any time that I have asked, he has brought up silly things; grocery shopping habits, my clumbsiness, etc. None of the things he has ever mentioned are reasons to end a marriage let alone a relationship. He made comparisons between me and his mother (who is a great person despite what he says) and said that perhaps he felt pressured into marrying me. The more I wanted to talk to about it, the more distant he would become and the more hurtful in his words and actions. I finally told him that if he wanted out of the marriage, he needed to leave the house. That was 2 months ago and he has not yet left. We are friendly to one another, even going for motorcycle rides, seeing concerts, etc. But, the affection and passion is gone.

Through all of this, his family has been perplexed as to how he changed overnight. He went from being a sweet, affection and caring man to a cold, insensitve and unfeeling monster. He does not seem to have any idea of what he is doing to me and the fact that he is walking away from all of our dreams. His parents have reminded him that he was the happiest they had ever seen him when he met me. In speaking with his parents, they hinted at something in his past.

One night (a good night), I asked him about it. He told me about a male neighbour that sexually abused him when he was a young child. I later found out from his parents that he didn't tell anyone about it until 20 years later. He came out with it after an argument with his mother and admitted what had happened and that he blamed her for not protecting him. He received counseling but it was more for the abuse not for his feelings toward his mother or women in general.

Since discovering this, I have done a lot of research on the affects of childhood sexual abuse on adults. I cannot believe that he has fallen out of love with me so quickly and refuse to believe that the nasty person that he has become is truly who he is. Is it possible that as a result of what happened to him, he has an inability to trust and to develop deep relationships? Is it possible that he is pushing me away because he does not want to be vulnerable again? Was the move to a new house significant enough of a change to trigger all of this to surface?

If anyone has gone through something similar, please let me know. I love him but it is getting harder and harder each day. I want him to return to the kind person I fell in love with. I see glimpses of him now and then but less often as the days go by. He is alienating his family and I fear that he will soon be all alone. I wish that I could go back in time and protect the little boy that he was but I can't. All I can do is help him now but he won't let me in.

_________________________
"Love comes to those who still hope even though they've been disappointed, to those who still believe even though they've been betrayed, to those who still love even though they've been hurt before.”

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#229197 - 06/05/08 10:54 PM Re: Is there a connection?? [Re: Junefriday]
Trish4850 Offline
BoD Liaison Emeritus
MaleSurvivor<

Registered: 10/15/05
Posts: 3280
Loc: New Jersey
June,

Welcome. I'm so sorry for what you're going through now. I can't imagine what would make your husband suddenly switch to this other person, but that sounds like exactly what he's done. It sounds like he feels the need to push everything good away and yes, it is absolutely possible that the childhood trauma he suffered could be the cause of it. No guarantee of course, but absolutely possible. If something triggered him and he now believes that he doesn't deserve any of the good he has, including you, then his only protection against the hurt he's convinced will come, is to push it all away, just as fast and as far away as he can.

I think a big thing for you to consider is that part of what he says may be absolute fact.

Quote:
We talked about our relationship and he began to say that perhaps we had been on our own for too long and it was too hard to build a life together.


It's very true that people who have been on their own for a long time have a very hard time consolidating their life with another. I don't believe it's impossible, but I acknowledge it's very real. I'm 45 and my b/f is 47. We don't live together, but I stay at his house every weekend. Even after better than 6 years, it gets challenging sometimes as we both have our own ways of doing things. Most of the time, I think I'm the one compromising, but then he'll make a comment about something totally benign, like where I moved a plant, and I realize that even something so small can be seen as me infringing on his space. It seemed silly to me at first, but I'm getting it and taking his feelings about what I do in his house much more into consideration, even if it seems inconsequential to me and despite the fact that he refers to it as our house {how's that for confusing?!}

Men as a rule and survivors in particular have a very hard time expressing what they want or need. They have an even harder time if they think that what they want or need will somehow hurt the one they love. The result is that nothing is said, but things fester anyway and it all becomes a horrible mess that a survivor is ill-equipped to find his way out of without resorting to bad habits and behaviors that worked when he was a child.

Does any of this make any sense? I'm a little tired now so I'm not sure, but I'm going to leave this post and come back to it tomorrow.

ROCK ON.........Trish

_________________________
If you fall down 10 times, Stand up 11.

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#229208 - 06/06/08 12:12 AM Re: Is there a connection?? [Re: Junefriday]
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16263
Welcome June. We're glad you're here but so very sorry for the reason. You're among friends here.

Originally Posted By: Junefriday
Is it possible that as a result of what happened to him, he has an inability to trust and to develop deep relationships? Is it possible that he is pushing me away because he does not want to be vulnerable again? Was the move to a new house significant enough of a change to trigger all of this to surface?


The answer to the first two questions is yes.

