Newest Members
Anony_mous, Drew6991x, Miro, jj843, The Abyss
12364 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
Bear (42), BoyNoMore (56), Daniel_05 (40), James Landrith (44), john kay (41)
Who's Online
3 registered (Don Laufersweiler, CCDC, LPC, 2 invisible), 20 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
12364 Members
74 Forums
63542 Topics
443967 Posts

Max Online: 418 @ 07/02/12 07:29 AM
Twitter
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5 >
Topic Options
#226405 - 05/24/08 07:03 PM Do feelings have color?
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
Sorry - didn't know what else to title this one.

I remember hearing at a seminar once that feelings were neither right nor wrong - they just simply "are". What matters is what is done with them. The actions that follow are what carry the real value or weight.

I'm not sure how I feel about this. What about the rest of you out there. Can feelings be right or wrong? Or are they simply "feelings" - neither good nor bad - right nor wrong?

M


Top
#226409 - 05/24/08 07:10 PM Re: Do feelings have color? [Re: MarkK]
GateKPR4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/28/07
Posts: 955
Loc: North Carolina, USA
I think feelings just are. Probably depends on what we learned is appropriate for our culture & situation.
Some mourn death feel sad and cry, get angry. Other cultures celebrate death and throw parties and parades.

_________________________
I'm a normal person dealing with abnormal experiences.
The greatest discoveries we will find within ourselves.
Ricky
__m_τΏτ_m__
|| || || || || || |

Top
#226455 - 05/24/08 11:14 PM Re: Do feelings have color? [Re: GateKPR4]
terpprm Offline
Guest

Registered: 06/15/07
Posts: 312
Loc: Elyria, Ohio
i believe that feelings just are. but to me, what matters is what you do with those feelings. there is a right and aa wrong way to show your feelings as well as a right and wrong time and/or place to show those feelings. so yeah, that is my thinking.

_________________________
My Story

Top
#226459 - 05/24/08 11:28 PM Re: Do feelings have color? [Re: GateKPR4]
ericc Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/04/08
Posts: 1962
Mark,

If there is one area where I have learned the most in therapy, I think it would be in regards to feelings. A couple concepts that I have held onto would be the idea of "emotional intelligence", that is to say that one can feel and understand the nature of what they are feeling and identify the feelings and have a sense of where these feelings are coming from. Also, the idea of an "emotional bucket" has resonated as well, the idea being that if you don't deal with your feelings and emotions, you just let them build up; it is like you are filling your emotional bucket and it can get to the point where the emotions fill up and tip over the bucket so to speak, creating whatever mess may be (I am sure most of us have been there and can relate to this).

As far as if feelings can be wrong and bad? I do think one can get caught up in negative feelings and emotions, or thoughts for that matter, but in the end these are just that; thoughts, feelings and emotions. What is more important is what one would do with these. I think many or actually most if not all people have feelings and emotions that they feel are wrong or strange or whatever. Sometimes it is even really hard to understand the nature of where they may be coming form. But if they lead to negative actions or behaviors, that is really when it is a problem I think. Feelings and emotions can be a powerful tool in helping to understand one's self, but it can take time to figure out where they are all coming from and what they all mean (heck, it is probably a lifelong process of growing). These are my thoughts on the matter at least.

Eric


Top
#226533 - 05/25/08 09:46 AM Re: Do feelings have color? [Re: ericc]
hogan_dawg Offline
Guest

Registered: 03/26/08
Posts: 492
Your seminar was kind of wrong, about right and wrong, sorry. But it was kind of right about feelings just 'are'.

Feelings can be right or wrong in that some feelings are quite warranted, justified, reasonable and understandable. For example, I can feel quite rightly angry that I was raped. I can feel righteous anger, and rightly feel shame. The emotions make sense in our culture.

Here's what I mean: Your feelings can be quite 'right' or 'appropriate' given the context of your experience. Murderous rage because someone shortchanges you two pennies is 'wrongly' placed rage. Even the most hardened reader will have to admit that if one feels murderous feelings over two pennies then the issue deserves more examination and thought. It deserves therapy. That said, murderous rage because someone rapes you is 'understandable' rage. Calling it 'neither right nor wrong' sort of invalidates your whole experience, and carries with it the unfortunate suggestion that if you just were 'less sensitive' or 'less testy' you'd accept your rape like a good little boy. I say screw that, it's a bunch of crap, and your rage is quite rightly felt.

"I am quite rightly angry I was raped" sounds far more correct than "I am choosing to be at home with my rape", which sounds plastic and sterile and clinically dead. See what I mean? Or how about "I am quite pleased that I was raped and beaten. Being raped and beaten makes me quite happy" Does that sound absurd to you all? It sounds weird to me. Now this doesn't mean that if you felt pleasure during a rape that the feeling is wrong. But if you examine yourself you'll find other feelings accompany that pleasure like perhaps some uncomfortable anxiety. Understanding your feelings means you have to examine all of them, together, as a whole, and make sense of them. Not easy.

The issue might be 'qualia'. Does the 'feeling' or 'quality' of a feeling change our mental life? (Yes) And can you change the quality of that feeling? (Certainly Yes)

Feelings can compel you into action. They are outcomes of evolution and they adapted for good reasons. You need emotions to inform you sometimes. They are additional information. Humans are informavores, and a good informavore seeks out information and eats it up. You should gobble up these feelings to help you understand yourself.

How you use that information is up to you.

You can be compelled to act on every feeling (childlike, addictlike). Or you can reflect on your feelings, then act (adultlike) - this is called 'metacognition'.

Shame, guilt, anger, are all there to tell you what's what. It's up to you to interpret them.

Our culture eschews some feelings, or talk of some feelings. So most of us aren't very good at talk and thought about feelings. Therapy is there to help you learn to think and talk about feelings.

Moreover, it is also true that the more you learn to think and talk about your feelings, the more 'attuned' to your feelings you become. Hanging out here and talking with people about your feelings will help you become more attuned to your feelings and eventually, the hope is, you learn to trust them more.

Finally, once you learn to trust them more, very often your feelings become 'tempered' or 'softened'. The therapy won't remove these unpleasant feelings from your awareness, but it can remove the 'sting' and the tendency to immediately act on your feelings. So getting back to our original example, things can change after talk and therapy such that I can say I no longer feel shame for what happened to me because I was not the agent of the shameful act. And though I might get 'pangs' of shame, my new found understanding can temper that feeling so I'm no longer debilitated by the quality of that feeling.

