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#228398 - 06/01/08 09:54 PM I just don't know
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2503
Loc: Denver, CO
Pastor at my church has been preaching on service to God and experiencing His grace and power. Today he got to some of the 'heavier' parts of his message. Basically he looked out at the congregation and said "Why are you whining about your past? Your past is 20 years ago. Get over it. Let God remove it from you and get on with your life. Your whining will prohibit any real service." He went on to say other things, but, for some reason, I don't remember much else.

i'd be angry if a large part of me didn't agree with what he said. i've always wondered why God didn't remove the pain - or give me back the memories so i had a reason for the pain, could grieve, and get on with it.

For the past four years i have been their Worship Minister. From what i heard today, i think maybe it's time i stepped down. Funny thing - there was a church in Alaska that was talking about hiring me full time to be their Director of Fine Arts. i dropped them an email today, told them basically because of my CSA i didn't think i was the right person for the job, and that they need to find someone else.

Part of me thinks i should be angry. At myself - at my pastor - at God - at SOMEONE. But instead i'm numb. It's like "so what" - it didn't really matter anyhoo. I recognize that attitude - that's how i survived the years growing up.

Except i didn't grow up. i'm still a little boy hiding in the back of the closet hoping to live to see morning without new pain.

i've always said this is "why it's called faith". Now i'm wondering if i even HAVE any. or if any of it even matters.

m


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#228407 - 06/01/08 11:03 PM Re: I just don't know [Re: MarkK]
christianfather Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/04/08
Posts: 116
Loc: TN
I know how you feel. I even lost my church and minister because they didn't know how to deal with me.

Lately I feel like a little boy scared and hoping to live another day or for some one to rescue me. A few months ago I lost my faith and feel lost, isolated and alone.


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#228417 - 06/01/08 11:47 PM Re: I just don't know [Re: christianfather]
Freedom49 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 2723
Loc: Washington State
Christianfather
We have all at one time or another prayed "Lord I believe, help my unbelief". He will accept that and build on it if you let him.


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#228483 - 06/02/08 09:43 AM Re: I just don't know [Re: christianfather]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2503
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: christianfather
Lately I feel like a little boy scared and hoping to live another day or for some one to rescue me. A few months ago I lost my faith and feel lost, isolated and alone.

Yes. Exactly. Except i've pretty much given up hope for anyone to "rescue" me. IF there is anyway out of this hell - it will be up to me to find it and get out. Yeah, yeah - others can be signposts and point the way THEY TOOK - and maybe it will help. But maybe it won't.

What is killing me right now is i feel like i've lost my hope, my faith, my will to follow God. i still believe in Him, still believe He is the Creator and Giver of Life. My Savior, Redeemer, and Keeper of my soul. But i no longer feel Him near. And THAT is a feeling that is ripping me apart.

m


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#228487 - 06/02/08 10:06 AM Re: I just don't know [Re: MarkK]
KENKEN Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/25/07
Posts: 762
Loc: NOTHERN COLORADO
This topic has sure hit home for me at this point in my life/journey.

I have been questioning my faith in God recently more than ever. It is very evident that I am not living a Christian Life, like I am sure, that God wants me to live. Ever since my break-up with my GF, my emotions and actions are not grounded in christianity.

So this is where the "I just don't know" comes into my life. I am feeling like God is to blame for my present situation. I just don't know how much more pressure I can take before "cracking". I feel my cup of problems is full. My determination that I always feel I had is getting the best of me.

I hear you Mark, I do not feel near to God. I know he is there and I continue to pray and ask for help. But I am thinking because I am such a jerk/idiot that he is not even listening to me. Really need to try and get my life back on track. Boy, easier said than done.

Ken

_________________________
I AM A GOOD PERSON, I AM A GOOD MAN

From the Movie: Antwone Fisher

***WOR ALUMNI SEQUOIA MARCH 2008***

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#228558 - 06/02/08 06:27 PM Re: I just don't know [Re: KENKEN]
ktaylor7 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/02/08
Posts: 8
Loc: South Carolina
M.
I think your pastor was way off base. You can not just forget your past, no matter how long ago it was. If his wife had been raped, he probably would not tell her to just get over it.

God usually does not just snap his fingers and make our hurts go away. He usually will take us through recovery always being there to help us through. On the other end of recovery you will understand why God took you through it.

I had to confess to my pastor that I had acted out sexually and he forgave me. He knows my story and he accepts me just the way I am. I know CSA is not something men talk about but there are lots of men out there that are victims.

My church has a Celebrate Recovery ministry with a group specifically for CSA. We say, "you are as sick as your secrets." You can find a CR group close to you at celebraterecovery.com.

