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#225262 - 05/20/08 03:48 AM Re: The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encoun [Re: Still]
Brian Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 05/03/01
Posts: 1563
Loc: Upstate NY
I'm all for our citizens being educated of their legal rights when being approached by the police. If their rights are found to have been violated, they should be compensated for it and the officers should be held accountable (suspended, held civilly liable, fired and/or go to jail - whatever is appropriate). That being said, I also believe that citizens should be taught to obey the laws OR be prepared to pay the consequences (It's very interesting that our Russian friends seem to have a very good understanding of this). Sadly, many of our young people have parents who just failed to educate their children to be responsible, law abiding citizens . These children grow up and have children of their own and it doesn't seem to me that this is going to change anytime soon. It's really sad to see this everyday. Many kids just don't have a chance. \:\(

I've been a police officer for over 19 1/2 years. Unfortunately, I don't have the time to correct all the misinformation in this thread but I do want to make a point. I work in a medium sized department that has a horrible reputation (very well deserved). I will be retiring at the end of this year and I can't wait to get out of there! Five percent of our officers make the other 95% look rotten to the core! This, along with the lack of public support, takes a heavy toll on us. I suspect that this percentage is a fair estimation of all police departments across the country. I hope that most of the negative comments on this thread are referring to just a few of those 5% who you see on the nightly news because the other 95% (and even some of the 5%) risk injury or even death for people they don't even know on a daily basis.

I would bet anything that I'm as angry and disgusted as all of you put together! Unfortunately, many of the good officers get their time in and retire as soon as they possibly can. They take their pensions and start second careers selling flowers at airports or hot dogs on street corners (would you like a bag of chips with that?)!! \:\)

Sorry for the rant!

_________________________
Recovery is Possible!

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#225291 - 05/20/08 09:12 AM Re: The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encoun [Re: Brian]
EGL Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 7821
Brian,

Firstly, thank you for your service to your community for the nearly 20 years you have put in as a police officer. I know it has to probably be one of the most thankless jobs out there, but it is also one that we should be the most gratefull for that there are people like yourself who are willing to take on the job of putting your own life on the line.

And thanks for that thought that it's probably a small percentage of cops who make the whole lot look bad. I think that's very true, because we rarely ever hear good press about the good cops and what they're doing - seems like the media only pounces on what the bad ones are doing. And good luck in your retirement! \:\)

Personally, I would not mind being stopped and searched because I have nothing to hide. I see it akin to going through searches at the airport - if it makes all of us safer, I don't care. And I actually HAVE been stopped and searched before, and I was even bent over the police cruiser and handcuffed during it. My offense - I was driving through a neighborhood where some vandalism had just occurred and I guess I was a likely suspect. This was back when I was about 20 years old, and the officer finally figured out from the bag of Cheerioes and such he found during his search that my wife and I had only been going to the grocery store. Did it shake me up? Sure. But I knew I had nothing to hide.

_________________________
Eddie

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#225314 - 05/20/08 11:56 AM Re: The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encoun [Re: EGL]
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
So, let me see if I get this right ok? EVERY law should be obeyed unquestioningly? There are no such things as ill-conceived or unjust laws? EVERY law deserves absolute respect and obedience?

Accepting the notion that we must be responsible for the consequences for any form of civil disobedience, let's consider a few scenarios:

A small city council (not the people) passes a smoking ban in any public place and private business, including bars, sidewalks and parks. Does it deserve to be obeyed?

A state legislature passes a mandatory seat-belt law, regardless of the will of the people that they claim to represent. Does it deserve to be obeyed?

The Federal Government passes a law dictating that no one can possess a firearm within 1000 feet of a school, even if it’s in your very own house. Should it be obeyed? (they tried this back in the 90’s and the Supreme Court, in a rare ruling that actually upheld our rights, stuck it down as too encompassing.)

If the Federal Government decides that they need a draft again, should all eligible young male citizens line up at the recruitment center?

If the Federal Government decided (once again) that it was ok to force certain ethnic minorities to sit in the back of a transit bus, should that law be obeyed? But why not? It was the law wasn't it?

Do laws that are passed merely to go along with the prevailing prejudices of that time deserve our absolute and unquestioning obedience? I say thee, NAY! Civil disobedience has always been the outspoken hallmark in the progression of any free society.