The answer to the third is possibly. Change is a very difficult thing and if a person is on the edge it could be enough to tip the balance. The other possibility is that some event that occurred during the process of the move may have been the key. In the end it's probably not as important what caused it as much as the abuse itself and the aftermath.

Lots of love,

John

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#229234 - 06/06/08 09:29 AM Re: Is there a connection?? [Re: Trish4850]
Junefriday Offline


Registered: 06/05/08
Posts: 113
Loc: Canada
Thanks for the response Trish. Yes, I do believe that there is some truth to what he says. But, we both knew that going into the relationship and felt that we could compromise. We talked about the things that were important to us, etc. so while it was still a bit of a challenge, we knew what we were getting into.

One question I still have though is that if he really wants out, why doens't he just leave? It's been a few months now since I've told him that he needs to move out but he doesn't seem to be in a big hurry. He just returned from a week long trip today and I figured he would spend the next few days moving. But, he has other plans. I just don't get it.

_________________________
"Love comes to those who still hope even though they've been disappointed, to those who still believe even though they've been betrayed, to those who still love even though they've been hurt before.”

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#229374 - 06/06/08 09:33 PM Re: Is there a connection?? [Re: Junefriday]
Trish4850 Offline
BoD Liaison Emeritus
MaleSurvivor<

Registered: 10/15/05
Posts: 3280
Loc: New Jersey
I wish I could answer your question June, but I can't; only he can. I know you don't want him to leave and I'm not suggesting you push him out, but you two need to talk. Choices and decisions have to be made. If he chooses to stay, then something has to move in a positive direction. You didn't sign on for a room mate, you got married with every intention of creating a marriage, not a rooming house. It's not fair to either one of you to pretend that the way things are now is anything like what you expected or deserve.

Does he say anything about the current state of things or is he just floating along?

ROCK ON.........Trish

_________________________
If you fall down 10 times, Stand up 11.

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#229429 - 06/07/08 03:38 AM Re: Is there a connection?? [Re: Trish4850]
An Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/24/04
Posts: 151
Loc: usa
JuneFriday - you might want to look at post threads like the one " I feel like I'm drowning" from the guys boards- so often i found the guys wonderful bravery in telling their feelings gave me the understandings that my friend could not verbalize at the time. and seeing the other guys understanding helped me get in touch with my own. sometimes too my friend was saying what they were saying but i needed to hear it from others where i didn't have the "is it me?" stuff playing into my ability to hear him , truly hear him.
These guys may often go so much through life with the surface lies as a coping skill, but i find them the most emotionally honest humans on the face of the earth and an inspirational and model for me to learn to be the same.
I'm just always soooo grateful for the guys and their beautiful honesty and sheer bravery I see in the boards, even when what they're expressing is their perceptions of themselves as cowards and unable to communicate.
The vision always comes to mind that it's because their csa has created one of those distorted circus sideshow mirrors that they are seeing their reflection from- and sometimes our reflections too--
the "average" looking person can see their reflection in those mirror as 8 ft tall and stick thin, and move to the next mirror where they're 4 ft and 10 times as wide. they're all mirrors giving refections and sometimes they're seeing our reflections in those same mirrors of distortion.

theres'so much going on soo deeply buried inside, all we're seeing as friends and partners are the air bubbles they're able to blow to the surface at this time and sometimes the waves and ripples of the deep sea of emotions and pain beneath.

don't know if that all seems too abstract, but the more i've understood the survivors "insides", the less confusing the outer behaviors have become and the more i can undrestand....



Edited by An (06/07/08 07:44 AM)

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#229462 - 06/07/08 09:05 AM Re: Is there a connection?? [Re: Trish4850]
Liv2124 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/06
Posts: 159
Loc: New Jersey
June,
Welcome \:\)
I'm not sure what could have triggered your husband to do "an about face." Everyone needs personal space from time to time but it certainly sounds as though he's taking it to extremes. Try to keep in mind that his coping skills at the moment may not be what they should be, and his initial reaction by attempting to run away from this could be the only quick fix he came up with until he comes up with something else.
I agree with you, it's very hard. With us, what's okay one minute may not be okay the next. I try to keep to the rules, he's constantly trying to test or change them. I'm not a mindreader. I agree with Trish, in that, it could be as simple as moving something from one place to another, or buying a different brand of something, or taking a different route to get somewhere. It's never about the object that was moved. Never. It's more of a control issue.
You are going to have to talk with him and see if he can articulate to you what this is actually about. Try asking him "What's happening here" rather than what he's feeling. I've always found that getting the root cause info is always easier if you approach it from the non-emotional side. He might panic if you pressure him into coming up with what he's feeling, but if he simply tells you what he sees happening, he'll no doubt bring what he's feeling into it without realizing it.
Communication is always best, in virtually any situation.
Always,
Liv


