Newest Members
RepressedMem, jet_step, JimHouston42, GKB, MorganWut
12468 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
AndyP (48), Gaius (50), JoziSA (52), mmafan66 (48), nltsaved (36), RMM (52), Steve63 (51), zenboy (51)
Who's Online
4 registered (lapchinj, 3 invisible), 25 Guests and 5 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
12468 Members
74 Forums
64029 Topics
446832 Posts

Max Online: 418 @ 07/02/12 07:29 AM
Twitter
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 >
Topic Options
#22807 - 07/29/05 05:40 PM Discussion on suicide. ( TRIGGERS )
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
TRIGGER WARNING.

Firstly I would point out that at the top of the forums there is a post regarding the policy of MS toward suicide and threats of suicide, which I hope everyone has read.

"If you are considering suicide, read this"

http://malesurvivor.org/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=004654

This existing policy was created a short while ago when it became clear that MS is not, and possibly never will be, fully able to deal with potential suicides.
The links posted are however to specialists where specific help is available.

This doesn't mean that we are insensitive towards people with suicidal thoughts, and we wouldn't turn them away without doing whatever we could to help them. But we are not 'experts' in that field.

So, after this discussion started on the other topic I though I would bring it here and see what people think.
Can we improve the list of links? Is there something else we can do to make it easier to find the right help?

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

Top
#22808 - 07/29/05 05:45 PM Re: Discussion on suicide. ( TRIGGERS )
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
These are the posts from Jasper and Roadrunner taken, without any editing, from the MedicB4 topic.

Quote:
Jasper50
Guest
Member # 2631

posted 29-07-2005 10:58 AMJuly 29, 2005 10:58 AM

I am so terribly sorry for this loss. My heart goes out to his wife and children. But I call on the Board of Directors and Moderators to come up with some kind of mechanism in which these matters can be discussed.

Recently, I alluded to self-harm in a post. Shortly after this I noticed that MedicB4 was also discussing feelings about self-harm. Instead of immediately offering him assistance, I was embarrassed if the truth be known. Embarrassed because we are not supposed to have these feelings. Nor are they to be discussed.

I have to be frank here. It would be a disservice to his memory were I to do otherwise. And forgive me if this puts me in trouble.

The other day when I apologized for alluding to self-harm in a post, I deeply regretted that I did it publicly. And that I somehow was making another member seem responsible. But shortly after posting that message, I CALLED A SUICIDE PREVENTION HOTLINE. I got the number right here from this site.

So yes, one day I did not take action. I lived to embrace life again and even start a funny thread in the gay forum.

Somehow we must as a community find a way to be able to talk about self-harm, not in a threatening way, not in a triggering way (well, that's proably impossible--I'm triggered all over the place right now). But in some way that at least allows us to vent and maybe discuss our experiences in calling suicide hotlines or whatever.

Damn! I can't say what I think. I can't say what I feel right now.

I don't approve but believe me I understand. And that is the most awful thing I think any survivor can say.

I am so deeply sorry.

Got to go,

Jasper

P.S. Everyone who is disturbed by this, and who is even remotely thinking along these lines, try this number (in the U.S.):

1-800-273-TALK

They are good people. I talked to them on Monday. And heck--I may even call them again today. It doesn't matter who you call--just call dammit!

Jasper

**********************************************


roadrunner
Member
Member # 2590

posted 29-07-2005 12:16 PMJuly 29, 2005 12:16 PM

Jasper,

I was wondering much the same thing once I heard of Scott's death. It really hit me hard in the wake of other things that have happened here recently.

I too wonder if something can be done here about this problem. I take the point that the BoD and mods are not running a suicide crisis center here, and that this sort of thing is a lot different from just managing and focusing discussion among survivors of CSA. But I would like to ask if this can at least be looked at. Specifically:

* Is the suicide warning properly worded? Does it give a message that can be misinterpreted?
* Is there any way of establishing a kind of "safety net" here? I'm not sure what I mean by that. Certainly not any kind of formal counselling service, but just some way that someone in danger can be snagged before things get out of hand and helped to seek professional help. I ask because so many of us have very close personal friendships here, and might be more willing to speak to a friend here than to ring a hotline.

The guys at risk are our friends and brothers, so of course we want to do something - or see something done. But here are some points I think we all have to accept in this very sensitive and triggering area:

* This is a can of worms and for all kinds of practical - not to mention legal - reasons it may not be possible to do anything more. A website cannot save the world from boyhood SA and its consequences.
* It is not reasonable to ask the the BoD or mods to consult us or start a dialogue on this one. It they think things might require a fresh look, fine, but they are the trained professionals and are best equipped to handle such matters.
* The BoD and mods already have a pile of pending issues to deal with: 3-4 major items that I know of, and I assume there are others.
* It is not immediately clear to me how or if a discussion of points relevant to this issue can be pursued while maintaining the very important ban on threatening self-harm here.