Should you face the consequences for disobeying these laws? Well, yes, it's not as if you have a choice in the matter, IF you're caught.

But, how about offering some helpful knowledge to people, in the course of their civil disobedience? There is nothing inherently wrong with being armed with legal knowledge.




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#225338 - 05/20/08 03:33 PM Re: The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encoun [Re: Hauser]
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
I think that the guys on this board, pretty much try their hardest to stay within the law, but if the law wants to stop me for any other reason that they "think" I look suspicious, or just for the sake of filling in a stop form, they can think again.

Knowing and respectfully using your rights, is one thing we all have to know, without fear of reprisal by some 'bad apple'.
A joint, or a small bag of herbs, should never land an otherwise lawful being in jail.

The police are "target driven", to make it look like they are tough on crime and criminals, when sadly, they pick on the vulnerable in society to make up the numbers.

Thanks Brian for being a good cop, but the bad ones will make you all look the same, and before long, the good cops are replaced by an all new police force, consisting of indiscriminate police, who see everyone as a potential criminal, instead of understanding the community etc.

If I had some money, I would move to a leafy village where nothing goes on, or maybe move to Ireland where life really still is the way it should be,

ste

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Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#225478 - 05/21/08 12:33 AM Re: The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encoun [Re: reality2k4]
Brian Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 05/03/01
Posts: 1563
Loc: Upstate NY
Quote:
So, let me see if I get this right ok? EVERY law should be obeyed unquestioningly? There are no such things as ill-conceived or unjust laws? EVERY law deserves absolute respect and obedience?


Hauser, thats not what I'm saying. If you read it again, I said, "... citizens should be taught to obey the laws OR be prepared to pay the consequences". Anyone can do anything that they want; we all make thousands of choices everyday - what to have for lunch, wearing their seat belts, abusing a child, or murder. If you decide to engage in activity that constitutes a crime, you must be prepared to accept the consequences. The consequences may include a fine, jail, or a judge throwing out the charges due to police misconduct. It could also lead to the legislature seeing the light and changing the law!

Following your line of reasoning, the next question is WHO decides what laws should or shouldn't be obeyed? Do we leave it up to the individual and let them be their own judge and jury? Many sex offenders would love this type of justice system! Would it be okay if they really believed deep down that they were not harming anyone?

What about the police? Would they be the only ones that would be required to obey every single law? What if the police believed the criminals had way too many rights? Would it be okay for them to disobey the law just because they felt like it? What about if they had the day off and were not on the clock? Would they be allowed to make up their own rules then?

Alan, I know what you are saying and I agree with a lot of it. Our system SUCKS but unfortunately, it's the best we have!

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Recovery is Possible!

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#225500 - 05/21/08 05:31 AM Re: The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encoun [Re: Brian]
soapy bubbles Offline
Member

Registered: 09/05/06
Posts: 332
Loc: london
Ste - I think you've got a rather rose-tinted view of Ireland! It's a great place, but has its ups and downs just like any other society
SB

_________________________
"Though we travel the world over to find the beautiful, we must carry it with us or we find it not.” ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

“Nobody can make you feel inferior without your permission.” --- Eleanor Roosevelt

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#225797 - 05/22/08 01:21 PM Re: The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encoun [Re: Hauser]
melliferal Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 1159
Originally Posted By: Hauser

If the Federal Government decided (once again) that it was ok to force certain ethnic minorities to sit in the back of a transit bus, should that law be obeyed? But why not? It was the law wasn't it?


Actually, that was Montgomery city ordinance, and Alabama state law, that allowed for segregated buses. A federal district court ruled this unconstitutional in 1956, a ruling which the city and state appealed. A few months later, the federal government (as the US Supreme Court) upheld the district court's ruling, and put an end to segregated buses.

_________________________
Children cannot consent; they can only comply.

Oprah's resources for male survivors

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#225801 - 05/22/08 01:40 PM Re: The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encoun [Re: melliferal]
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
It was still a law.


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#225809 - 05/22/08 02:41 PM Re: The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encoun [Re: soapy bubbles]
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
SB, I was just thinking of somewhere, where there are few people, and more animals

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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