So, to sum up: Feelings are informational artifacts. They inform you. You learn to interpret feelings. Your competence at interpreting them is not unchangeable like intelligence is unchangeable, rather, you can learn to interpret your feelings by exercising thought and talk about your feelings. Once you're competent at 'getting' your feelings, you can find their intensity and power are more appropriately placed.

Sorry to be such a smarty pants but it's a tough topic that needs a dissenting view.



Edited by hogan_dawg (05/25/08 11:37 AM)
_________________________
I can say unequivocally that the lie of "To truly heal you must first forgive" has derailed more victims than the abusers themselves.
Andrew Vachs, 2003

Top
#226543 - 05/25/08 11:12 AM Re: Do feelings have color? [Re: hogan_dawg]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 1988
Loc: durham, north england
funny you should mention Qualea there Hogan, and equally odd in a topic about feelings and colour.

Because I am synaesthesic, ---- more specifically colour/tactile synaesthesic, feelings for me very literally have colour as an intrinsic part of their experience. Personally, i often find myself physically sitting their while certain feelings happen to me, ---- much as I did in my abuse, and for me, the process of recovery and therapy doesn't just involve understanding where those colours and feelings come from, but actually finding ways I can physically deal with them, ---- either personally through synaesthesic meditation exercises, or by creating other feelings impressions instead of the ones I've got, ones that are more useful to me.

as far as appropriateness and culture go, I'd personally say, ---- as a semi-existentialist, culture can go and take a running jump, and it's all up to the individual. this isn't to say it's easy, or that someone else ---- like a t, isn't often needed to help manage someone's feelings, but that ultimately, it's down to the individual not any other influence. Yes, there are things people have been taught to feel or think about while growing up, but these aren't absolutes, and ---- often with the right sort of advice, can be got rid of if someone wants to, ---- though that process certainly isn't easy.

About feelings being right or wrong, I've had long arguements with my friend the counceler over this. She claimes feelings aren't ever wrong, even the ones which cause great suffering to the one experiencing them.

I on the other hand would say feelings are wrong if they hurt. Symple as that. I'm not saying all feelings should feel good all of the time, ---- as everyone here knows, it's often necessary to feel some bloody awful things in order to do the recovery thing, but these are like tiring your muscles out doing physio therapy after some accident, in order that you heal properly and ultimately end up stronger and feeling better in the long run.

I'm really sorry for the long and detailed wrant, ---- this topic was really interesting and got me thinking, which is a good thing, though probably not for everyone who has to read all this drivel.


Top
#226545 - 05/25/08 11:48 AM Re: Do feelings have color? [Re: dark empathy]
hogan_dawg Offline
Guest

Registered: 03/26/08
Posts: 492
Oh gosh don't worry Dark Empathy about your rant - it was good and nice to read someone else caring about these matters.

Yeah I'm cool on the 'right-wrong' issue. The problem is that in discussing feelings in the context of 'right-wrong' we're perhaps walking into a field of error. So I'll sidestep that issue. \:\)

My take on it is that emotions are there to inform you. My take on it is that culture is there to inform you. And your thoughts are there to inform you. It's a potpourri of information, and you can eschew that information at your own peril.

So, when I feel feelings that hurt, I can choose to feel them and comprehend and absorb them and integrate them into my being, or I can choose to say "Oh that's a negative feeling so I'll choose not to feel it, or to ignore it". That's not what you're saying, is it? Probably not. We could probably agree that sidestepping our pain because it's 'wrong' won't work very well. Why? Because you can't lie to your body. Your body has the feeling to inform you. And if you shut it down because it hurts, that's a form of dissociation, and we all know what happens with dissociation. So are you saying that IF you feel pain, it's undesirable, and worthy of change? Are we on the same page in that regard? For me, the pain is real, right, and needs acknowledgment in order to afford healing. Once I 'get it', I can change it if I like. Or, in the case of my anger, I choose or elect not to change it, because I believe in the value of anger to compel my action.



Edited by hogan_dawg (05/25/08 12:08 PM)
_________________________
I can say unequivocally that the lie of "To truly heal you must first forgive" has derailed more victims than the abusers themselves.
Andrew Vachs, 2003

Top
#226546 - 05/25/08 11:52 AM Re: Do feelings have color? [Re: dark empathy]
GateKPR4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/28/07
Posts: 955
Loc: North Carolina, USA
rant all you want thats what we are here for. This is still a tough topic for all of us, as stated in a couple of the posts "its what we do with the feelings" this is the key to unlocking the recovery process. I have anxiety issues about being outside in sight of everyone even in my own back yard. I feel they are watching me or going to judge me. Is this rational or not. Its not - they are all out there just like me and not out to harm me so its a false reaction to a feeling. I have to tell myself this and go ahead and crank up the mower and just do it. After getting over the first false feeling the rest of the day goes pretty good and I just go about doing what needs to be done without fear & anxiety.

_________________________
I'm a normal person dealing with abnormal experiences.
The greatest discoveries we will find within ourselves.
Ricky
__m_τΏτ_m__
|| || || || || || |

Top
#226548 - 05/25/08 11:58 AM Re: Do feelings have color? [Re: GateKPR4]
hogan_dawg Offline
Guest

Registered: 03/26/08
Posts: 492
Yeah I get anxiety about going outside my place all the time. By other people's standards it's completely wrong. By my own standards it's completely wrong. But in the moment, when the anxiety is high, I don't go outside. I basque in my insecurity and let it run through until I talk myself out of it. lol

Then I go outside anyway - I make myself go because I know it's necessary in order to change my feelings. I'm slowly getting better. Slowly.

"Feelings are wrong if they hurt" - I can dig that and I get what you mean. \:\)



Edited by hogan_dawg (05/25/08 12:13 PM)
_________________________
I can say unequivocally that the lie of "To truly heal you must first forgive" has derailed more victims than the abusers themselves.
Andrew Vachs, 2003

Top
#226562 - 05/25/08 01:20 PM Re: Do feelings have color? [Re: hogan_dawg]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 1988
Loc: durham, north england
I think Hogan, we are on the same wavelength, but coming at it from different sides. Let me use an example of what I mean.

