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#225329 - 05/20/08 01:53 PM Rape and Guns ***TRIGGERING THREAD***
LW1527 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/14/08
Posts: 408
Loc: Salt Lake City Ut
I hope this is not triggering to anyone. I just got back from my therapist. It was a horrible session! We talked about my flashbacks of rape and the the flashback about the gun pointed at my head. I told my T that I didn't understand why I couldn't get over it. As a kid I had been beaten and molested so many times, but I didn't know why the rape should be such a big deal. I don't know what I did wrong or what I did to provoke it. It just happened. And I just laid on the cold tile floor unable to move, unable to make a sound. I couldn't even yell. At another time I was forced to have sex at gun point. I felt nothing. I was numb. I didn't even fear death. But today, after my session, my chest tightened and felt like it was going to crush. I could hardly walk and felt disoriented. I felt SHOCK! For the first time after these events I felt shock. I went back to work, sat at my computer, and cried. I stuffed it back down a bit so I could get through the day. Boy, I hurt and I think this is just the beginning. Thanks MS for being there for me to dump on.



Edited by walkingsouth (05/21/08 07:36 PM)

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#225330 - 05/20/08 02:19 PM Re: Rape and Guns [Re: LW1527]
Freedom49 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 2723
Loc: Washington State
LW,
I think you are just finally FEELING. You stuffed all of that fear and shock and hurt and anger deep during the incidents in order to survive and keep some form of dignity till it was over and you were in a place where you could process it. With the help and the safety of your T now you are feeling safe enough to begin processing the loss and the grief. Let it go guy. Cry, vent, rant, feel and process it all. It will be a healing thing for you and you will feel much better. Don't fight it. It is normal, healthy and good for you to get it all out. Thanks for sharing it will help others too.

Take care



Edited by Freedom49 (05/20/08 02:20 PM)

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#225360 - 05/20/08 05:28 PM Re: Rape and Guns [Re: Freedom49]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
LW,

I agree with Roger, and I'll just add that I hope you mention all this to your T in your next session. It sounds like you may be moving too fast. Therapy should not expose you to such new pain and trauma, and if it does that suggests you are headed in the right direction but perhaps need to slow things down a bit.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#225362 - 05/20/08 05:36 PM Re: Rape and Guns [Re: LW1527]
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
This is a tough one for me too, I was held at knife point, but I realized that my life was in danger from that point, but put things out of my mind because of the difficulty in thinking that I would die in the instance.

It can have so much negative influence when weapons are involved, and can lead to loss of self worth at a young age.
You probably got threatened with your life, if you did tell, but that is how they protect themselves, by using your fear.

Abusers are pretty good at protecting their own backs, even if they pretty much try and kill the kid in the process, by making them think it was their fault.

Always remember, it was NOT your fault,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#225393 - 05/20/08 08:43 PM Re: Rape and Guns [Re: reality2k4]
Naruto Offline


Registered: 05/15/08
Posts: 7
Hey LW1527,

Dude, I can't say I know what you've been through, so I'm not gonna even pretend. But from the sounds of it you've been through a lot, and you've come really, really far. . .respect man.

I agree with the others, crying, frustration, the need to scream and the shock. . .I think these are GOOD signs! I'm glad to hear you're making progress with your T. Hang in there buddy; all of us here at MS are rootin' for you.


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#225412 - 05/20/08 10:21 PM Re: Rape and Guns [Re: Naruto]
johnnymike Offline
Guest

Registered: 03/08/08
Posts: 51
Loc: Central Ohio
LW I can relate and I am sorry you were raped and also at gunpoint. The fear of what was happening and would I survive was what was on my mind. You did nothing wrong the wrong was within your rapist. I realized the lack of fear came for me from my going someplace in my mind while it was happening. Having been abused as a child and being a victim of abuse continued on for me as an adult.

My last therapist told me I was still numb to the pain which will keep me numb to the pleasure of life. One other thing I share with you is that crushing chest pain. I find I experience it when I am trying to assert myself.

I hope you can find peace.


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#225413 - 05/20/08 10:21 PM Re: Rape and Guns [Re: LW1527]
jcf1957 Offline
Guest

Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 192
Loc: North Of The 49th Parallel
Hello LW;

I can identify in exact detail about how you felt. I was gang-raped at gunpoint by two men and a woman with two other male victims at who suffered the same horrid sexual assault, tortures, beatings, and death threats with sawed-off rifles and the barrel a hand-gun forced inside my mouth. I understand the paralyzing fears you were forced to endure. I don't think even a shrink can contemplate ("fully") what it is in actuality to experience the ("real") reality of this utter fear of knowing your going to die at the hands of savage animals. Then adding insult to injury the indignity of being raped, sodomized and tortured. LW; I know well how you feel friend. It takes time to find real healing and peace with ourselves. It takes time to find the strength in our inner selves when such was rudely stolen from us making us feel empty and utterly traumatized beyond human understanding. LW; I am happy you are here. There's a lot of support with ("brothers") at M.S. who know well what you are going through. Is recovery possible ? Being personally a pragmatic thinker who doesn't believe in over-inflated optimism I can only answer by saying; "yes" recovery is plausible. It's a slow process my friend. At least your among brothers. My rape happened twenty-nine years ago and I'm still in kindergarten learning how to cope with my past.
I hope you find peace brother. And welcome to M.S. Much Love Chris

_________________________
No affliction nor temptation, no guilt nor power of sin, no wounded spirit nor terrified conscious should induce us to despair comfort from God.