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#229472 - 06/07/08 10:00 AM Re: Is there a connection?? [Re: Liv2124]
Junefriday Offline


Registered: 06/05/08
Posts: 113
Loc: Canada
Thanks everyone for the messages. It helps to know that I am not off my rocker! I am still struggling with trying to understand if my husband's desire to end the marriage is because of his CSA or because he simply doesn't care for me anymore. Maybe it is just easier for me to believe that it is the CSA. I just don't think it is possible for someone to change so drastically in such a short time, not without some sort of trigger. Deep down he is a great person and I can't imagine that he would be proud of how he is treating me. But, I don't know how to get him to open up. He is tired about talking about "us" and while he didn't back away when I asked him to share the details of the CSA with me, I find it odd that while dating, he never thought to mention it. I agree that communication is the key but I don't know how to make that happen. I don't even know where to begin.

As for your questions Trish, "Does he say anything about the current state of things or is he just floating along?", I would say that he is floating. He wants the marriage to be over but yet he isn't taking any steps to leave. We need to sort out our financial affairs, sell the house, etc. but he isn't doing anything toward it. He seems to be happy here and seems to want to co-exist with me, but you are right in that I didn't sign up for a roommate. As much as I love him and want to support him through this, my needs are not being met at all. I can put my needs on hold for a while to make him come first, but I can't do it forever and certainly not if he isn't trying to make things better. I just can't believe this is my life!!

_________________________
"Love comes to those who still hope even though they've been disappointed, to those who still believe even though they've been betrayed, to those who still love even though they've been hurt before.”

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#229584 - 06/07/08 09:30 PM Re: Is there a connection?? [Re: Junefriday]
mara Offline
New Here

Registered: 04/01/08
Posts: 18
So sorry June for everything you are going through. What you describe could be me, except that I have live with this kind of marriage for 15 years now. My husband only told me about his abuse just over a year ago, but before that we were roommates and I blamed myself over and over. The change came over him a day or two after our wedding day and he remained closed and uncommunicative ever since. If I tried to talk about what might be wrong he became harsh and sometimes cruel, calling me names etc. I learned to walk on eggs and read all his moods. After his disclosure I thought things might get better, that we could work together finally toward a common goal, but I get the feeling more and more that he really doesn't want me around, CSA or no CSA. I agree with you that this is no way to live, that your needs are important and that although you want to support him, he may not want you to. And no, you're not crazy, I believe you're reading the situation correctly. All I can say is I get it when you say "I just can't believe this is my life". I wish you all the love and happiness you deserve.


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#229864 - 06/09/08 02:12 PM Re: Is there a connection?? [Re: mara]
Junefriday Offline


Registered: 06/05/08
Posts: 113
Loc: Canada
Thanks Mara! I read through some of your posts to get a better handle on your situation. I was disappointed to hear that things really aren't that much better. I am so sorry for you.

I feel very much the way you do; always trying to read his moods, walking on eggshells, etc. I used to get so excited to see him when I would return from work. I still get excited but the moment I put my key in the door, I get nervous because I don't know if it my wonderful, sweet and loving husband at home, or the cold, distance guy that seems to be around more frequently.

We don't have any children so it would be so easy to walk away from the marriage now. But I just can't imagine him not being in my life anymore.

Are there any survivors who can provide some insight into what I can do to show him that I care and that despite how he is treating me, I am still happy that he is in my life? But how do I also convey that while I want to love and support him, I don't want to be taken advantage of?

_________________________
"Love comes to those who still hope even though they've been disappointed, to those who still believe even though they've been betrayed, to those who still love even though they've been hurt before.”

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#229866 - 06/09/08 02:19 PM Re: Is there a connection?? [Re: WalkingSouth]
Junefriday Offline


Registered: 06/05/08
Posts: 113
Loc: Canada
Thanks for your responses and encouragement John. Given that my husband is pushing me away, any suggestions on how I can push back? In so many of the posts that I've read, the men mention their wives "leaving them". I can certainly understand that because it is very hard to support someone who does not show any kind of appreciation. My husband believes that all of the problems are with me and would never consider that the CSA is playing a huge role.

If it truly is, then my husband needs me now more than ever. I may not be the person that can help him, but I don't want to walk away from him either. How can I make that clear to him?

_________________________
"Love comes to those who still hope even though they've been disappointed, to those who still believe even though they've been betrayed, to those who still love even though they've been hurt before.”

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#230196 - 06/10/08 08:53 PM Re: Is there a connection?? [Re: Junefriday]
Trish4850 Offline
BoD Liaison Emeritus
MaleSurvivor<

Registered: 10/15/05
Posts: 3280
Loc: New Jersey
Tell him exactly what you wrote here. I wish there were some magic bullet that could travel through our guys brain and make them see with absolute clarity that when we say we love them and want to stay with them that we mean it. I wish there was a specific course schedule with regular tests to gage how well we were all absorbing the class material complete with a final so we'd know it was time to move on to the next class level. Sadly, none of that exists.