Imagine you tare the muscles of your leg. It initially hurts, that's just logical. You can ignore it with pain killers, and perhaps you'll have to do some of that initially. However, if you just keep taking pain killers, things won't work and you'll end up thinking your leg is fine and just injuring it some more by standing on it and doing the muscles more damage.

on the other hand, if you just try and ignore the injury and go on with things, you'll feel lots of pain and probably end up collapsing.

What you actually need to do is get a physio therapist, ---- or similar, to help you get used to using that leg, so that the muscles grow back properly. The exercises you do in that physio might well be painful, but not half as painful or damaging as simply ignoring the injury would be. Afterall, without recovering properly, your leg might set badly and you'll end up hurting and injured for the rest of your life.

Yes, some pain is necessary for you to brecover, but only on a eutilitarian trade off business, sinse ultimately you'll have a more working leg, and feel less pain than if you did nothing about it.

all of the pain, the initial pain at your injury, and the recovery pain, is pretty bad, but some of it is necessary to avoid more.
GateKPr4 and his mower is a great example of this type of thinking.

I'm not sure if anger counts as pain or not. in fact to borrow a deffinition from my undergrad disertation, pain is any state of affairs which you do not wish to continue, but which circumstances force to continue, while your current state of perception persists. On this basis, your anger probably doesn't count as pain as long as your okay with feeling anger and it's useful to you.

My own experience with Anger was much less pleasant, sinse I passed several years being angry at the teachers who just ignored the fact I was being abused, ---- in fact almost contributed to the situation by chucking me outside at every oppertunity. the problem was, that just masked the real issue for me, and was a way of escape. Also, being angry takes a lot of energy for me.

As I said, for you things might well be different.

I'm sorry about yet another wrant, ---- this is sort of getting into my own area of research, which may or may not be a good thing, but probably i should try and keep it off the boards.

I'm interested to know what you think about "right" or "wrong" feelings Hogan, but perhaps another topic or a pm?

Btw, please feel free to disagree with me, I actually enjoy these sorts of discussions and I really don't mind people having different opinions. My tutor, who is a really learned man and someone I utterly respect has several opinions I disagree with, ---- but that's fair enough.

Oh heck, sorry about yet another wrant.


Top
#226574 - 05/25/08 02:25 PM Re: Do feelings have color? [Re: dark empathy]
hogan_dawg Offline
Guest

Registered: 03/26/08
Posts: 492
Ok well knowing you've read some about emotion I don't feel bad about dropping more poo on the table to help us get aligned (or muddled! :)). I'm an instrumentalist about emotions. Emotions are tools that help us think and act. But I want my emotions to make sense as a coherent unit - that coherence is vital to my sense of 'self'.

So using your pain-filled leg as an example, I believe if one does not acknowledge pain, feel it and remember that feeling, one will be extinguished by Nature. One may try to walk on it and fall down, for example. Or one may return to the man who held one's hand to the hot stove. Or one might forget the pain was acquired and repeat the behavior that caused the pain. Pain and memory here go hand in hand as tools that helped us adapt.

I am angry and I refuse to forget my pain, just as a Holocaust victim stubbornly refuses to forget their pain. It is integral to my, and I would argue, the Holocaust victim's, sense of self. If I were to feel anything else, such as 'acceptance', it would be a facade. It would be someone else. And it would imply that I am 'ok' with the act of rape. I can no more accept what happened to me and other guys than a Holocaust victim can 'accept' or be ok with what happened to all Holocaust victims. I can only 'accept' it in the weak sense that I acknowledge Life deals out some shitty hands and it's not my fault.

Rape produces anger because one was sexually violated without consent. As soon as one is free of anger, can one truly assert one was violated? Maybe a monk can do it. Can we mortals say we were violated without feeling the naturally accompanying anger? I dunno. I 'guess so',...but saying "I feel ok with it" just feels all wrong. Saying "I was angry when it happened but I'm ok with it now" feels like giving up my sense of 'me'. I just can't be 'ok' now with something that wasn't 'ok' then.

My head would explode should I think otherwise! lol





Edited by hogan_dawg (05/25/08 03:24 PM)
_________________________
I can say unequivocally that the lie of "To truly heal you must first forgive" has derailed more victims than the abusers themselves.
Andrew Vachs, 2003

Top
#226602 - 05/25/08 03:17 PM Re: Do feelings have color? [Re: dark empathy]
OKIE MIKE Offline
Member

Registered: 02/13/04
Posts: 982
Loc: HULBERT OK
as to your title
blue : sad
black or red: anger
yellow or white : happy

_________________________
MICHAEL

"I HAD NO SHOES THEN I SAW A MAN THAT HAD NO FEET"

"All I can do is be me, whoever that is"

Top
#226606 - 05/25/08 03:51 PM Re: Do feelings have color? [Re: hogan_dawg]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 1988
Loc: durham, north england
As I said Hogan, I'd agree with you about pain being occasionally useful in the prevention of more pain.

I remember for example being about three, and my mum explaining to me that I should always run the cold tap before the hot one. To show me she ran the hot tap, and held my hand close to the flow so that I could feel the heat from it.

this was deffinately not pleasant, ---- but far less unpleasant than plunging my hands into scolding hot water by accident would have been.

but I'm sure lots of guys here will agree that there is so much pain that's purely unnecessary for anything, and only ever harmful.

On the subject of anger, if anger is important to you, as I said, fair enough. Myself though, I genuinely don't feel angry about what happened, ----- and interestingly enough have attended talks by several survivers of the Shoa (holocaust), some of whme were indeed angry, but some of whome were not, ---- one of them had even forgiven some of the camp guards face to face.

Personally, I can't really speak about acceptance, as I'm not really sure what it means, ---- but I can say i'm not angry.

On november the eleventh, I acknolidged what happened to me, that I was humiliated, insulted and basically gang raped for an extended period as a teenager. No, this should not have happened, and I would absolutely, totally and completely never want anyone else to ever go through what I did ever!

but much as I now wish differentlyhan , it happened. i do not possess a time machine, there is no way i can ever change the fact it happened.

there was no rhyme or reason to why it happened, nothing I could've done differently to stop it happening, other than by symply not attending that school in the first place.

I can't explain why, but I'm just not angry. Two of the people I've told about what happened have been angry on my behalf, ---- but i'm genuinely not. what i want to do, and what is important for me to do, is sort out myself right now, and the feelings I stil have, sinse they are either painful, or actually unhelpful, ---- like my fear of physical contact or of anything to do with S.