Today well lived...makes every tomorrow a vision of Hope.
Anonymous

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#225462 - 05/20/08 11:48 PM Re: Rape and Guns [Re: jcf1957]
EGL Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 7819
Hi LW,

Sorry to hear that things are this intense for you at the moment, it sounds like things are really tough. You may want to try to pace yourself some in order to not feel so overwhelmed with it all since this stuff can just consume you at times. I hope things get better soon, man. And take the time to care for yourself in good ways where possible.

_________________________
Eddie

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#225501 - 05/21/08 06:41 AM Re: Rape and Guns [Re: EGL]
Trucker51 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/20/08
Posts: 2826
Loc: Denver, CO
L.W.

I understand the violent rape at gunpoint issue. I suffered an incident hitchhiking home from work just after I turned 18 (in 1975). I was raped and fairly severe pain was inflicted to my male organ, along with the threat to tear it off. I was twice forced to orgasm over the course of an assault that lasted almost two hours. The guy picked me up, then showed me a black handgun, as he took me to his suburban house, where the garage door opener kept his actions out of sight. The guy was also holding the gun when he told me to strip in his garage as I got out of his van. Once I was led into an interior room, he tied my elbows inside of my knees and my wrists to my ankles, so that I was bent over and spread. I was also gagged. It was a really helpless feeling. I could have been killed or tortured to death, and there was nothing that I could do about it. I couldn't even scream. After he finished, he threatened my life if I ever ratted him out. He had friends who would kill me, I was told. He forced me out of his van at a dark intersection at 3:00 AM and he just drove away as the tears rolled down my face. I walked for over an hour to get home, and numerous times I remember running away from the road in fear to get away from approaching headlights. I was also robbed at gunpoint twice at age 17 & 18 while working in gas stations, once by escaped prisoners in a stolen car. I am lucky to be alive, and so are you.

This incident was the last of 26 different incidents that were inflicted by 10 different men or boys during my childhood. I was just 4 to 5 years old at the time of the first 3 incidents, two of which involved forced genital pain, and I was 8 to 10 years old for the next several incidents of molestation. I was molested by a counselor and suffered forced public nudity at one summer camp at age 11, then was sleeping in a tent at another summer camp when another boy was molested at my age 12. I still remember trying to make myself really small while acting like I was out cold as the other boy was abused just six feet away. Between the age of 12 and 14 I was molested and finally anally fingered by a Vietnam-era ex-Marine over the course of the next 3 incidents. The last of these incidents was fairly violent, and I was forced to orgasm. The ex-Marine was the first to threaten to kill me if I told anyone. I can still remember blockading myself in my bedroom and climbing out of my bedroom window and running down the street to get away, with him running after me, just as a neighbor drove in. My next-door neighbor (two years older) cheated at strip poker to molest both me (twice) and a friend of mine (once) at age 12 and 13. I suffered a hellish and violent week of physical and sexual abuse at the hands of a friend of my aunt's, next door to her house in rural Vermont after I had been kicked-out of high school at 16 & 1/2. When I tried to hitchhike away from the abuse one week later the Vermont State Patrol picked me up, wouldn't believe me, and had my abuser come and pick me up for some more violent abuse. Then there were the hitchhiking incidents, three of them, between age 16 and 18. Only the last incident was violent at the point of a gun, though the incidents with the ex-Marine and the guy from Vermont were violent at the point of both actual and implied physical violence. The ex-Marine was many times my strength, and just after he returned from Vietnam, he acted in an insane manner with a hair-trigger temper.

My parents were devout members of a cult faith-healing church. My father was physically abusive and after the incidents at the age of five I regressed and had a terrible fear of public bathrooms. I was beaten by my dad numerous times for soiling my pants. After the pain incidents and the beatings I grew fond of genital pain, including self-inflicted pain, by age six. I never received any medical care for any problems until I broke my leg at age 12. For 3 days my mother tried to faith-heal my broken leg then my parents fought over whether to take me to the hospital. The ER doctor was forced to rebreak and reset my leg without pain medication, when my mother invoked her church's legal medical exemption. And several of my abusers never would have been babysitting unless they had been members of my parent's oddball church, including the ex-Marine.