All we have are our words and actions that need to be repeated over and over and over and over and over again until everyone gets it.

Your current situation is rough and probably a "we have to talk" statement would not go over very well, at the same time though, leaving things to fester is even worse. What if, in a quiet moment, you said to your husband, "I'm glad you decided to stay." and see what the reaction is?

ROCK ON..........Trish

_________________________
If you fall down 10 times, Stand up 11.

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#230333 - 06/11/08 01:33 PM Re: Is there a connection?? [Re: Trish4850]
Junefriday Offline


Registered: 06/05/08
Posts: 113
Loc: Canada
Thanks Trish! I did talk to him the other day and asked if he thought he was over the CSA. He admited that perhaps talking to someone again might be a good idea given that he is now at a different point in his life. I am skeptical that he will do it though.

Either way though, I don't know that I will ever know. He has made it very clear that he wants out of our marriage. I know that in time he will come to learn that his feelings for me are being clouded by the residual affects of his trauma, but he doesn't make the connection now and simply believes that he made a mistake in marrying me. He thinks I am useless and doesn't see the value in being with me.

As much as I know that it is the abuse talking and not truly him, it takes 2 to be in a marriage, let alone to make it work. I can't force him to stay. So I will respect his wishes and do my part in ending our marriage. Otherwise I will be waiting for a miracle that may never happen.

_________________________
"Love comes to those who still hope even though they've been disappointed, to those who still believe even though they've been betrayed, to those who still love even though they've been hurt before.”

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#230449 - 06/11/08 10:35 PM Re: Is there a connection?? [Re: Junefriday]
rchsweetie Offline
New Here

Registered: 04/06/08
Posts: 23
June, I wonder what would happen if you were the one to walk out. I can't guarantee that it would work, but I wonder if it would be the kick in the butt and the dose of reality that your husband seems to need. (but don't let my post be the reason for you leaving - you need to be ready to do this on your own)

I know that its not the same situation - but after my former boyfriend pushed me away one too many times, I left. Upon advice from here (thanks Trish!) I wrote a letter that both told him how much I loved and cared for him, and also detailed (calmly) why and how I thought the CSA was still affecting his life. I ended it with what I guess can only be called an ultimatum - saying that I loved him, wanted to spend the rest of my life with him, etc. but could only do it if he would get help. I remember writing that I loved everything about him except for one thing - that he, up until that point, refused to get help.

It was the roughest time period we've had. I never want to do it again. The uncertainty of what the future would bring was hell, and I only got through it with lots of support from friends and family. But he's starting therapy on Sunday, because he finally finally finally gets it - it wasn't him, it wasn't me, and it wasn't "us" that was the problem. The issue is the abuse. He hasn't promised me that the therapy will work - but he's ready to make a life change.
And I firmly believe that if I had let him continue to float along, we would still be floating along unhappily together.

This might have to be the bravest thing you do for yourself - but it might also end up being the smartest and healthiest.

Here's how I thought of it. I could stay with him and be unhappy, not get married, not have a family, etc. So that didn't seem like a healthy option....which left leaving him as my only option....Therefore, in leaving him, he would either come back to me as a better, more whole person, which would be amazing and absolutely wonderful. Or he wouldn't come back to me - which would be sad and heartbreaking, but at least I would know that he wasn't coming back to me, and could begin my own healing process, instead of sitting in limbo.

One more thought for you - and this is how I framed the argument to my boyfriend. If either of one of us came home from the doctor and was told that we had a debilitating decease that was going to ruin our lives unless we did the treatment (which was going to be long and hard, and there was no guarantee of success), I would expect us to do the treatment. I need to marry someone who will fight for our marriage and our family. And I see the abuse as the same thing. It is a debilitating decease - but it IS curable!

Maybe your husband isn't able to shake up the situation and make a decision on his own. Maybe he needs to hear from you that you aren't going to accept this way of life - that both of you deserve better. I think for sure that would convey that you love him and will support him - but that he needs to meet you half way.


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#230550 - 06/12/08 10:48 AM Re: Is there a connection?? [Re: rchsweetie]
Junefriday Offline


Registered: 06/05/08
Posts: 113
Loc: Canada
Thanks for the thoughtful message rchsweetie. I agree with what you are saying. However, there is one difference - my husband is the one who wants out and who is leaving ME. I think what is causing him to believe that he does not love me anymore and that I can't make him happy is the residual effects of the CSA. But, until he comes to that realization, he believes that it is me and therefore wants nothing more to do with me. So I can't very well walk out on him when he has essentially walked out on me. He is in the process of leaving the home and while it is definitely at a slower pace than I would, he is leaving.