Take care,
Larry

**********************************************

Jasper50
Guest
Member # 2631

posted 29-07-2005 01:21 PMJuly 29, 2005 01:21 PM

quote:It is not immediately clear to me how or if a discussion of points relevant to this issue can be pursued while maintaining the very important ban on threatening self-harm here.
Yes, Larry! That is the very predicament in which I find myself now. And I think your analysis of this situation is right on. It does indeed open an awful can of worms.

I only know for myself that this site is an integral part of my life. I can talk about things here that I can't talk about elsewhere. Not even in therapy. At least, I find I need to talk about it here first, kind of try it out, then I can maybe discuss it with my therapist.

So this place takes on a larger than life role in my life. When I made that stupid pronouncement about leaving, I was totally devastated the next day. To the point of self-harm. I thought I lost the only real group of people who understand me.

So when I called the suicide hotline on Monday, it was a counselor there who helped me see how ridiculous it was, in my case, to take my life instead of just saying, hey, I'm sorry, can I please stay.

But the reason I called the suicide hotline is because I made a promise to my doctor, my partner, my friends, to Larry, to my therapist, and to others that I WILL ALWAYS CALL SOMEONE WHEN I FEEL SUICIDAL.

And I guess that's the best we can do here. Make a deal with each other that we will call a suicide hotline when we feel that way.

God, this kills me so much right now. Because I know it sounds crazy but MedicB4 only started talking about self-harm after I mentioned it in my stupid "report the perps" thread.

Did he get the idea from me?

Maybe that sounds dumb. I know it's highly unlikely. But this is how devastating a suicide can be. So many people get hurt.

Reminder: Call 1-800-273-TALK in the U.S.

If you are in the U.K. please post the number there.

And please, if you are in Sweden, we need that number too.

God help us all. We will get through this. But I am so sorry for being afraid to speak to MedicB4 when he started expressing those feelings. Feelings that we shared. And that others here experience too.

Love you guys!

Jasper

P.S. Stay safe--please!!! Talk to someone--please!!

****************************************************************


_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

Top
#22810 - 07/29/05 06:57 PM Re: Discussion on suicide. ( TRIGGERS )
Sinking Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/26/03
Posts: 577
Loc: Took my ball and went home.
Dave - This is an important discussion. Might I suggest that the post on the Male Survivor Message Board is not obvious enough? There are four 'permanent' posts at the top of the page that I scroll by every time I come to the site. I hardly think that a notice to American Express cardholders should trump a notice to those who are feeling suicidal. The link to those who are feeling suicidal should be in BIG RED flashing letters, should stand alone, should be the first thing anyone can see on each and every page of this website.

MS has a mission, to provide support and resources for men who have been sexually abused. But we, the members here, are the core, the driving force behind the support that is given to our survivor brothers. Those of us who have found our way out of despair have a duty, yes, an obligation, to provide help and support to those who come after us. We all have a responsibility to do what we can to see that those whose shoes we've been in get to the other side of despair. We have to show that there is hope.

The survivors here and MS are limited in what we can do, this is cyberspace after all. I may not agree with the politics of this place all the time, but, ultimately, that is not why I come here. I come here to learn and to offer support where I can. Once again, I call all of the survivors here to arms. We MUST commit to surviving, we must commit to life, we must commit to offering help and support and assistance to our brothers who are in despair. We MUST let them know that there is hope, that the pain will go away and we must be instrumental in making that happen.

I want to hold you all close and make the pain go away. - John


Top
#22812 - 07/29/05 07:20 PM Re: Discussion on suicide. ( TRIGGERS )
Leosha Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 3614
Loc: Right here
There is an 'At Risk' forum. That would perhaps be more appropriate place to post of suicidal thoughts, if at all. Unfortunately, it is a selection process to go there, you must ask permission to access it and I would think it could take a day or two to have access.

But the fact is, this place can NOT be responsible for saving suicidal people. And talk of it, talk of self harm and 'ending it' triggers the shit out of other people here. I know of an incident in the members forum not to long ago, of someone making a post that was taken as suicidal by at least one member here and a moderator. Both responded to this person multiple times in a short span of time (it was in the middle of the night), and also PMed the person several times. I have my own opinions of that post and that situation. But I also have my own opinion of the two people, the member and moderator who were trying very hard to help this person. This person could have asked for no kinder, gentler and decent persons in the world to help him. And both were also quite upset and triggered greatly, feeling 'obligation' to continue responding to this person, to not go to bed or leave the computer, for fear that when this person do respond, they would not be there to respond back to him.

I think the situation with 'medicb4' shows that there will be times when a suicidal person will NOT talk of it, and will behave seemingly normal up to the point of doing their act.

This has been a hard week here, harder for some then others. I did not know medicb4, although I had responded to a few of his posts. I knew Jake, but not as well as many others. But for all of us remaining here, there is pain, upset and anger. I worry that such discussion as this will 'stir it' more and not allow the scab to form to begin healing from this.