At age 14, three weeks after I had last been ravished by the ex-Marine, I was caught in a motel bathroom with my 12 year old sister with our clothes off. My mother was really mad but she didn't violently attack me until after I told her about AJ's abuse of me just three weeks earlier. This occurred just a few days after the end of my first same-sex relationship at another summer camp. I was punched repeatedly and forced to the floor while she kicked me in the stomach and crotch while screaming that I was lying about AJ, because he was from our church. So, my first attempt to reveal my sexual abuse ended very badly for me. In Mic Hunter's book Abused Boys, one quoted study gives parent's reasons for not acting after their son revealed an incident of molestation. Only 4 percent of the parents said that they didn't act because they thought that the accusation was a lie. I am one of the four percent crowd, and was violently physically abused because of my alleged lie. (Some years later I found out that my sister had also been sexually abused by other trusted Church babysitters).

I started drinking and illegal drug use at the age of 14. My grades became steadily worse after first grade. I had been in an advanced program for allegedly gifted children and was well ahead of many of my classmates at one point. But I began to care less and less and became more and more isolated over time, as my molestation and abuse continued unabated. I started hanging with a stoner crowd in 9th grade, and a street gang by 11th grade. As it turned out later, many of my friends had also suffered some form of abuse. I had a gay genital pain relationship with another young masochist-type between age 22 and 24, while we were under the influence of IV cocaine. I first tried to quit illegal drug use at the age of 28, when I was undergoing individual counseling at a university in Ohio. This first attempt at resolving my problems through therapy was fairly successful, as I was married at that time, after having almost no opposite sex relationships to that point.

My first marriage ended in divorce just 2 & 1/2 years later. My wife knew that there was something wrong with me. I wasn't acting like a normal 30 year old man. My cocaine use came back with a vengeance, and the combination of my divorce, my coke abuse, and the recession of 1990 destroyed my life. I just didn't care again. Over the next 6 years I overdosed several times, and am lucky to still be around. Toward the end I had another coke/sexual pain relationship, this time with a young woman. As had been the case in my earlier gay drug/pain relationship, we both enjoyed having sexual pain inflicted when we were high. In early 1996 my family confronted me, and I entered outpatient drug treatment. After a big relapse a few months later it was off to Minnesota to inpatient drug treatment.

It took 3 trips to primary care and 3 extended outpatient care groups to finally end my illegal addictions more than three years later. I did see a therapist (Jeff Casebolt) in Denver for some time just before I left, and did go through personal counseling for my childhood sexual abuse issues both at Hazelden and with Mic Hunter while I lived in Minnesota. I did have some limited male survivor support group exposure in both Denver and the Twin Cities. After more than three years of fighting, and having to let go of several long-time friends, I finally got myself back up on the wall.

These last eight years have been the best years of my life. I have had a couple of LTRs and am currently engaged to be married to a woman that I've been with for over two years now. My boss likes me and I have been on my current job for over 3 times as long as my next longest job pre-treatment. I own a $300,000 home in a golf community. I still don't act my age and still am not as sexually aggressive as some women would like. I have gained a fair amount of weight and now take blood pressure medication. I also suffer from E.D., though its nothing that a little Cialis won't fix. If I can just hold it together for another 12 to 15 years, we can retire middle class. I've almost got it made.

My advice would be to stick with your treatment. If you don't get along with your therapist Mic Hunter is a nationally-recognized published authority on the subject. (And one of the founders of this site, which I didn't know at the time). His office is in St. Paul, MN. My experience with Jeff Casebolt was also quite positive. I tried searching for him recently but didn't find him. And there were two good therapists in Cleveland, OH, Roland Moore and Courtney Pullen, from Cleveland State University's Counseling Center. At Cleveland State, full-time students get to use the counseling center for free. If you are addicted to drugs I recommend getting off of the stuff. Even Hazelden recommends treating childhood abuse issues concurrently with substance abuse treatment. I still won't have anything to do with organized religion. But my life is at least 90% these days. My issues with my abusive upbringing are mostly in the past. My future is what concerns me now.

I found this site completely by chance while searching Google for sexual abuse recovery issues. I was convinced to try it after one of the founder's statements about survivors and the positive aspects of sharing. I am most of the way to freedom from the sexual abuse and other childhood abuse that I suffered so many years ago. I was hoping to share my story to possibly give others hope and encouragement. Please feel free to communicate on a private basis if you so desire. My treatment was long, hard, and very difficult, and there were several times that I gave-up and many other times that I wanted to give-up. But I finally stuck with it and the results have been very good. I hope that you can stay with your therapy too. Don't give up or hide your head in the sand. Your personal recovery is way too important to give it up now. The hardest part is the first visit to a therapist and you are way past that now. Confronting your past abuse issues is always difficult, but the hardest part is behind you.

I hope that you stay with it and eventually overcome your demons. This is the first time that I have ever shared the story of my rape at gunpoint outside of just once in the protected venue of individual counseling, so you can thank yourself for helping me just a little bit in my recovery. It happened almost 33 years ago and tonight is only the 2nd time that I ever told anyone.