I was planning to write him a letter at some point though and do just what you said. I also want him to know that if he does go for therapy and needs someone to talk to, that I will always listen. But at this point there is no point in me telling him that I want a life with him but only if he gets treatment because he doesn't want a life with me.

On the one hand, I wonder if I am just reacting to the fact that I am hurt and heartbroken. On the other hand, he has changed much too quickly and far too radically for it to be a case of him simply falling out of love. It is hard to believe that someone who was once so kind, sweet and loving toward me could turn around and tell me that I am useless without batting an eyelash...without there being something more going on.

_________________________
"Love comes to those who still hope even though they've been disappointed, to those who still believe even though they've been betrayed, to those who still love even though they've been hurt before.”

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#230663 - 06/13/08 12:36 AM Re: Is there a connection?? [Re: Junefriday]
An Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/24/04
Posts: 151
Loc: usa
june- i think- but do check, that the open forum guys boards are someplace you can post your question to the guys ,

i think i saw that it was ok for females to post there but do check - most of the guys don't generally look at F & F. and you know i think they can answer your heartfelt questions to the core and so profoundly in my experience...


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#230703 - 06/13/08 09:20 AM Re: Is there a connection?? [Re: An]
chrty Offline
New Here

Registered: 04/12/08
Posts: 27
Loc: new york
First I would like to say I have been there. I like what rchsweetie wrote. I dont know how long she was with her husband. I would like to say that if I had done what she wrote almost 20 yrs ago. I would not be here on line ...as much. SHe had clear insight. My husband and I have been 'floating unhappy" for yrs. Even all these yrs later would still makw sense now.
I believe that the point that she was making is not that you want to stay and he wants to leave. I believe that has become a norm of csa. It is a truly painful disabling disease.

Forgive me but if you had had a disease (breast cancer, brain tumor) would he leave?
Do I believe all of this is from CSA? Yes all of it.
DO I believe there is something else maybe another molestation ? YES
I had stayed for over 20 yrs. Most of them were unhappy.
Do I love this man? Most of the time. Sometimes the name calling the anger the transference of me being wrong is too much.
I have received nothing but great and goodness from the people here on MALESURVIVOR.
The friends and family members look like they actually live here in my home.
The men sometimes pain me to my core. I dont get pained often. When they write me a PM i feel that they are stepping in for my husband because the know that s what a good friend would do for another. They dont even know him!!! He doesnt even get on this forum!!
Be well JUNEFRIDAY.

_________________________
if i had to do it all again i wouldn't

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#230740 - 06/13/08 12:56 PM Re: Is there a connection?? [Re: chrty]
Junefriday Offline


Registered: 06/05/08
Posts: 113
Loc: Canada
Thanks chrty. I am so thankful for all of you and the encouragement that you provide. This whole process has been hard for me because I am the type that sees a problem and tries to fix it. I fully understand that this is not my problem and certainly not my problem to fix. But it is very difficult to sit on the sidelines, especially when the person refuses to get in the game!!

To answer your question if he would leave if I had a disease...I think the answer would be yes. I am clumsy and apparently this is a big problem for him. I think he worries that if something happened to me, he would be obligated to care for me. That would be expected for a husband. At first I took his issue with my clumbsiness to mean that he doesn't love me enough to care for me if I was hurt/ill, or that he is too selfish to put someone else's needs first. But now I wonder if he questions his ability to care for someone else. He also mentioned that he wasn't sure that he wanted children anymore though when we married, he definitely was in favour of a family. Perhaps he was saying that because he knew it would be a deal breaker for me and would cause ME to end the marriage. Or, maybe he questions whether or not he will be able to provide the care and protection to his children, that he feels he never received himself.

I think I could drive myself nuts thinking of "what ifs"! I guess my question back to you is if it is so difficult and filled with so much unhappiness, why do you stay in the relationship?

_________________________
"Love comes to those who still hope even though they've been disappointed, to those who still believe even though they've been betrayed, to those who still love even though they've been hurt before.”

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#230849 - 06/13/08 11:19 PM Re: Is there a connection?? [Re: Junefriday]
Lee73 Offline


Registered: 05/26/08
Posts: 32
Good question, June. I wonder as to the "why do you stay" question myself and am figuring out if I should stay or go. Would love to hear the answer to that question from those who have stayed. I've been trying to figure out if the cost is too high to stay, and if my needs would ever be met...


