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#224929 - 05/18/08 08:10 PM The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encounters
Hauser Offline
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Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3845190963595588144

JUST SAY NO to police searches!

This educational film should be shown in every High School Government or Civics class.

More information can be found here: http://www.flexyourrights.org/index.php

_________________________________________________________________

http://www.flexyourrights.org/quiz (I got 7 out of 8 right)

Think you know your rights during police encounters?

Answer these 8 short questions, and see how prepared you are.

1) The Patriot Act increases police power during traffic stops.
True
False

2) Undercover officers must admit they’re police when asked.
True
False

3) During a traffic stop, police may automatically perform a weapons pat-down.
True
False

4) Fourth Amendment protections still apply if you’re a minor.
True
False

5) Officers have to read you your rights when you're arrested, or you can’t be charged.
True
False

6) Refusing a search gives police a legal basis to detain you.
True
False

7) Drug checkpoints are unconstitutional.
True
False

8) You can be arrested for refusing to identify yourself to a police officer.
True
False



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#224930 - 05/18/08 08:23 PM Re: The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encounters [Re: Hauser]
GateKPR4 Offline
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Registered: 10/28/07
Posts: 955
Loc: North Carolina, USA
I got 4 right

_________________________
I'm a normal person dealing with abnormal experiences.
The greatest discoveries we will find within ourselves.
Ricky
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#224931 - 05/18/08 08:27 PM Re: The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encounters [Re: GateKPR4]
ak Offline
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Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 1491
I got 5 right (but am not U.S. citizen, so I excuse myself!)


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#224952 - 05/18/08 11:27 PM Re: The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encounters [Re: ak]
Still Offline
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Oh Hauser...there you go again! Don't you realize that a stronger, more autonomous police force will keep us all safer? Dont let stupid little procedural issues like search-n-seizure laws get in the way of keeping my children safe! I hope you dont become one of those freaks who waves the old "constitution" around like it means something in 2008. I mean...its not like the British army is still here...right?

Look dude...I've got my flat-panel, plasma TV world all secure for me and mine. Please dont rain on it...OK?

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The Aftermath Video

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#224959 - 05/18/08 11:45 PM Re: The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encounters [Re: Still]
EGL Offline
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I think I'd rather take my chances in a society with a police force than in a society without one.

_________________________
Eddie

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#224972 - 05/19/08 01:10 AM Re: The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encoun [Re: EGL]
Hauser Offline
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As would I Eddie, HOWEVER...................

It has become commonplace now for police to stop people for absolutely no valid reason and search them (after gaining their "consent") in the mere hopes of finding contraband, unlicensed weapons, etc.

Police performance should be measured in terms of how much crime (against people or their property) they prevent, and how much they have gained the trust and support of the communities they serve, not how many arrests they can make.

Have you ever wondered how many young people unnecessarily damage their futures because of an easily prevented search and it's resulting arrest? One stupid misdemeanor on your record, especially a drug charge, can exclude one from MANY career options later in life. People need this knowledge to protect themselves.

Should I present this to the local school board and ask them to consider making this part of their civics class? \:\) hehe Oh, wait, forget it, they're too busy drug-testing their students right now to bother with this.


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#225000 - 05/19/08 06:54 AM Re: The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encoun [Re: Hauser]
reality2k4 Offline
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I got 5 right, but by next year, that will dwindle still further.
We live in a society where we are all under suspicion, and surveillance anyhow,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#225018 - 05/19/08 08:39 AM Re: The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encoun [Re: Hauser]
Still Offline
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Originally Posted By: Hauser
Oh, wait, forget it, they're too busy drug-testing their students right now to bother with this.


OH WAIT....they're too busy drawing blood from drivers on the highway. http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/950817,dui051408.article



_________________________
When the phone don't ring, I'll know its you.

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#225019 - 05/19/08 08:42 AM Re: The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encounters [Re: EGL]
Still Offline
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Originally Posted By: EGL
I think I'd rather take my chances in a society with a police force than in a society without one.


Same here Eddie...but we are rapidly losing our police forces and gaining militarized forces.



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When the phone don't ring, I'll know its you.