Thanks for your help and please accept my advice. Stay with your therapy and I hope that someday you can enjoy the freedom that I have enjoyed these last eight years.

Trucker51

Mark




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#225508 - 05/21/08 07:49 AM Re: Rape and Guns [Re: Trucker51]
GateKPR4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/28/07
Posts: 955
Loc: North Carolina, USA
I remember when I first started to feel again, it was like anything could set me off crying, I actually left work a couple times that first month because I just could not control it. Its actually a good sign and hope for the future. As with all of this abuse stuff it takes time. I kind of go through growth spurts and then back away for a while and let it all take hold. Its all new to us so we really have to learn something new. Talking about our abuse and feeling breaks all the rules our mind or abusers set us up for. It feels wrong yet after we break them we find that it was not talking and feeling that was wrong and keeping us in pain. I wish you well, it does get better.

_________________________
I'm a normal person dealing with abnormal experiences.
The greatest discoveries we will find within ourselves.
Ricky
__m_τΏτ_m__
|| || || || || || |

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#225537 - 05/21/08 09:35 AM Re: Rape and Guns [Re: GateKPR4]
Trucker51 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/20/08
Posts: 2826
Loc: Denver, CO
GateKPR4:

Thanks for your supportive response. I started individual therapy in 1986, and finished early in 2000. I don't go to AA meetings as I had to escape from a cult religion where much of my abuse originated. My belief in a God or a higher power has been severely traumautized by my experience.

I wasn't brought up to be a normal person. Only after extensive therapy have I recovered some sense of normalacy. I still have certain minor issues, but have moved away from allowing my abusive past to control my every move, and I have become hopeful for my future. My numbing drug addiction and its ruination is only a memory 3,000 days later. Why count the days?

I read a couple of your other posts and hope that you too are well along on your personal road to recovery.

Detroit57/Trucker51

_________________________
"We stay here, we die here. We've got to keep moving". Trucker Mark



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#225563 - 05/21/08 12:32 PM Re: Rape and Guns [Re: GateKPR4]
LW1527 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/14/08
Posts: 408
Loc: Salt Lake City Ut
I feel evey touch, feel every penetrating pain. I try not to think about it, but it just comes. I don't know how to slow this down. If I don't numb the feelings, then it all comes rushing out. I feel the terror in my stomach. When I eat, I want to throw up. I hate people, but I really hate men. I hope that doesn't offend anyone here. But it's always been men, since two of them molested me at day care, then incest, then gang rape in an alley when I was 12 and then 16 rape in the restroom at the beach. God, the beach was so awful. It happened so fast I didn't know what was happening. I just thought I was going to be beaten again. God, it just happened. It was later that I was held at gun point and forced into sex with some man I don't remember seeing. I'm blithering. I'm sorry.


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#225566 - 05/21/08 12:53 PM Re: Rape and Guns [Re: LW1527]
GateKPR4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/28/07
Posts: 955
Loc: North Carolina, USA
Trucker,
I am well on my way in recovery, I left AA after 4 1/2 years because I was involved with a small cult and there were too many similarities for me to make any more progress. So I had to leave it behind.

LW,
I once sounded much like your last response, I too hated people and mostly men because most of my most traumatic abuse was at the hands of men. Even today I have very few men I talk with because I don't trust most of them. I no longer hate people but I am careful who I choose to be around or trust. Most of my doctors are female that I can trust and most of the people that give me support outside of MS are female. It's sad that you are going through this and I hope you will seek professional help and get on a medication that will help you out for a while. I take medication's every day because of Bi-Polar type 2 disorder and there is no shame in that. It took me 3 years to accept the fact that I am indeed Bi-Polar but the proof is right in front of me. I don't like medication but I know my life can be hell on earth without it.
Please don't be sorry, blither away and get it out. We all do this at some point here, and I still have a tendency to blither away \:\) but its OK today

_________________________
I'm a normal person dealing with abnormal experiences.
The greatest discoveries we will find within ourselves.
Ricky
__m_τΏτ_m__
|| || || || || || |

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#225570 - 05/21/08 01:24 PM Re: Rape and Guns [Re: GateKPR4]
Freedom49 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 2723
Loc: Washington State
Go ahead LW blither, rant, vent, cry, or whatever you want we are here to help you though this and you will get through this. Your reactions are normal for what you have been trough. We will respect that and help you. stay strong



Edited by Freedom49 (05/21/08 01:24 PM)

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#225579 - 05/21/08 03:14 PM Re: Rape and Guns [Re: Freedom49]
LW1527 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/14/08
Posts: 408
Loc: Salt Lake City Ut
Thanks everyone for your responses. They've helped me very much. I'm feeling a little embarrassed, but I'll work on getting over that. Thanks again for listening and much appreciation for caring - really caring. I hope I can do the same someday soon. I told my T that I was posting at MS. I sat there thinking that he would begin beating me. Stupid isn't it? My T is the head of the Traums Clinic and a good man, although I always tell him not to come too close. So, when I told him, he didn't beat me. Crazy! Thanks for understanding and being there.