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#231193 - 06/15/08 05:27 PM Re: Is there a connection?? [Re: Junefriday]
dwilliams Offline


Registered: 06/15/08
Posts: 2
Loc: Northern Illinois
I have also experienced this, only I was your husband I am in my third marriage and am doing well now for 14 years. Remember, you cannot change him, he must,MUST seek out a good therapist, sadly individuals stop treatment, it is hard and difficult, but it CAN be done. I recently wrote a book about my own journey disclosing ALL, some of it is listed at info@abovehisshoulders.com, it has helped me that my wife has stood by my side,I needed to mature and realize that as the movie "Into the Wild" states, Happiness is real when shared. It takes time, and it is tough, there are no easy answers, I am sorry. Sometimes an AHA experience occurs, where one will see change. Remember it is not you. Hang in there. Dan

_________________________
dan williams

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#231228 - 06/15/08 11:23 PM Re: Is there a connection?? [Re: Junefriday]
kinetic1 Offline
New Here

Registered: 03/03/08
Posts: 4
June I just wanted to thank you for starting this thread. My SO had a bad episode last night and so I came here looking for some support. A lot of things in this thread helped me get my balance again.

I hate that feeling: "I just can't believe this is my life." You try to do the best you can, be the best person you can be, you know, you're not out there murdering people, you just fell in love with someone and thought it was the greatest thing in the world. Perhaps like me, you are a dynamic creative woman, and you were enjoying your life until this thing reared its ugly head. And there's nothing you can do to fix it. It renders you helpless and all you can do is watch and hope that he'll do something about it.

Well at least your thread prompted me to send my SO a supportive text message. He's not even at home right now, he's in another city and there's nothing I can do for him. I can see this is a lesson for me as well. Despite whatever pain he is in, he texted me back saying, "You are the great love of my life."

I want to believe that love heals all. I know it can, I have seen love do some amazing things. But how can it get started when one can't even love themselves? \:\(


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#231253 - 06/16/08 04:30 AM Re: Is there a connection?? [Re: Lee73]
chrty Offline
New Here

Registered: 04/12/08
Posts: 27
Loc: new york
June I have been married for 22 yrs now 2yrs together before that. I did not know something was wrong until 3 yrs into the marriage. His sexual drive had changed considerably. Also the same thing happened to me. He didnt want any children. My eagerness to show the support and love I have for my husband pressed me forward.
I would not have married a man whom did not want children or know GOD for that matter. Both changed after that. I felt that this was my husband being anxious over having children. I believe its fear of not only having to protect himself he would have to protect another human being as well. A fear that even people whom never have been raped also carry with them.
You sound like me so many years ago. I hope that doesnt bother you.
FOrget the question why do you stay? Figure out how you got here first. That is the best question. also this ,how many STOP signs you barrled through. I know I am guilty of that.STOP SIGNS to me are those times you said why is he doing that ? oh that's ok. I love him anyway.
WHEN people ask why do you stay It lessens the person you are. Anybody on this site should know that. It makes you feel like you have to give a reason for staying. It is the same reason a woman waiting for her husband in IRAQ to come home. You are faithful for the same reason.
In this LIFE with a CSA victim. Love is definetly a battlefield'

Before I get off my soapbox . I have this to say. I am 20 yrs behind you. I have endured many things I should not have. I am a victim of child abuse and never thought of my self first(a syndrome). I realize that played into all of this as well.
My husband does not think of me first ever. I can see he knows he is wrong but always takes the selfish road. Sorry for me But this is true and I must realize that.




_________________________
if i had to do it all again i wouldn't

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#231281 - 06/16/08 10:44 AM Re: Is there a connection?? [Re: chrty]
Junefriday Offline


Registered: 06/05/08
Posts: 113
Loc: Canada
Lots of people to acknowledge!

DAN - Thanks for the words of encouragement. I can't imagine what all of this has done to my H but can only react to what I see. I want to respect what he says (that he made a mistake in marrying me) and move on but I made a commitment to him to stand by him through better and worse. I can't back down even if it means that I have to soldier on by myself. Not sure exactly how I will do that though. All of the messages on this site have been wonderfully supportive and also clear in telling me that this is his battle to fight. I will tell him that I encourage him to fight in an effort to seek clarity for himself, that I will be there to support him through it if he wants me to, but that I will not be a doormat to him. I am far stronger than he knows or than he gives me credit for. He needs me in his life.

KINETIC1-Sounds like we have a lot in common! This is all knew to me as I found out in a round about way. I am still unclear on the facts let alone on how to deal with it. I too believe that love can heal all. I just am not sure if I have the right definition of "heal". My H just shows some of the behaviours and thankfully not all. However, he appears to be deteriorating and I don't want to see him fall apart. I think we need to figure out how to be the strength for them and for us, show our support but also take care of ourselves (which sometimes means we need to say we've had enough). But then again, I don't know.

CHRTY - I am so sorry if I offended you! I didn't mean for my question of "why do you stay" to come across as a judgement of any kind. I guess I was naively hoping to hear that things get better, etc. With messaging like this, I really do apologize if the intend of my question was lost in translation. I do want to thank you for the comment you made about "stop signs". I know I fell in love with my H because he was a good person and he brought so much to my already great life. Now that I know about his CSA, I still believe that he is a good person and that he brings a lot to my life. I just wish it was easier and am frustrated because things can get better if he starts learning to understand what is driving some of the negativity he has now. But, I know I can't be the one to make it happen.