As to the identity question, I myself would think of my abuse, ---- much as I think of my genda, my hight etc, as contingent to, not necessary to my identity.

yes, they are all facts about me, but only have the significance I choose to give them.

On my door at uni I hung a sign under my name plate which said "the singing philosopher" Sinse those were what I felt the most important facts about me.

Even now I've acknolidged what happened to me, ---- that's stil not a sign I'd choose to change, ----- unless maybe the singing, writing philosopher" ;D.

Oh heck again! maybe that should be the singing, writing, irritatingly verbose philosopher, lol!

seriously I'm sorry for yet another wrant, but writing all that actually helped me to put things in perspective, ----- thanks Hogan, and as I said, feel free to disagree if you like.


Top
#226659 - 05/25/08 09:15 PM Re: Do feelings have color? [Re: dark empathy]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
well, i dunno that i'm any further along than i was - but i thank all of you for your input.

i guess like everything - it depends on the point of view of the one making the observation.

but whether feelings are "right or wrong" - all i know is they hurt like hell, and i'm tired of having them. i was better before i opened the past. now the only question is whether i can cram it all back in the little box i had it in originally.


Top
#226671 - 05/25/08 10:10 PM Re: Do feelings have color? [Re: dark empathy]
hogan_dawg Offline
Guest

Registered: 03/26/08
Posts: 492
Mark I don't mean to hijack your thread.

Dark Empathy - I think it sounds to me like you don't feel any emotions about the abuse. Is that right? Or is there an emotion that you do feel about the abuse? You've said you're not angry but you're coy about what you do feel about the abuse.

Here's where I'm going with this...

Regarding forgiveness, anyone who wants to forgive their sexual perpetrator deserves my admiration, and I'm happy there are Holocaust survivors who've attained such spiritual enlightenment. Yes there are exceptional people from the Holocaust who forgive their oppressors. They decided to forgive. But remember, forgiving causes emotions like tranquility, perhaps, or bliss. But itself is NOT an emotion about the abuse event(s), it's a belief bound decision that causes feel good feelings.

Further, to decide to put your energies into your own healing and not 'feel' anger about the abuse is a wise decision. But is it an emotion? Hmm.

My abuse started at 2.5 years of age by my Father. It was integral to my development. I was shaped by years of physical abuse and scapegoating and made out to be insane to the rest of my family by a demeaning, crazy making Father who called me 'bastard'.

Now I'm leaving this earth before I have the time in my life to heal myself. I might forgive, but that'll be for me, not for him. And I expect to remain quite angry.

To feel anything except anger is preposterous for me. I can't imagine how feeling merely 'peevish' or 'sad' or 'glib' or 'giddy' or 'nothing at all, numb, emotionless' would be substitutable emotions that truly do justice to the circumstances. Feeling nothing at all wouldn't be rational. My emotion of anger is the only feeling that makes any sense. And I trust my feelings - raw and real.

And if I were raped by a bunch of guys, I'd be angry.

I think with therapy and time, maybe we go over the same ground so many times we get fatigued with all of it and throw in the towel and get tired of being angry. I don't know. But if pressed to share an emotion that sums up the emotional product of a childhood rape, anger seems a sensible item for inclusion on the list. The other emotions just don't seem 'apt'. Betrayal is a close second.

My point, Mark, is that if you feel pissed off and confused and all messed up, that's your body telling you that something worth being pissed off about happened to you, that something confusing happened to you, and your body and brain really disliked what happened to you.

Listen to these feelings - understand them - they're real. And they prove to you, inside yourself, that something really ugly happened to you. I also think once you open 'the box', as you say, you're stuck with the emotional fallout. But you can handle it. As Dark Empathy is suggesting, maybe there's a less confusing time ahead - one filled with more healing.



Edited by hogan_dawg (05/25/08 10:49 PM)
_________________________
I can say unequivocally that the lie of "To truly heal you must first forgive" has derailed more victims than the abusers themselves.
Andrew Vachs, 2003

Top
#226677 - 05/25/08 10:46 PM Re: Do feelings have color? [Re: hogan_dawg]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 1988
Loc: durham, north england
Mark, your welcome for my response, as I said, this is a really interesting topic.

I really hope you can find a way of dealing with what's come out of that box. I tried reboxing my own stuff back in the first year of my degree, ---- destraction is a wonderful thing, but I don't think i'd be in half the mess I'm in now if I'd done the recovery then, six years ago, rather than trying it now. I admit I've also really wanted to find that box again, ---- but there are days, ---- like yesterday, when I somehow think it was stil worth it, and I really hope you can have one of those days, you deserve it.


Hogan, I'm really sorry if you thought I was making a recommendation or claiming that everyone should feel what I feel.

were I in your situation, it's entirely possible I would also feel as angry as you, ---- and I totally understand why you say your abuse feels like part of your identity.

I'm truly sorry to here of your circumstances and what happened. As I said, I don't think there's a right or wrong way, just useful or unuseful, ---- and it sounds as if your anger is useful to you, which is certainly a good thing.

just to considder my own feelings though, admitting that my abusers were people at all, and not some kind of natural desaster, ---- and even worse, admitting that my abusers had feelings has been a difficult process for me.

My T actually suggested that as a defence mechanism I denigrated my abusers to the status of things, so that they could be more easily coped with.

I'm just beginnning to recognize them as people, ---- people with feelings, but I stil find myself feeling no anger or desire to blame, ---- or for that matter forgive.

In fact, one of my friends actually put forward the idea that when people got into a gang, ---- as happened to me, they stop being people in all the important senses, and this might explain why I can't blame or feel anger, ---- heck, I don't even remember the names of most of my abusers.

the only thing I really feel about my abuse is regret. Sadness that it happened, sadness that I couldn't do the things that other teenagers do, ---- and an absolutely overwhelming sense of dispare and anguish that the closest anyone has ever wished to get to me has been to hurt and humiliate me.

but again, these are more caused by, than reflections upon my abuse.

Again, I'm sorry if I offended or upset you with my above response, ---- as you'll have noticed, my mouth, ----- or my fingers, do have a tendancy to run away with me.


Top
#226684 - 05/25/08 11:01 PM Re: Do feelings have color? [Re: dark empathy]
hogan_dawg Offline
Guest

Registered: 03/26/08
Posts: 492
Dark Empathy you haven't upset me. 'Tis ok. I hope I'm expressing myself without arousing too much stuff in you, my reader.