_________________________
Ken T.

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#228577 - 06/02/08 07:49 PM Re: I just don't know [Re: ktaylor7]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2503
Loc: Denver, CO
i was being considered for a full time position in a different church - just this past week. they wanted to know if there were any emotional issues that might pose problems. i told them i am recovering from CSA - but there are still issues that crop up.

i am not getting the position. CSA is the issue. AND the pastor of this new church tells me one of his children was molested by a relative in the past and he (the pastor) understands i have a long, painful road ahead in recovery; but he will pray God restores me to being whole.

...

if you had a pastor forgive you - i consider you very fortunate.

thank you or the website referral ... biy i don't think my trust is anywhere close to me opening up to any one else in the church. any church.


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#228582 - 06/02/08 08:00 PM Re: I just don't know [Re: MarkK]
Trish4850 Offline
BoD Liaison Emeritus
MaleSurvivor<

Registered: 10/15/05
Posts: 3280
Loc: New Jersey
Mark,

I'm probably the last one to be responding to a post about spirituality, but I think the words of your Pastor were terribly unfair to you and probably to a tremendous amount of others. Telling someone to forget about their past and just "get over it and move on" is not only ridiculous, it's cruel. Our past shapes our now and our future. Are we only supposed to remember and praise and build on what was good? The concept is impossible. It was all there and it all happened and all anyone can do is work with it, good or bad.

I hope you get through this Mark and can see that at the very least, the man mis-spoke and at worst, he's a foolish man to believe what he said.

ROCK ON........Trish

_________________________
If you fall down 10 times, Stand up 11.

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#228584 - 06/02/08 08:06 PM Re: I just don't know [Re: Trish4850]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2503
Loc: Denver, CO
i hear stories from people who have had "miracles" worked in their lives when they turn to God or ask for His help. drug addicts completely cured of addiction. diseases healed. compulsive behaviors stopped.

i'm starting to wonder what's wrong with me. how am i not asking right? what am i doing wrong?

i am hung by my own belief that says faith can move mountains.


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#228620 - 06/02/08 10:06 PM Re: I just don't know [Re: MarkK]
Pete2004 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/06/04
Posts: 958
Loc: North Carolina
Hey Mark:

It is easy for someone who has not walked in our shoes to say "just get over it". They don't know how deep within our being most of us want to "get over it".

It may be an appropriate admonition for someone who is wallowing in unforgiveness towards someone, or who had a difficult upbringing or had a financial or personal tragedy.

Mark, I spent 30 years, just trying to "just get over it". While I was able to develop some coping skills, the deep dark secrets and the raw urges to act out were always just below the surface.

While there are those who experience immediate life changing release, I feel this is the rare exception rather than the rule. Why does God allow this? It is a question that I want to ask Him one day. But until that day, we have to trust and do the best that we can.

Mark, I lived the "just get over it" mode of life. Taking every ounce of strength to appear normal, that is no way to live. I want freedom from this CSA and I believe with all my heart that we are on the correct path.

Concerning "Faith Can Move Mountains", yes it can, I am not exactly sure how to respond except to say, When we pray for God's will and His blessing, then we release "our ways to His ways". In your heart of hearts, is God calling you to instant release or a more measured and incremental release from this prison?

Allowing God to speak into those dark places in our soul is terrifying and shameful, I speak from experience my friend. Sometimes my prayers have been Lord, I am willing -to be willing -to be willing to (you fill in the blank). I wasn't even willing to allow myself to become willing to open up about the CSA. It has been a long 4 years running away from recovery once He showed me it was what I needed and a really good (and scary) 1 year in recovery.

Even though you feel like you are stuck or falling backward, I can tell that you are better today than last year.

Hang in there and don't let an uninformed or misdirected comment become a stumbling block to recovery.

Love ya man,

Peter

_________________________
There is a destiny that makes us brothers;
No one goes his way alone;
What we send into the lives of others,
comes back into our own. (Edwin Markham)

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#228622 - 06/02/08 10:09 PM Re: I just don't know [Re: Pete2004]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2503
Loc: Denver, CO
i don't "feel called" to recover at all
...
so maybe i'm supposed to stay here forever.

whoopie.


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#228695 - 06/03/08 09:24 AM Re: I just don't know [Re: MarkK]
pietie Offline
Guest

Registered: 01/23/07
Posts: 326
Loc: South Africa
hey Mark

I tried posting yesterday but I lost the 20 minutes of typing. So this is my opinion. i also believe we serve a Great God that can instantanuously heal people or take away their addictions or whatever. But I believe that is not the case with us.