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#225585 - 05/21/08 04:36 PM Re: Rape and Guns [Re: LW1527]
Trucker51 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/20/08
Posts: 2826
Loc: Denver, CO
L.W:

What you are going through is a completely normal part of the recovery process. I remember my early therapy. Once in a while we would touch on a sensitive subject then it was off on another bender I would go. I remember the struggle to try to trust my first therapist enough to spill some more of my guts out. It was a really painful struggle that went on for much of my first year and a half of individual therapy. My first therapist at Cleveland State was a very caring and tolerant individual who took great pains to ease me through my recovery process slowly and safely. And still there were those tough days.

You were victimized and none of it is your fault. You were a kid and its never a kid's fault. You were abused by some guys who were either gay and/or who got off on forcing a younger powerless victim to suffer. Going to the bathroom is flipping normal, as is walking through an alley. Most likely you were the victim of random perverse opportunity. It wasn't your fault as you had a legitimate reason to do what you did. And it wasn't your fault because you were just a teenage kid. Sometimes kids and teens are a bit on the trusting side, but that is also a normal part of growing up human. Kids and teens must rely on and trust adults for their care, safety, and wellbeing. What happened to you (and me) was a blatant violation of that trust.

My abusers were all men or boys also. Yet I also had a separate abuse component that was inflicted on me by my own mother. After the incident with my sister in the Summer of 1972, I had huge problems with women and normal intimacy, and had many close male friends who I constantly prayed wouldn't find out that I was different. I kept my problems deeply buried and "numbed" myself almost daily for 14 years following my abuse that afternoon in 1972 with the ex-Marine babysitter. Following my ending therapy (prematurely) in 1987 and my divorce in 1990, it was another seven years of numbing and loosing everything that I owned twice, before I gave it another chance.

Please quit saying that you're sorry unless you've got something to be sorry about. I used to do it too. I was sorry so much of the time for no good reason. Was I trying to deflect prying eyes? What happened to you wasn't your fault and it is perfectly normal to try to let out your long-suppressed pain in therapy. I feel great sympathy for what you are going through, because I was once right where you are at now. Giving up the only control that you've ever known is very hard at first. It made me just want to run away.

Another issue for some survivors is maintaining eye contact. Some people can tell that you are frightened or are insincere if you don't make eye contact. I learned early to focus on something well behind the person and keep my focus at a distant range when I looked back at them. I could stare anyone down and I wouldn't hardly be able to see them. Thankfully as a result of my therapy, that problem is gone too.

You might look into pre>

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#225596 - 05/21/08 05:49 PM Re: Rape and Guns [Re: Trucker51]
LW1527 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/14/08
Posts: 408
Loc: Salt Lake City Ut
TRUCKER - No, you are not bothering me at all. I'm not asking anyone to hold my hand, but I do need some blunt talk which is what you gave me. I appreciate it and I am not sorry for it either. There isn't any thing anyone could say that would be more painful than what I am going through now. I'm okay with blunt and in-your-face talk. Talk later.


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#225597 - 05/21/08 06:02 PM Re: Rape and Guns [Re: LW1527]
LW1527 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/14/08
Posts: 408
Loc: Salt Lake City Ut
TRUCKER - My therapist called and wants me to come in Friday. He likes me to email him and when he got some of my emails he called me and told me to come in because they sounded what he called "rough". Maybe he can slow it down a little. I feel like a runaway train and everything is hitting fast. I don't have access to email at night, only through work during the day. I'll talk again and thanks for the advice.


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#225709 - 05/22/08 07:22 AM Re: Rape and Guns [Re: LW1527]
Trucker51 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/20/08
Posts: 2826
Loc: Denver, CO
L.W.

Thanks for accepting my advice. It was most likely with some difficulty that you asked for help the other day. In a number of treatment programs mentoring is used to help ease tough transitions for members in early recovery. It was not easy to share what you did, yet it was great progress. Someday you will be able to easily share without fear or anger. It is a normal part of the recovery process getting to that point.

When I left my first therapist in 1987, it was because he had expected that I would be able to attend an in-person survivors support group totally cold. That would have been a really good time to introduce me to a mentor. Someone who I might have been able to trust who could have made sure that I made it there. Someone to introduce me to the group. Maybe someone that I could confide in or lean on at least temporarily.

I am not trying to lead you by the hand. I just tried to get you to open up and begin to trust a little bit. I know how difficult that can be in early recovery. Those of us who participated in this discussion over the last couple of days were only trying to help you over a little bump in your recovery road. I'll admit that it probably seems like a significant obstacle to you. I am happy for you that you have made a little bit of progress these last few days, and I'm hopeful for your recovery.