My wife and I were discussing the matter too and she notes that there's a mindset that anger is the first step on the road to healing. I'm probably battling that mindset in my own mind, and here on paper. Normative models aren't my favorite.

I'm like a lot of trauma cases in that I might be permanently damaged from this abuse. I can accept that. lol but it still pisses me off. lol

Well knowing that you feel regret and sadness is good for me to hear. My wife says she felt betrayal and grief and the pain of betrayal, and of course sadness. I share the sadness feeling too.

So if I were to sum up my feelings, they'd include pain of betrayal, anger at betrayal, and great sadness.



Edited by hogan_dawg (05/25/08 11:57 PM)
_________________________
I can say unequivocally that the lie of "To truly heal you must first forgive" has derailed more victims than the abusers themselves.
Andrew Vachs, 2003

Top
#226685 - 05/25/08 11:02 PM Re: Do feelings have color? [Re: dark empathy]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
Guys - thanx.
First - I don't feel anyone has "hijacked" my thread. I asked for opinions and I have gotten them. One of the greatest things about this place - most people are willing to share what they know or what they "feel".

Anger - I have more than my share. And a bad case of "fingers running away with me".

Now, as for whether or not this crap can be stuffed back into the box - I suppose time will tell. All I know is I'm tired of living with it. So it comes down to who wins - it or me.

Again, I suppose time will tell.

My family almost destroyed me. I don't care to have them continue. So the feelings must go back into the box.

M


Top
#226703 - 05/26/08 12:08 AM Re: Do feelings have color? [Re: MarkK]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 1988
Loc: durham, north england
Mark, I'm rally sorry if this suggestion is no good, but a thought has just occurred to me, ----- appologies if it doesn't help, but I really hope it does.

It strikes mee that your feeling overwhelmed at the moment. so okay, rebox everything. apply some elbow griece, sweep it all up, put it in a cupboard and shut the door and say there, it's in the cupboard, and then go and do something fun, ----- have some icecream as Roger would say.

but then, tomorrow, or the next day, ---- or with your T, when you feel comfortable, pick one thing from that cupboard, jsut something small, ---- such as a song you find triguring, or the memory of a place that bothers you and work on that, or you could try somethig miner and positive, like writing one good thing every day.

I'm really sorry if this isn't useful to you, and if I'm mtalking rubbish please just say so. it just seems to me from your posts Mark that your plunged deep into all of this and trying to deal with it head on, and desire to have it all stop and just ignore it. Perhaps there's a medium which will work for you?

appologies if I'm totally going in the wrong direction here, as I said, I can only speak from my own experience and what I've tried, which might be very different to you, this is just a suggestion.

Hogan, no, you haven't upset me, but you have made me think, ---- which is always a good thing.

I don't like the thought that you feel perminantly damaged by your abuse Hogan, ---- that doesn't seem good to me.

for me, as I said, it happened, and will have always happened, but I hope the regret will grow less as i begin to deal with this, sinse it's not a useful feeling for me, ---- quite literally feeling sorry for myself.

I'm not sure now, but I do hope there will be a time I don't feel sadness and loss whenever I here about a teenaged romance, --- heck, even whenever I read the sixth Harry potter book, ---- or come to that the fifth (harry did afterall get kissed, which is more than I can say).

maybe this will happen when i meet the right girl, I don't know, but I want to find out, hay! I just wrote when and not if, things must be improving, lol!


Top
#226706 - 05/26/08 12:47 AM Re: Do feelings have color? [Re: dark empathy]
mogigo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 1331
Loc: Colorado
I think DE has a good idea Mark, like him, I think you take on so much all at once. Pick one thing that is hard for you and work on that. All at once is so hard. I know that I have many things to work on, but breaking it down to smaller thing's has helped. I took the easier stuff first ;\)

Trust, then emotion's, then negative thought's, then...take you're pick.

Stay strong
Mike

_________________________
Thriving

Top
#226739 - 05/26/08 08:45 AM Re: Do feelings have color? [Re: mogigo]
hogan_dawg Offline
Guest

Registered: 03/26/08
Posts: 492
Hey Mark,

You said that anger is still in your feeling space. And you said "My family almost destroyed me. I don't care to have them continue."

Those are some pretty powerful feelings. I really get you. Ok.

Regarding feeling sorry for yourself and how this has affected your life. I am not sure there's a pat answer for resolving this feeling. Or the feeling of anger. Or any of the potpourri of feelings that overwhelms someone who walks down Survivor Road. You 'should' feel sorry for yourself, because after all, something horrible happened to you and it messed you up severely, in ways only you can truly know. It makes sense to feel sorry for yourself. It also makes sense to feel anger.

Crying is ok. Ok? Just cry. Or get pissed off. Punch the heavens and curse. You should experience whatever your body wants you to feel.

The point is not catharsis, which is all about 'getting it out'. That won't work. The point is, you should cry, get pissed off, feel regret or whatever you want to feel, because you haven't been allowed to feel these things for all of your life. Now you're allowed to feel all the pain that you've bottled up and have been unable (or felt unworthy) to feel. You have that right as a human being, and as a man, to feel from this experience.

You may find yourself crying at the drop of a hat. Don't worry, it's ok, this happens to a lot of guys and it's natural.

Who says you have to have a plan right now? Who says you have to have things in control?

You deserve some time to feel. That time is now. It hurts, it is unpleasant, but once you get to really experience your feelings, you'll have a better idea of where you want to go. You can tag them, name them, and try to get a handle on them when you are good and ready.

I'm feeling shame, where's that feeling come from?
I'm feeling rage, ok I know where that one comes from. Am I angry at myself too?
Was my mistrust of women related somehow? Why don't I trust anyone now?

Questions like this will come as the feelings bubble to the surface. Who cares if you answer them all? The growth is in the journey.

My ride was a roller coaster. And it still is a roller coaster of emotions. Some days I'm so angry at my family for jumping on the abuse bandwagon that I don't want to care. Same with my Father. But one tends to find ways to cope, for the moment, and get by. That's what survivors do. You'll do the same, in your own way.

Good luck.

Dark Empathy - thanks,...I don't think any human being gets away from childhood sexual trauma without permanent damage. The evidence shows that trauma (PTSD and it's variants) by it's very nature is nearly always permanent. Vietnam vets will always recoil when a firecracker goes off. And rape victims will always have trust issues, no matter how effective the therapy. Chernobyl victims are still watchful and wary. Male CSA victims will always find certain contexts and film and topics and touching 'triggering'. That's life. The best we can do is lessen the sting.