I know that I can help someone going through the emotions we are. I know I can give them advise and walk a road with them in being healed (yes I beleive with all my heart We can be healed). But what if I were healed instantanuously? I would not be able to help people going through the same hell. How do you explain a colour to a blind person? So how do I tell you what to do if I did not walk the road?

Take heart my brother, it gets better. My best decision was to give al back to God. To live a life where He is the master again.
Is t easy? No.
Do I still struggle? Yes.
Do I still sometime blame God? Yes.
Do I believe He can instantanuously heal me? Yes.
Do I want Him too? No.

I am forgiven by God. I am not under the law anymore. I am living in His grace. If I stumble and fall I get up again because there is no condemnation anymore. I am weak but in Him I am strong. This might not be the answer everyone is looking for, but yes I too believe we should move on. We must let go of the past and the hurts because He came that we can have life and life abundantly. He paid the price, we need to take the freedom. Yes the issues will be there. You might feel far from God. Nothing happens by accident. You are not in the postiion you are in at church because of an accident. You are where God wants you to be!!! I have listened to some of your music. It carries an annointing. Please dont let the enemy keep you so busy focussing on all the other things that you take Your eyes off the One who already did it all!!! He came to set the captives free!!!

be blessed and remember this is my experience talking and not some book.

_________________________
Not Perfect, just forgiven

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#228742 - 06/03/08 01:21 PM Re: I just don't know [Re: MarkK]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
MarkK

ouch! is my initial reaction to your post. i've worked in music ministry full-time for 23 years, and some of the most dysfunctional people i know are 'spiritual leaders'. truth is, mostly they are mere humans, stewards of the creators purpose, they poop, have a tendency to smell funny, wake up in the moring with sheet face, no more or less importance than you and i, the president, or the waste management engineer. religion, in my NSHO is the elephant in the cosmic room and as such has a tendency to overinflate the importance of its purpose as an institution; many of the folks i mentioned earlier have huge egos. then again, so do a lot of non religious people too.

at any rate, blah blah blah.......

i remain unimpressed with the rantings of religious zealots who have cultivated a penchant for trivializing an incredibly complex process by watering it down to matter of 'getting over it'. pompous asses!

here's my experience: god does not 'take things away' from people. he engages them in an exchange: he holds out his hand, and allows things to be given. sometimes the things are given instantly, but for me, the exchange involved a loooong process of many years. it involved a lot of work on my part. there were stages to the surrendering process. sorta like: on your mark, get ready, get set and .............um,...........get ready, get set,......um, on your mark.......GO! no, wait a minute......on your mark......etc

sounds like you're somewhere right in the thick of it!

i think what glares at me most in reading this post, and correct me if i am misconstruing what i read between the lines, but, you seem to have an attitude that 'some day, when i am worthy, i'll deserve to work at that special job'. as if to say ' well, since i'm broken, i'm not good enough to be of service using the unique talent i was given to serve the world'. i mean, is that really our call to make? do we really see ourselves as so unworthy that we can't allow ourselves to honor the gifts we were given to share with the world? at what point do we become worthy enough?
hey wait a minute! why not NOW!

more of my experience: pain is a given; we are here for the crucible, so one of my most important tasks in life, with god's help, has been to change my attitude towards the pain. the notion of pain lives in the shadow part of me that drives my life and makes most of the decisions that impact my life, form and shape my life, and so that's where i am learning to spend most of my reflective time.

+ be mad [we have a right to be]
+ be numb [all you can do is accept this as where you are right now, and accept that this too shall pass]
+ be scared [but don't forget you are not alone]

keep the faith brother,

ron

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


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#228821 - 06/03/08 10:20 PM Re: I just don't know [Re: MarkK]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6875
Loc: USA
I ordered a book from Amazon titled: Legacy of the Heart: The Spiritual Advangages of a Painful Childhood, by Wayne Muller.

It just arrived yesterday and I haven't had a chance to read it yet. Maybe it will give us a lot of ideas as to what God is up to in our lives. Maybe we aren't really in a vacuum as we feel sometimes. Maybe there are or can be real advantages to having had the pain we have experienced.


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#228852 - 06/04/08 01:55 AM Re: I just don't know [Re: Pete2004]
Coach Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/05/07
Posts: 29
Loc: California
Reconsider Alaska and the position. E-mail them back and tell them your reconsidering.

Most "Westernized Pastors/Christians" have no existential idea of what it means to suffer with/for Christ! God have mercy upon these doltish characters, because I do not!

Amen and see you on the other side.

Coach


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