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#225030 - 05/19/08 09:34 AM Re: The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encounters [Re: Hauser]
Darren Offline
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I got 5 right. This is a great resource and is good information to know for every citizen. It's so easy now, with the popularity of today's crime-dramas, to buy into the mentality that all police action is thoughtful and good, and that police always act with the best of intentions. Not always so.

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#225034 - 05/19/08 10:00 AM Re: The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encoun [Re: Darren]
feelingafraid Offline
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Edited by feelingafraid (11/24/08 06:41 PM)
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#225051 - 05/19/08 11:56 AM Re: The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encoun [Re: feelingafraid]
Hauser Offline
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Well..........you're getting a little off track there from the original intent of my post FA. In the greater scheme of things, yours is a worthy perspective to keep in mind, BUT,...........

My intent was along the same lines as, for example, why we primarily educate teens about sex in school, which is to prevent unwanted pregnancies and STD's, right? Well, how about preventing unwanted arrests? That's all I was trying to address.


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#225078 - 05/19/08 01:47 PM Re: The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encoun [Re: Hauser]
VN Offline
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Originally Posted By: Hauser


Have you ever wondered how many young people unnecessarily damage their futures because of an easily prevented search and it's resulting arrest? One stupid misdemeanor on your record, especially a drug charge, can exclude one from MANY career options later in life. People need this knowledge to protect themselves.


Perhaps the better choice would be to not break the law. That would be knowledge that could protect someone.

VN


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#225096 - 05/19/08 02:30 PM Re: The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encoun [Re: VN]
Freedom49 Offline
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Good point VN

by the way 8 out of 8


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#225107 - 05/19/08 02:58 PM Re: The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encoun [Re: Freedom49]
reality2k4 Offline
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It's not about not breaking laws, it's about knowing your rights!
Often they get trivial offenders, instead of using discretion.
The reason, is, to make up the crime clean up figures, whilst
leaving the real baddies to carry on.

A cop said to me when leaving the police.
Now, I can really be me, rather than part of a regime, that
does not adhere to the force I joined so long ago.
"Todays policing is not real policing, but it's for the new breed
of career cops".

I would hate to be part of any ethnic group other than white, in this or any white majority country.
Also, I would not want to look like a stereotypical criminal, like many teens tend to fall into.

Then of course there are terrorists on every corner, so watch out, it may be you!

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#225113 - 05/19/08 03:26 PM Re: The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encoun [Re: reality2k4]
Hauser Offline
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Loc: United States
And what about the indignity and inconvenience of improper police searches and arrests? What do you do then?

Knowing that I'm innocent is little comfort to me when the police are rummaging through my personal belongings, in the middle of public view, with drug dugs and lights going off, etc.

Maybe you don't mind being searched because you're "innocent", but I prefer to be LEFT ALONE.


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#225122 - 05/19/08 03:43 PM Re: The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encoun [Re: Hauser]
ak Offline
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Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 1491
Perhaps some people here are more used to more, specific 'personal liberties' then others are. Please remember that this is not an all-U.S. board, and that there are members of other cultures. To use just your own culture to judge the ideas of others is quite 'ethnocentric', and actually, quite rude. All here have the rights to their opinions.

And I do agree, that to do something illegal, it is just wrong, and if you are caught, you must bear the consequences. If a 'small misdemeanor, especially regarding drugs' is to cause much harder life years later, then it seem quite stupid to have anything to do with drugs. At all. MY opinion.

By the way, for competitions, I have to be subjected to random drug testing (And mandatory if I am a medalist). I am innocent of use of any banned substances, but still, if I am chosen, I must do it. The fact that I know it will be 'clean' means I don't have to worry of the results, and if it is 'indignity and inconvenience' I don't mind. I would rather be competing in a sport that takes pride enough in itself to ensure it is competed with as little cheating as possible. I have never heard any athlete from any country complain about this. We all know it is part of the privelege of being able to do what we do. Perhaps there are things involved that are part of the privelege of having the amount of personal liberties some people here have.

andrei


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#225128 - 05/19/08 04:24 PM Re: The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encoun [Re: Hauser]
reality2k4 Offline
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Quote:
Maybe you don't mind being searched because you're "innocent", but I prefer to be LEFT ALONE.