And I do agree that the 'suicidal resources' post needs to be at the top of all the forums, and highlighted somehow in different color or something. That is all I wish to say on the subject.

Leosha

_________________________
Avatar photo in memory of my younger brother Makar.

"Human salvation lies in the hands of the creatively maladjusted."~~~Martin Luther King Jr., 1963

Top
#22813 - 07/29/05 07:34 PM Re: Discussion on suicide. ( TRIGGERS )
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
I echo Leosha here, but I think that these topics should just be moved to unmod forum.

The reason I say this, is that there are vulnerable members here, some are away at the moment, but it will scare the hell out of them.

It is also not very good for the lurkers who may be wanting to make a first step and join, yes, I know the point is relevent, but I think it should be in a safer forum.

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

Top
#22814 - 07/29/05 08:06 PM Re: Discussion on suicide. ( TRIGGERS )
RobertC Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/13/05
Posts: 18
Loc: Decline to state
About four months ago I called the suicide prevention hotline. I kid you not, they put me on hold. I started laughing about the sitution. It had such a Rodny Dangerfield quality to it. The laughing broke my mood. I am not a fan of comedy. However, this just worked.

A friend of mine once told me that he had clled the suicide prevention hotline and they had put him on hold. I always, sort of, doubted that it had happened. After my experince, I know he may have been telling the truth. The friend I mention shot himself, and died, about four years ago; while studying for his bar exam.


Top
#22816 - 07/29/05 08:28 PM Re: Discussion on suicide. ( TRIGGERS )
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Jasper, I am not trying to suppress anyones feelings, but as we know, sometimes a certain word can push someone over.

There are a lot of things that have happened in this place that you are not aware of, and I sure dont want to see anyone else go.

Everyone is unique in their perception and makeup, but other things are happening also.

I just do not think this subject should be in the main forum, because the vulnerable ones can take it all wrong.

For ppl who really know me, I tried it at 11 and nearly did it, and then again at 14, the magic numbers, then the guy next door to me as a kid gassed himself, and I was his sons best friend.

The nature of abuse does silence us, and sometimes it is not so apparent just how bad a person may feel.

I have read his posts, the first thing I did when I heard the news.

I just dont want anyone else hurt,

regards,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

Top
#22819 - 07/29/05 08:53 PM Re: Discussion on suicide. ( TRIGGERS )
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Jasper, things happen in here, and I dont like this topic being discussed in this forum, and I am not going to turn it into an argument.

Things go on in here, like ppl make a comment without thinking how the other person will take it, I, on the other hand reread my posts, and I am careful to not hurt or put false feelings out.

Some ppl have made comments to others who have taken great offence, and you can guess who picks up the pieces cant you.

I am sick of doing it, and it saps me sometimes, but I carry on because I care, and I am here for others when they need me, just as they look after me, and I am eternally grateful to these guys.

The mods do a lot of work behind the scenes here, and we do not always have an idea how hard it can be for them to deal with things.

This has been the worst week of my life, I lose my little brother Jake, and the last words he said were, wont be at the compt ste, but i be bak when i can and i will be better and we all will get better together.

I just think the main forum should be about recovery issues, and you may think I do not post so much in this forum, but I never post hurt here,I leave that to members forum.

Peace,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

Top
#22821 - 07/29/05 09:37 PM Re: Discussion on suicide. ( TRIGGERS )
demonboi Offline
Member

Registered: 05/14/05
Posts: 228
Loc: East Coast


_________________________
Every corner, every city
There's a place where life's a little easy
Little Hennessy, laid back and cool
Every hour, cause it's all good
Leave all the stress from the world outside
Every wrong done will be alright
Nothin but peace, love
And street passion, every ghetto needs a thug mansion

Top
#22822 - 07/29/05 09:41 PM Re: Discussion on suicide. ( TRIGGERS )
lostcowboy Offline
Member

Registered: 11/10/04
Posts: 797
Loc: North Texas
I think it would be very good to have a self harm forum like they do over at Pandora's Aquarium. MedicB4 was a member there but he did not use that forum. After finding out that MedicB4 had passed away I checked his last posts, and sent one to Lloydy that was related to his passing away. 20/20 vision is always perfect, but if I had read that message on Tuesday, I would have passed it over, the way he wrote it I thought he was talking about something he had done in his past.

_________________________
"Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend." - Albert Camus
Pretty much my life as I have posted so far. Triggers!

Top
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 >


Moderator:  ModTeam, TJ jeff 

I agree that my access and use of the MaleSurvivor discussion forums and chat room is subject to the terms of this Agreement. AND the sole discretion of MaleSurvivor.
I agree that my use of MaleSurvivor resources are AT-WILL, and that my posting privileges may be terminated at any time, and for any reason by MaleSurvivor.