Please let me know if I can be of any further assistance.

Take care my man. Try me later this afternoon.

Trucker51

(Hi, my name is Mark, and I was an addict a long time ago).

Why would your therapist beat you for sharing on this site? Why would any normal person want to hurt you?


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#225715 - 05/22/08 08:07 AM Re: Rape and Guns [Re: GateKPR4]
Trucker51 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/20/08
Posts: 2826
Loc: Denver, CO
GateKPR4:

You and I share the abusive cult religion component. My upbringing was in the Christian Science Church. My mother is still a very devout Church leader, though everyone else in my family has either left the Church or died prematurely of easily treatable illnesses. It is hard to believe that 35 or 40 years ago, in a small congregation of 125 to 150 members, that there would be five members who liked to molest boys, and several other members who liked to molest girls. Something is not right there. 7% to 8% of the entire congregation were child molestors?

I too could not seem to make much progress in AA. I had some problem with step one, and never made it beyond step two. The whole higher power and God component really threw me. My last few days of my 2nd 28 days at Hazelden a speaker in the auditorium gave an atheist alternative 12 step program. It was too bad that I didn't hear him a lot sooner.

Have you ever looked into support groups for the survivors of cult religions? Christian Way is an ex-Christian Science site. Try Rick Reed, Reachout Trust, or the Center for Cultic Studies, all of which deal with cult survivor's issues. All of these sites offer links to other sites too.

Thanks for your help mentoring with this situation with L.W. He has made some definate progress these last few days.

Try me later this afternoon.

Trucker51

_________________________
"We stay here, we die here. We've got to keep moving". Trucker Mark



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#225736 - 05/22/08 09:34 AM Re: Rape and Guns [Re: Trucker51]
LW1527 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/14/08
Posts: 408
Loc: Salt Lake City Ut
My parents belonged to some cult in Hawaii where I was born. A few years ago I started having flashbacks of people in white robes and hoods, murder, sexual abuse and much more. For years I would wake up screaming "They're killing the babies. I've got to save the babies." It is no wonder I became an addict later. I thought I was handling everything okay until this week when I figured out I was still in many ways in denial about what had happened to me sexually. It's hard when my family and extended family won't talk. When they do, it's all "wonderful". I haven't talked to my sister in years because she won't believe me. I made a big mistake by telling her about dad's incest activities in my bedroom. She believes I was abused, but not by him. I know he abused her in many ways she doesn't remember. I can still hear the screams in the bedroom. She doesn't remember, but I do. Then he would come in and beat me. I hated my sister's screaming so I wouldn't make a sound when he would beat me. I just let it happen for years. But this was a "wonderful" man who loved his family. I remember when I was 16 and was very upset inside because he wouldn't crawl in bed with me one night. I was very confused, but I wouldn't say anything about it because I knew I would be beaten. One night he tried to kill me, but I still wouldn't make a sound. Mom would just let it happpen,a quiet shy lush. God, there I go blithering again. So today I feel like crap. When the memories of sexual abuse came back, the feelings and sensations came as well. Today, just let me die.


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#225774 - 05/22/08 12:31 PM Re: Rape and Guns [Re: LW1527]
Freedom49 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 2723
Loc: Washington State
Originally Posted By: LW1527
So today I feel like crap. When the memories of sexual abuse came back, the feelings and sensations came as well. Today, just let me die.


I can relate to a lot of what your saying LW. You, however, are not a freak. You are experiencing the normal results of a very abnormal situation you grew up in. A situation no child should ever have to go though. The comment about hearing your sister scream is particularly impacting me for some reason I perhaps do not want to investigate. You do not need to die. As bad as it is you can get through this and come out the other side. I know it hurts like hell. It is hell. But you will be ok. You are among friends here at this site. Many who can relate all to well with what you are feeling and going through. They have made it or are dealing with it too and you can support each other back to a healthy place. You are salvagable and worth it too. Stay with us and post what you need.

your friend


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#225804 - 05/22/08 01:56 PM Re: Rape and Guns [Re: Freedom49]
LW1527 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/14/08
Posts: 408
Loc: Salt Lake City Ut
Thanks. I'm sounding really irrational. I haven't slept in 4 days, maybe about 2 hours a night. The headaches are intense and non-stopping. I've never talked to anyone before about these things. I'm taking some time off from work so I won't be back until Tuesday. Thank you very much for the encouragement. I'll make it. Any other option is not acceptable. It seems that as soon as I decided not to numb myself any more, it started gushing out. Thank you again and thanks to everyone!


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#225852 - 05/22/08 06:36 PM Re: Rape and Guns [Re: LW1527]
Trucker51 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/20/08
Posts: 2826
Loc: Denver, CO
L.W.