_________________________
"Love comes to those who still hope even though they've been disappointed, to those who still believe even though they've been betrayed, to those who still love even though they've been hurt before.”

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#231340 - 06/16/08 04:32 PM Re: Is there a connection?? [Re: Junefriday]
chrty Offline
New Here

Registered: 04/12/08
Posts: 27
Loc: new york
No one here has offended me here. I have been treated well here. Actually I spoke with a close friend whom said this. I havent been able to shake it. Boy I gotta get better at writting. I was hoping to support you. I have had only encouragement from everyone here. I was hoping to do the same for you .

Stop signs are signs that your spouse gave you along the way. I know my husband did. I missed them all. Some I did see but, just kinda shewed them away. Maybe I was scared I dont know.
In any case JUNEFRIDAY I am sorry if I have offended you. I am proud you wrote about your feelings,I am proud you are here. I am encouraged more that anything JUST HOW MUCH YOU LOVE YOUR HUSBAND.
Be well JUNEFRIDAY. If anything please let me know how everything is going.

_________________________
if i had to do it all again i wouldn't

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#231353 - 06/16/08 06:21 PM Re: Is there a connection?? [Re: chrty]
Junefriday Offline


Registered: 06/05/08
Posts: 113
Loc: Canada
Thanks chrty! I am glad that all is good now. I do very much appreciate hearing your story.

Since I found out about my H's CSA I've been wracking my brains thinking back to the signs. Sure there were some. But you guessed it; I either cast them aside because they were minor issues or I loved him anyway, warts and all. I knew I wasn't perfect and didn't expect him to be either.But never in a million years would I have imagined this!

Believe me, I've been trying to hate him...it would be so much easier for me and maybe even for him. But I just can't. I can't stop thinking about the defenceless little boy, the confused teenager who acted out without really understanding why, and now the angry man who doesn't understand why he feels nothing for his wife anymore. It isn't his fault that all of this happened to him, but I'd be lying if I didn't admit to being angry that he isn't doing anything to take advantage of the support available. I'd also be lying if I didn't admit that it hurts me terribly to know that he can walk away from me without trying to understand why he doesn't love me anymore. But, I still believe that he deserves my love. I have faith that he came into my life for a reason and that I can be strong for a little while longer. I just hope I am not being too naοve.

_________________________
"Love comes to those who still hope even though they've been disappointed, to those who still believe even though they've been betrayed, to those who still love even though they've been hurt before.”

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#231393 - 06/16/08 08:41 PM Re: Is there a connection?? [Re: Junefriday]
chrty Offline
New Here

Registered: 04/12/08
Posts: 27
Loc: new york
No I feel your pain. I admire the love you have for him. I had this same conversation with myself in 1995.

Wake up Mr. JUNEFRIDAY this woman loves you!!!

_________________________
if i had to do it all again i wouldn't

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#231403 - 06/16/08 09:41 PM Re: Is there a connection?? [Re: chrty]
Trish4850 Offline
BoD Liaison Emeritus
MaleSurvivor<

Registered: 10/15/05
Posts: 3280
Loc: New Jersey
June,

Of course you can't make yourself hate him, that doesn't surprise me one bit. You can be angry and hurt and sad and confused, but hate? nope, that one doesn't enter into the equation. It's not in you to give him back what he's giving. You know the man you married; it's the one you're living with now who is the stranger.

You're absolutely right that you can't hear "you're fired" and then answer back with "well then I quit." But an exit review would be nice don't you think? I would encourage you to write that that letter to your husband. I think it's important that he hear what you have to say and want to say to him, if only he'd allow it.

June, you've mentioned a couple of times that your clumsiness is a problem for him and it seems that you're pretty accepting of that. I've got to say that from my end, that seems ridiculous! I've never been accused of being graceful either, as a matter of fact, I quite literally hit a wall probably every day, usually with my shoulder, but I have been known to walk right into it *lol* If anyone who supposedly loved me told me that was a deal breaker, I'd probably go psycho!

Please don't buy into nonsensical insults directed at you. A constructive conversation and a request for a compromise of something reasonable is one thing, but if all he has is that you're clumsy, he's really reaching!

ROCK ON..........Trish

_________________________
If you fall down 10 times, Stand up 11.

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#231480 - 06/17/08 11:06 AM Re: Is there a connection?? [Re: Trish4850]
Junefriday Offline


Registered: 06/05/08
Posts: 113
Loc: Canada
I agree Trish. The clumbsiness issue being an issue is a load of BS. So many of his issues with me are like that. If it weren't so hurtful that THOSE are the reasons why he wants to leave the marriage, it would actually be comical. Everyone he has talked to has told him how ridiculous these issues are, but he feels that they all add up to become quite significant. I don't disagree with him that it's the little things...but come on! And, he knew I was clumsy before he married me anyway.