If there's one thing I learned from my 10 years of focused study in the area of child cognitive development, it's that you cannot mess with a child in the ways we were messed with, as developing children, and expect to be cured by an immature psychology. The mind is contained within a brain that was messed with while it was still developing - so the theory goes, the younger you are when the abuse happens, the more your developmental trajectory is thrown off. But trauma is still life changing for everyone. So if someone tells you you're going to be 100% cured, they're selling snake oil.

Acceptance means accepting this sad reality too. It sucks, but it's life, and we have to suck it up. We were all of us permanently affected by this abuse (to greater and lesser degrees, of course), I just happen to wear it on my T shirt in angry red lettering. Heh.



Edited by hogan_dawg (05/26/08 09:36 AM)
_________________________
I can say unequivocally that the lie of "To truly heal you must first forgive" has derailed more victims than the abusers themselves.
Andrew Vachs, 2003

Top
#226745 - 05/26/08 09:02 AM Re: Do feelings have color? [Re: hogan_dawg]
Nyjah Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/14/07
Posts: 610
I think that feelings can have color, words, images and sounds. But that's just me.


Top
#226747 - 05/26/08 09:03 AM Re: Do feelings have color? [Re: hogan_dawg]
GateKPR4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/28/07
Posts: 955
Loc: North Carolina, USA
when I started therapy 3 years ago I used to avoid the abuse like a pile of crap.
I would get close then the stink was too bad and would back off. One day after 2 years of this I stepped right in it and boy did it ever stink. Then I had to deal with it and thats when I found this site. I didn't even know how to identify all the emotions I was feeling and you guys helped. I guess if my feelings had color it would have been muddy or black. Thing is just cause I stepped in the crap doesn't mean I have to stay there. I can get out of the pile and wash off my shoes so it don't stink so bad. Then I can later go back and wash the crap off the floor a little at a time.
As I'm doing here today. I think the more I can get out of my system the better.
bottled up emotion can backfire on me and I got to dump it somewhere.

_________________________
I'm a normal person dealing with abnormal experiences.
The greatest discoveries we will find within ourselves.
Ricky
__m_τΏτ_m__
|| || || || || || |

Top
#226757 - 05/26/08 09:33 AM Re: Do feelings have color? [Re: GateKPR4]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
Punch? Curse? I once had a T get upset with me cause he couldn't get me to yell. I don't. I can't scream - it's not in me. As for crying - yeah, for a couple weeks I had been having some onslaught of tears - but I think I've finally got that under control again.

I guess feelings/emotions - they're ok to be felt - but not displayed. For me anyhoo. For you guys that can actually show them, more power to you! That's great. But I've tried that - and it only got me ridiculed and humiliated. So there must be another route.

I look at it this way - for over 50 years I've been able to keep that junk boxed up where it belongs. Ok, so I let the demon out for a while -- and it got to reek havoc for a while - but it's time for the thing to go back into the box for another 50 years.

From what I've seen - guys each handle their feelings in a manner that best suits them. One size does NOT fit all. Frustrating - I had hoped (for a while anyhoo) that there would be more cases of similarity I could draw from. But - we do have one thing in common - we survived that abuse in our pasts. Different abuses - different circumstances - but we survived. Now we get to encourage each other along the way.

So you guys that are able to actually deal with your emotions and your feelings - congratulations! That's a major accomplishment - one you could (and should) be proud of.

The suggestions that I box things up for a short period of time, then reopen them to work on them ... I'm just not there. Box them back up - yes. Shove them back into the cupboards - yes. then lock the cupboards and leave the shit up there where it's not getting in my way anymore. "Trust, emotions, negative thoughts..." I dunno. Trust only leaves you open to further injury. And emotions are only good for leaving you drained, humiliated, and angry. Negative thoughts ... well, I think the word "negative" explains that one away.

The further I get into my "recovery" the more alienated I become from everyone. I thought I felt alone before - it's getting worse, not better. So maybe, just maybe, if I shove all this stuff away - maybe I'll quit losing people to my bursts of emotion, anger, and confusion.

I appreciate the suggestions guys - cause I know they all come from your desires to be helpful. And that is awesome. Thanx.

M



Top
#226759 - 05/26/08 09:49 AM Re: Do feelings have color? [Re: MarkK]
hogan_dawg Offline
Guest

Registered: 03/26/08
Posts: 492
If a therapist gets upset at you because you can't yell, s/he belongs in a box. lol

You're saying you're not an emotive person prone to outbursts of emotion and I get what you mean. Sure I can see how any public display could potentially be received badly by others. I too haven't cried a lot in front of other men, for example. There's one point of similarity.

You mentioned that your crying came for a couple of weeks - an 'onslaught of tears' - yeah my crying also comes in waves. Interestingly, a couple of situations have prompted me to get choked up too when I least expected. But I too managed to get those handled in my own way. There's a second point of similarity. A lot of guys get waves of crying.

Yeah I wouldn't want to suggest a One Size Fits All approach for you Mark. I do want to just emphasize the 'normalcy' of what you're feeling. Whether they're in a box, or out on the table with a box of Kleenix, the emotionality makes sense.

Your approach sounds fine to me because you're content with it and you're making it work. But even though it sucks to be in recovery sometimes, please don't dump us Mark, because even if you find the process painful we certainly do need you - and you gotta have a little faith in the power of community and a group of men with the same feeling of 'alone'.



Edited by hogan_dawg (05/26/08 09:56 AM)
_________________________
I can say unequivocally that the lie of "To truly heal you must first forgive" has derailed more victims than the abusers themselves.
Andrew Vachs, 2003

Top
#226761 - 05/26/08 09:54 AM Re: Do feelings have color? [Re: hogan_dawg]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: hogan_dawg
Your approach sounds fine to me because you're content with it and you're making it work.

That may be taking it a bit too far, lol. "Content with it"? I see no other way. More like the least of all evils rather than content. I'd still rather it truly be over - but we know that's not gonna happen. As for "making it work" ... well, not unless I can get these damned emotions boxed back up.

But I do have a direction - so maybe that counts for something.