See your therapist tomorrow. Take the weekend off. Take some time to process all that has happened this week. Get some sleep. I recommend Excedrin for headaches. Do something nice for yourself this weekend. Take care of yourself. And please, do not hurt yourself or beat yourself up.

You have suffered greatly and it is not your fault. Each of the aspects of your abuse needs to be dealt with. Reachout Trust.org is a site in England that tries to help with cult issues. The Center for Cultic Studies is here in the US. Both sites have links to other sites. There are plenty of other sites too. Your statement about everything being wonderful leads me to believe that there is some kind of devout religious or cult involvement in your family.

You were also physically abused. And having to witness the abuse of others, or even being forced to hear their screams as they were abused, is also abuse. You are what is often referred to as a multiple diagnosis patient.

I can understand why you have used drugs to blunt or mask your feelings. I also know that your best chance for success is off of illegal drugs. Ask your therapist about the possibility of trading your drug habit for a pre>


Edited by Trucker51 (05/24/08 07:57 PM)

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#226809 - 05/26/08 11:53 AM Re: Rape and Guns [Re: Trucker51]
LW1527 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/14/08
Posts: 408
Loc: Salt Lake City Ut
I took Friday and the weekened off from work. My T worked through the rape with me. I learned when I was a kid never to make a sound when abuse was happening. In the case of rape, I never did anything. My therapist called it "learned helplessness". This is confusing to my wife who tells me that I am not afraid to stand up to anyone which is true. So this was confusing for her. Maybe I learned to jump over this "learned helplessness" in my life and became too agressive. Maybe I need to go back and work through this to feel true power? I don't know. It's worth thinking about. My therapist told me that my body was in the process of shutting down over this rape event. I'm much better now.

As far as the gun thing, this is hard. This is a memory that started coming back in small pieces. I know that I was forced to have sex with a man at gun point. I know that I saw him shoot another man in the chest in his apartment. I feel very sick over this. I can't seem to get the rest of the pieces of this picture. I know it will come when it is ready. I've have "traumaic amnesia" and there are now many pieces of my past that I have reclaimed,I think. The rape and foced sex by gunpoint are new. I look back at the pieces of memories and who I discovered I was and what I did and I am disgusted and repulsed by what I did as a kid, as a teenager. I feel like there is a lot of poison inside. The things I did and the places I've been - it's a wonder I'm not dead. I've seen death before, lots of times, but I don't know why seeing this man killed would send me into shock. Why I can't get over it like I did with others. No I didn't shoot the man nor have I ever killed anyone. I have just seen death, murder, and just very dark things and it all comes back to sex and sexual abuse. Sorry this is dark. That's where I'm at.


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#226856 - 05/26/08 02:07 PM Re: Rape and Guns [Re: LW1527]
Trucker51 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/20/08
Posts: 2826
Loc: Denver, CO
LW:

How was your weekend? Get any sleep? What if anything did your therapist say about your involvement on MS? I hope that he didn't critisize you over it. I can't see any reason why he would have been anything less than cautiously supportive.

It is odd. Through my early abuse up until around age 10 I was still talkative and questioning during my molestation. At age 11 I tried really hard to make myself as small as possible when another kid was abused by a camp counsellor just across the tent from me. I was feeling powerless. I was more talkative when my next-door neighbor cheated at strip poker to molest me and after that I was quite silent through all of the other abuse. When I was raped at 18 I was totally silent during my victimization and torture. Maybe silently taking the abuse is more of a teenage or young adult thing. Or maybe it is more of an experienced victim routine.

I too reacted to the helplessness of my repeated victimization by adopting a tough outward personality. By 11th grade I was running with a neighborhood gang. I used to wear several layers under my leather to make myself look bigger. I would wear a short-sleeve T-shirt plus a long-sleeve sweatshirt plus my blue jean jacket all under my leather. I easily looked like I weighed 25 lbs more. It made my arms and shoulders look a lot bigger. I did it to try to make any other potential abuser look elsewhere. It was all about me trying to intimidate others away from me.

How you reacted as a teenager is quite normal. Teens don't react the same way that adults do. Teens have to trust adults and your trust was taken advantage of many, many times, as mine was. I look back at where I was and the progress that I made and its hard to figure why I had to suffer for as long as I did. I just wasn't ready to take the chance. I was too scared to give up the only coping strategy that had worked for me. I tried to do everything alone up until my first marriage. I had the support of my first wife, at least initially. Then it all fell apart and I was right back where I started from.

Try to look-up a post that I made to Arronb on the open forum last night. It is more of a mid-level survivor topic but I think that maybe you could benefit some from what I said to him. It was a post about trying to merge my professional outgoing personality with my much more closely guarded personal personality.

Then you get to see someone shot while you're tied-up, naked, vulnerable, and helpless. You realize what your life is worth to your abuser. You do whatever he says to try to live a little longer. Maybe you disassociate or leave your abused body and watch your abuse taking place from the standpoint of the 3rd person. Then you repress your memories while at the same time you adopt an aggressive personality to try to protect yourself. You go off of the deep end with alcohol and drugs to try to suppress your memories. And in my own case it led to marrying the wrong person for the wrong reasons. She married the person that I appeared to be outwardly even though my outward appearance was a coping strategy totally designed to push others away.