I want to write the letter but I don't really know what to say. I think too, part of my writer's block is because I don't think he will even take it seriously. I fear that he will see it as just another one of my desperate attempts to get him to try to make our marriage work. Any suggestions on what I can say that will actually make him sit up and take notice?

_________________________
"Love comes to those who still hope even though they've been disappointed, to those who still believe even though they've been betrayed, to those who still love even though they've been hurt before.”

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#231545 - 06/17/08 09:02 PM Re: Is there a connection?? [Re: Junefriday]
Trish4850 Offline
BoD Liaison Emeritus
MaleSurvivor<

Registered: 10/15/05
Posts: 3280
Loc: New Jersey
June,

You're intentions and desires to make a marriage work aren't desperate, in my opinion. I think you owe it to yourself to be able to say 1, 3, or 5 years from now, whether you're together or apart, that you did everything you could. There are few things worse than looking back and thinking I should have. As for the letter, all you can do is write from your heart. Whether his sits up to take notice is something you can't predict or control but you will have done your best.

ROCK ON.........Trish

_________________________
If you fall down 10 times, Stand up 11.

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#231763 - 06/18/08 11:20 PM Re: Is there a connection?? [Re: Junefriday]
rchsweetie Offline
New Here

Registered: 04/06/08
Posts: 23
Originally Posted By: Junefriday

I want to write the letter but I don't really know what to say. I think too, part of my writer's block is because I don't think he will even take it seriously. I fear that he will see it as just another one of my desperate attempts to get him to try to make our marriage work. Any suggestions on what I can say that will actually make him sit up and take notice?


June,
I just happened to open the drafts folder in my gmail account, and found 3 attempts at this same kind of letter, before I finally settled on the final draft! My first draft was angry - mostly at his lack of a reaction, trying to bait him into feeling something, anything. It was pissy, bitter, and meant to provoke him into reacting. I didn't send that one, but my second attempt was calmer. It referenced the fact that I wrote (but didn't send) a mean letter because those were my feelings - but I didn't want him to hear that. I still didn't send that letter! The third was just mostly a rewrite with some different points.
By the time I had gone through all of these drafts, I noticed a change in myself. I needed to do all of that writing, to get through to my own true (or at least true-er) feelings. From there, I was able to know what i wanted to say.
I can tell you what I wrote. I could probably even find the LONG letter and send you parts of it, if you felt that would be helpful. But I would suggest that before you take me up on that, that you sit at a computer and just write. One of the great parts about writing a letter is that you can edit it. So it doesn't have to be coherent, it doesn't have to flow, and it doesn't have to be in perfect form at first. You have plenty of time to edit and change it.


Can I give you my gut instinct? I don't want to give you false hope. But if you can be as strong as it sounds like you are and that you want to be - I think this situation will turn out better than you are thinking it will right now. I think you need to be prepared for the worst (that the marriage is over) and move on - and I think the whole thing needs to play itself out (at the pace that it is supposed to)...but ultimately I DO think that your husband will eventually come back from this place that he is currently at. So I think the question for you to answer is, when he does, what kind of person do you want him to find out that he has married?

(my answer to that question when I needed to ask it, is/was, "a loving, caring woman who wants us to work on this together, but not someone who is willing to be treated this way, so if I don't have a partner, I'm moving on and taking care of myself")


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#231922 - 06/19/08 03:47 PM Re: Is there a connection?? [Re: rchsweetie]
Junefriday Offline


Registered: 06/05/08
Posts: 113
Loc: Canada
Thanks for the encouraging note rchsweetie, but yes what you said is somewhat dangerous as it does give me hope that may or may not be realized.

I have written a number of drafts to my H but they were in response to his desire to have the marriage end, BEFORE I learned of the CSA. So, I will likely go through a more drafts as my thought process has now changed somewhat. I can completely relate to initial feelings of anger, betrayal and wanting to say grow up and get over it because it is not all about you. But the more I learn, the more I realize that he is so very conflicted and confused, eventhough he doesn't know it.

I like your question of "what kind of person do I want him to find out that he has married". It is a particularly timely question because who he believes me to be is completely different from who I really am. I don't know how he came to the conclusions that he's come to though because I haven't really changed. I think he has brainwashed himself into believe that I am a certain type, almost so that it is easier for him to walk away. If I was truly how he is describing me, I wouldn't want to be with me either \:\)

_________________________
"Love comes to those who still hope even though they've been disappointed, to those who still believe even though they've been betrayed, to those who still love even though they've been hurt before.”

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