I don't remember saying I was innocent, because, I never can remember what that really means.
I live in UK, which has similar stop formalities, but I would refuse to identify myself for no reason, other than being stopped.

As for searches, I would expect them to rationalize, why?
They feel the need for it, and explain my rights under "Habeus Corpus". My right to live as a free citizen, unless, they have stopped me for a reason, and then I have the basic human right, to remain silent, and to resist bodily searches,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#225175 - 05/19/08 07:49 PM Re: The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encoun [Re: reality2k4]
istrong Offline
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Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 79
Loc: CT
I got 8 out of 8 right...I am a CJ major (freshly graduated) so I guess I had an unfair advantage. Just a little tip, always identify yourself, never run away, and if they ask to search, always respectfully decline. Because in the states, if your in a high crime area (which is pretty much every where) and you either run or refuse to idetify yourself, then bingo they have reasonable suspicion to pat you down (not seach) but they tend to be able to find the litte baggies with special herbs in them when they pat you down.

tom

_________________________
"Go then, there are other worlds than these"
-John 'Jake' Chambers

I'd rather be above the grass than below it.

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#225183 - 05/19/08 08:21 PM Re: The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encoun [Re: istrong]
Still Offline
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Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6501
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My frnd was recently in criminal court regarding his DUI offense. One guy ahead of him (age 20ish) was recving sentencing for the guilty finding of posession of pot. He got 3 years (as in 3 fkg years) for one joint.

So "planting of herb," as Tom describes above, is quite serious. Best to never piss-off a cop. They always win.

_________________________
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#225262 - 05/20/08 03:48 AM Re: The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encoun [Re: Still]
Brian Offline
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Registered: 05/03/01
Posts: 1563
Loc: Upstate NY
I'm all for our citizens being educated of their legal rights when being approached by the police. If their rights are found to have been violated, they should be compensated for it and the officers should be held accountable (suspended, held civilly liable, fired and/or go to jail - whatever is appropriate). That being said, I also believe that citizens should be taught to obey the laws OR be prepared to pay the consequences (It's very interesting that our Russian friends seem to have a very good understanding of this). Sadly, many of our young people have parents who just failed to educate their children to be responsible, law abiding citizens . These children grow up and have children of their own and it doesn't seem to me that this is going to change anytime soon. It's really sad to see this everyday. Many kids just don't have a chance. \:\(

I've been a police officer for over 19 1/2 years. Unfortunately, I don't have the time to correct all the misinformation in this thread but I do want to make a point. I work in a medium sized department that has a horrible reputation (very well deserved). I will be retiring at the end of this year and I can't wait to get out of there! Five percent of our officers make the other 95% look rotten to the core! This, along with the lack of public support, takes a heavy toll on us. I suspect that this percentage is a fair estimation of all police departments across the country. I hope that most of the negative comments on this thread are referring to just a few of those 5% who you see on the nightly news because the other 95% (and even some of the 5%) risk injury or even death for people they don't even know on a daily basis.

I would bet anything that I'm as angry and disgusted as all of you put together! Unfortunately, many of the good officers get their time in and retire as soon as they possibly can. They take their pensions and start second careers selling flowers at airports or hot dogs on street corners (would you like a bag of chips with that?)!! \:\)

Sorry for the rant!

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Recovery is Possible!

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#225291 - 05/20/08 09:12 AM Re: The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encoun [Re: Brian]
EGL Offline
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Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 7821
Brian,

Firstly, thank you for your service to your community for the nearly 20 years you have put in as a police officer. I know it has to probably be one of the most thankless jobs out there, but it is also one that we should be the most gratefull for that there are people like yourself who are willing to take on the job of putting your own life on the line.