I'm happy that your still married. Has your wife ever attended survivor-issue counseling with you?

My wife and I argued last night about my involvement on this site. I felt that my volunteering and sharing was important to me and possibly beneficial to others and she felt like I was wasting time that could be more productively spent. Even the closeness of marriage is no guarantee that your wife will be supportive and understanding on every issue. Maybe she should talk with your therapist so that she can better understand the pace of your progress. If you stay with it for a solid three or four years you should be a lot better off. Maybe in a year or two a recovery weekend would be beneficial to you. You are going to have to be able to trust others enough to open-up and be frank with them in an intensive setting though.

Be careful with repressed memories. What you are remembering is how you reacted at the time. My little sister repressed a large portion of her childhood. At one point in therapy she remembered that our father had abused her. It was the last straw in my parent's marriage. And several years later she retracted her accusation and couldn't say for certain who had been her abuser at that age. Now she is in her early 40s and has a Masters degree in counseling, and is leading abused woman's therapy groups. She is a totally different person than she was back in her 20s and early 30s, when she was suppressing her pain with the wrong crowd. She too is engaged to marry again. Her fiance is someone who is more in line with her current self.

I hope that you might find some of this helpful. Hold your head up and please don't abuse yourself. You have nothing to abuse yourself over. You did what you had to do to survive. And now you are among people who are willing to support you. We have all been there and only want what is best for you. I'm certainly not out to abuse you. I just wanted to try to help point you in the right direction or give you some hope. I was hoping to help keep you in your program. It looked to me at first like you were trying to justify running away. I ran away lots of times and thats the main reason that it took me so long to get to where I'm at now.

I will be leaving town this evening and won't be back until Thursday evening. I'll try to get back to you tonight if you respond to me today. Everyone on this site is hopeful for your continued progress. None of us want to hurt you.

Let me know. Hope that all is well. You can call me by my own name if you are comfortable doing so. My name is Mark.

Take care my man,

Mark


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#227102 - 05/27/08 03:03 PM Re: Rape and Guns [Re: Trucker51]
LW1527 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/14/08
Posts: 408
Loc: Salt Lake City Ut
My therapist is okay about MS support. He told me I was doing transferance, putting my dad's reactions onto him which is normal. My therapist told me I am in a dangerous place right now and that I am experiencing the shock from being raped and then the murder. We talked about the murder today. I only had some pieces. I told him without any emotion what had happened and how he had chased me with the gun into the streets at night. I've been telling my therapist for weeks now about the dead man in the apartment lying on the bed covered with blood. Another man had shot him in the chest at close range then he beat me and beat me. I fought back. I ran. I escaped somehow. I feel like my insides have gallons of poison. I know now I was wrong for going into those places downtown late at night. I wasn't scared and I didn't care what happened to me. There was this man I met. He was maybe in his twenties. He had an apartment in the dark part of town. I didn't know what would happen, but the excitment was awesome. I liked dark places. I didn't know what he was going to do. He was nice, too nice. Then it happened not once, but several times, over and over again. I would just go back and he would do it over and over again. I hated it, but I wanted more. Sounds sick, like I didn't have any control. I should have stopped, but I couldn't until someone shot him. I have dreams about the murder. My therapist wondered how I got out without being caught. I told him that I was a fast runner. I don't remember. I just know I did and I hid in the dark stairs that led to some other building's celler. I stopped my breathing. They can hear you breathining, you know? I learned to stop breathing and act like I was dead especially at night when dad or someone would come into my room. Can't show emotion or it is worse. Understand? Yes, can't show emotion at all. That's why I didn't care what happened to me down town. I didn't even care if I was killed, but my therapist disagrees with my opinion on that. I don't feel well. My therapist told me it would take some time to get through the shock. I'm trying to see him again later this week maybe. I talk about it, but I have no feelings, just sick inside, just spacy like I'm not really here. He told me that was normal. I guess it is.


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#227622 - 05/29/08 04:13 PM Re: Rape and Guns [Re: LW1527]
blueshift Offline
Guest

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 1242
Loc: infinity
This is a long thread with too much triggers for me to read it through, but I just want to say I relate. I was raped at gunpoint four years ago and it's very hard now to watch TV or see a movie because there are so many scenes with guns pointed at the camera that freak me out. I never realized how many scenes like that there are in movies till that happened to me. I was already petrified of guns when it happened because I had already been shot three years prior when I had attempted "suicide by cop".

I may have already read too much of this thread and got too triggered to be any help here at least right now, but I'll try to come back and talk more later, but it definitely looks like you aren't alone here in what you are going through.

_________________________
My Story
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