M


Top
#226763 - 05/26/08 09:57 AM Re: Do feelings have color? [Re: MarkK]
hogan_dawg Offline
Guest

Registered: 03/26/08
Posts: 492
I can dig it. Yeah 'content with it' was maybe a euphemism for 'stuck with it'? lol

Sounds like you're gonna need a strong box! Maybe titanium? lol Just thank goodness you're not a feelingless prig.



Edited by hogan_dawg (05/26/08 09:58 AM)
_________________________
I can say unequivocally that the lie of "To truly heal you must first forgive" has derailed more victims than the abusers themselves.
Andrew Vachs, 2003

Top
#226764 - 05/26/08 10:01 AM Re: Do feelings have color? [Re: hogan_dawg]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
Definitely a strong box. The thing that scares me the most right now - is that I will literally go crazy before I get this worked out. My hands shake - sometimes so bad I can't even hold a pencil. I feel like I'm hyped up on mega-caffiene and i don't drink the stuff. My pulse is fine - blood pressure is a tiny bit elevated, but nothing that bad or worrisome.

But inside - inside I feel like I'm coming apart at the seams. That's why it's SO important I find a way to contain this stuff again. If I lose it completely - I can't even get my mind to think along that line. I canNOT go crazy. I have to maintain control.

Strong box. Yeah. Otherwise they'll only need a pine one for me.


Top
#226767 - 05/26/08 10:11 AM Re: Do feelings have color? [Re: MarkK]
GateKPR4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/28/07
Posts: 955
Loc: North Carolina, USA
I have waves of crying also. I don't know if I get it under control or I just get cried out. As far as showing them around others esp. men thats a big NOT. I am surprised I can even say that I have waves of crying. There was a time when I would never admit to that.
Quote:
But inside - inside I feel like I'm coming apart at the seams. That's why it's SO important I find a way to contain this stuff again. If I lose it completely - I can't even get my mind to think along that line. I canNOT go crazy. I have to maintain control.

I can definitely relate to that statement.

_________________________
I'm a normal person dealing with abnormal experiences.
The greatest discoveries we will find within ourselves.
Ricky
__m_τΏτ_m__
|| || || || || || |

Top
#226769 - 05/26/08 10:12 AM Re: Do feelings have color? [Re: MarkK]
hogan_dawg Offline
Guest

Registered: 03/26/08
Posts: 492
Yeah before I acknowledged my abuse I was hospitalized twice for manic episodes, in restraints, under legal warrant, spitting blood from the Police arrest sequence, totally insane and in a mental hospital. I totally get what you mean.

There's a nice man in my group who gave his story last week. He's such a good guy. A really gentle person. But when he was telling his story he was shaking, like, his hands were shaking while he was holding his>


Edited by hogan_dawg (05/26/08 10:19 AM)
_________________________
I can say unequivocally that the lie of "To truly heal you must first forgive" has derailed more victims than the abusers themselves.
Andrew Vachs, 2003

Top
#226771 - 05/26/08 10:17 AM Re: Do feelings have color? [Re: hogan_dawg]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
Couple of lithium. That's my next route. Finding a psych that will give me meds. Just long enough for me to get this stuff wrapped back up. Then, if they're really good - and can help me not have to admit any of the shit happened - I'll keep taking them.

With or without the meds - the final goal is the same. Tie up all the trash and shove it off on a shelf somewhere and go back to the life I had when I didn't have to admit any of this ever happened.

M


Top
#226784 - 05/26/08 10:59 AM Re: Do feelings have color? [Re: MarkK]
hogan_dawg Offline
Guest

Registered: 03/26/08
Posts: 492
Fair enough. If the stink doesn't come back, you've got it beat! When that happens, and you're sure it worked, tell me how you did it. \:\)

_________________________
I can say unequivocally that the lie of "To truly heal you must first forgive" has derailed more victims than the abusers themselves.
Andrew Vachs, 2003

Top
#226788 - 05/26/08 11:08 AM Re: Do feelings have color? [Re: hogan_dawg]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
and I'm sure it worked? I won't be "sure it worked" until the day I die and I can say it never came back.

So I guess this means don't hold your breath waiting to hear from me...

M


Top
#226790 - 05/26/08 11:19 AM Re: Do feelings have color? [Re: MarkK]
mogigo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 1331
Loc: Colorado
Hey \:\) the thing I found with trust Mark is that I still get hurt sometimes with the people I trust, but the big difference is I know that it wasn't where they were coming from. There was no "I'm going to hurt this person", knowing what was in there heart has made the pain much less when the hurt came. I guess I've figured that this is a necessary evil to being unfrozen. I just feel like I'm alive now Mark, sure I have a hard time with the emotions too but at least I'm feeling something now.

I still don't cry in front of people Mark, even people I know would have absolutely no problem with it. But I sure do cry when I put my music on. I've got lots to cry about.

Lots of my trust to you Brother, don't ever think the issue is one sided

Stay strong
Mike

_________________________
Thriving

Top
#226792 - 05/26/08 11:23 AM Re: Do feelings have color? [Re: mogigo]
hogan_dawg Offline
Guest

Registered: 03/26/08
Posts: 492
Ok Mark you're in the driver's seat. Enjoy the ride. \:\)

Let me leave things way open: PM me any time, send me a private message, or whatever you like. Or a postcard from Tahiti with dancing native hula girls!

_________________________
I can say unequivocally that the lie of "To truly heal you must first forgive" has derailed more victims than the abusers themselves.
Andrew Vachs, 2003

Top
#226795 - 05/26/08 11:33 AM Re: Do feelings have color? [Re: mogigo]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: mogigo
but the big difference is I know that it wasn't where they were coming from. There was no "I'm going to hurt this person", knowing what was in there heart has made the pain much less when the hurt came.

That then must be the secret of trust. When the hurt comes, you hold onto the trust, not the hurt. You still believe you know the person's heart - you don't lose the trust because of the hurt.

I am so NOT there. I don't know if I ever will be. The people that hurt me, humiliated me, tortured me - were all people who "loved me beyond measure." And when I kept with the trust - the hurt kept coming back. I have no idea how you learn to let go of the hurt and hang on to the trust. I'm not even sure that it's even possible for me.

Originally Posted By: hogan_dawg
Or a postcard from Tahiti with dancing native hula girls

You ever get a postcard from me with girls on it - you can safely assume I have gone over the deep end and am locked in some mental hospital somewhere.


Top
#226843 - 05/26/08 01:16 PM Re: Do feelings have color? [Re: MarkK]
hogan_dawg Offline
Guest

Registered: 03/26/08
Posts: 492
I do not know your medical requirements. Nor your needs exactly. Nor your abuse history. So take these with a grain of salt.

The first is a new drug for PTSD.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11822998

The second is a new generation anti psychotic. It helps anxiety, helps get rid of the fear, anxt.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zyprexa

If you approach a doc he may suggest one of these. Probably not. But these are 'types' of drugs that can be given out to people with similar situations.



Edited by hogan_dawg (05/26/08 01:20 PM)
_________________________
I can say unequivocally that the lie of "To truly heal you must first forgive" has derailed more victims than the abusers themselves.
Andrew Vachs, 2003

Top
#226847 - 05/26/08 01:32 PM Re: Do feelings have color? [Re: hogan_dawg]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
then again, nothing might help
more likely the case
it's amazing. everyday i tell myself i can't take anymore, then everyday i take more. i deal with more. i don't know why. don't know how. just don't know.

and anymore i dunno that i care.
maybe i need sleeep


Top
#226855 - 05/26/08 02:03 PM Re: Do feelings have color? [Re: MarkK]
GateKPR4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/28/07
Posts: 955
Loc: North Carolina, USA
Zyprexa works great for me as a quick fix when I take a dive or get too manic. It is fast acting and not habit forming. I have used it many times to get out of a bad funk or hyper sensitive paranoid state. lol I sound crazy but hey thats the way it is.

Zyprexa stops racing thoughts high/low and really levels me out.
This is how it works on me. I can't say what it will do for you.

I can say from experience that it worked the fastest with least side effects than any of the 25-30 medications I have been on.

I currently take Lamictal 50mg. and its working pretty good.
I don't do well with SSRIs "prozac, lexapro, paxil, zoloft or SNRIs "Effexor" as they take too long to work and I have a hard time getting off them. They also made me emotionally flat as in feeling very little of anything.

One thing about Zyprexa is it has a tendency to cause weight gain. Thats why I only use it in crisis. Besides that long term therapy didn't work out all that well for me. But its a great short term fix.

_________________________
I'm a normal person dealing with abnormal experiences.
The greatest discoveries we will find within ourselves.
Ricky
__m_τΏτ_m__
|| || || || || || |

Top
#226858 - 05/26/08 02:09 PM Re: Do feelings have color? [Re: GateKPR4]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
thanx again guys.
if i get out of this funk or whatever it is i'm in - maybe i'll get with a dr and see if there's a med.
in the past couple hours my mood has been taking a nose dive
and i'm thinking maybe there is no real fix
other than either just living thru it
or not

i haven't gotten to the point of flipping a coin yet so i must be ok still, huh?


Top
#226864 - 05/26/08 02:46 PM Re: Do feelings have color? [Re: MarkK]
hogan_dawg Offline
Guest

Registered: 03/26/08
Posts: 492
You're still alive and that's a good thing.

It's like decking the block or shaving a head on an engine. The motor is never really exactly the same again. To prevent detonation, you have to cool it down somehow, swap the head gasket, or drive it differently. It won't be perfect, but it'll do the job. No need to toss the engine. With the compression raised, sometimes it'll run even faster.

Zyprexa or some other medication is a bit like adding methanol and water to your air stream - cools things down and lets the engine run without preignition.

Relaxation and doing things that make you happy is also like that.

You are anxious. You are depressed. This happens to men who have gone through what you went through. You know, some guys on here have gone through some horrific shit, and older guys than you and me, coming from that generation of guys who didn't talk much about their feelings. Some of them are real success stories who've become far more sensitive tuned in people than when they started.

This is hard serious shit man. It doesn't get any more serious. People here understand your situation. So nobody is going to bat an eye if you take a break or do whatever it is you want to do.

The flipping a coin thing won't work either. All you get from that is a whole lot of dead. And a tired thumb.

_________________________
I can say unequivocally that the lie of "To truly heal you must first forgive" has derailed more victims than the abusers themselves.
Andrew Vachs, 2003

Top
#226866 - 05/26/08 02:50 PM Re: Do feelings have color? [Re: hogan_dawg]
GateKPR4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/28/07
Posts: 955
Loc: North Carolina, USA
The problem with death is that you don't bounce back from it, and its forever. Feelings can pass.

_________________________
I'm a normal person dealing with abnormal experiences.
The greatest discoveries we will find within ourselves.
Ricky
__m_τΏτ_m__
|| || || || || || |

Top
#226869 - 05/26/08 02:55 PM Re: Do feelings have color? [Re: hogan_dawg]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: hogan_dawg
You're still alive and that's a good thing.

debatable

Originally Posted By: hogan_dawg
You are anxious. You are depressed. This happens to men who have gone through what you went through.

agreed

Originally Posted By: hogan_dawg
You know, some guys on here have gone through some horrific shit, and older guys than you and me, coming from that generation of guys who didn't talk much about their feelings. Some of them are real success stories who've become far more sensitive tuned in people than when they started.

another's success does grant local success

Originally Posted By: hogan_dawg
This is hard serious shit man. It doesn't get any more serious. People here understand your situation. So nobody is going to bat an eye if you take a break or do whatever it is you want to do.

so i've got permission. oh yay.

Originally Posted By: hogan_dawg
The flipping a coin thing won't work either. All you get from that is a whole lot of dead.

the problem being?

i'm sorry H_D. i know you're sharing because you care. i know you're being honest and real. i just wish i was in a place where i could receive it. but i'm not. truth is - i'm nowhere near that place.

maybe if i get thru this current mess i can come back and read your post and actually get the heart of it. i imagine that would be at least fair after you went through the effort of being real - i should go thru the effort of giving it an honest chance.

just ... right now ... ain't the time

Originally Posted By: GateKPR4
The problem with death is that you don't bounce back from it, and its forever. Feelings can pass.

Forever has a REAL NICE RING to it.
but don't worry - i'm not planning anything.
i just wouldn't turn down an offer right now...

}shrug{

M


Top
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5 >


Moderator:  ModTeam, TJ jeff 

I agree that my access and use of the MaleSurvivor discussion forums and chat room is subject to the terms of this Agreement. AND the sole discretion of MaleSurvivor.
I agree that my use of MaleSurvivor resources are AT-WILL, and that my posting privileges may be terminated at any time, and for any reason by MaleSurvivor.