And thanks for that thought that it's probably a small percentage of cops who make the whole lot look bad. I think that's very true, because we rarely ever hear good press about the good cops and what they're doing - seems like the media only pounces on what the bad ones are doing. And good luck in your retirement! \:\)

Personally, I would not mind being stopped and searched because I have nothing to hide. I see it akin to going through searches at the airport - if it makes all of us safer, I don't care. And I actually HAVE been stopped and searched before, and I was even bent over the police cruiser and handcuffed during it. My offense - I was driving through a neighborhood where some vandalism had just occurred and I guess I was a likely suspect. This was back when I was about 20 years old, and the officer finally figured out from the bag of Cheerioes and such he found during his search that my wife and I had only been going to the grocery store. Did it shake me up? Sure. But I knew I had nothing to hide.

_________________________
Eddie

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#225314 - 05/20/08 11:56 AM Re: The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encoun [Re: EGL]
Hauser Offline
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So, let me see if I get this right ok? EVERY law should be obeyed unquestioningly? There are no such things as ill-conceived or unjust laws? EVERY law deserves absolute respect and obedience?

Accepting the notion that we must be responsible for the consequences for any form of civil disobedience, let's consider a few scenarios:

A small city council (not the people) passes a smoking ban in any public place and private business, including bars, sidewalks and parks. Does it deserve to be obeyed?

A state legislature passes a mandatory seat-belt law, regardless of the will of the people that they claim to represent. Does it deserve to be obeyed?

The Federal Government passes a law dictating that no one can possess a firearm within 1000 feet of a school, even if it’s in your very own house. Should it be obeyed? (they tried this back in the 90’s and the Supreme Court, in a rare ruling that actually upheld our rights, stuck it down as too encompassing.)

If the Federal Government decides that they need a draft again, should all eligible young male citizens line up at the recruitment center?

If the Federal Government decided (once again) that it was ok to force certain ethnic minorities to sit in the back of a transit bus, should that law be obeyed? But why not? It was the law wasn't it?

Do laws that are passed merely to go along with the prevailing prejudices of that time deserve our absolute and unquestioning obedience? I say thee, NAY! Civil disobedience has always been the outspoken hallmark in the progression of any free society.

Should you face the consequences for disobeying these laws? Well, yes, it's not as if you have a choice in the matter, IF you're caught.

But, how about offering some helpful knowledge to people, in the course of their civil disobedience? There is nothing inherently wrong with being armed with legal knowledge.




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#225338 - 05/20/08 03:33 PM Re: The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encoun [Re: Hauser]
reality2k4 Offline
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Registered: 07/06/04
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I think that the guys on this board, pretty much try their hardest to stay within the law, but if the law wants to stop me for any other reason that they "think" I look suspicious, or just for the sake of filling in a stop form, they can think again.

Knowing and respectfully using your rights, is one thing we all have to know, without fear of reprisal by some 'bad apple'.
A joint, or a small bag of herbs, should never land an otherwise lawful being in jail.

The police are "target driven", to make it look like they are tough on crime and criminals, when sadly, they pick on the vulnerable in society to make up the numbers.

Thanks Brian for being a good cop, but the bad ones will make you all look the same, and before long, the good cops are replaced by an all new police force, consisting of indiscriminate police, who see everyone as a potential criminal, instead of understanding the community etc.

If I had some money, I would move to a leafy village where nothing goes on, or maybe move to Ireland where life really still is the way it should be,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#225478 - 05/21/08 12:33 AM Re: The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encoun [Re: reality2k4]
Brian Offline
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Registered: 05/03/01
Posts: 1563
Loc: Upstate NY
Quote:
So, let me see if I get this right ok? EVERY law should be obeyed unquestioningly? There are no such things as ill-conceived or unjust laws? EVERY law deserves absolute respect and obedience?


Hauser, thats not what I'm saying. If you read it again, I said, "... citizens should be taught to obey the laws OR be prepared to pay the consequences". Anyone can do anything that they want; we all make thousands of choices everyday - what to have for lunch, wearing their seat belts, abusing a child, or murder. If you decide to engage in activity that constitutes a crime, you must be prepared to accept the consequences. The consequences may include a fine, jail, or a judge throwing out the charges due to police misconduct. It could also lead to the legislature seeing the light and changing the law!

Following your line of reasoning, the next question is WHO decides what laws should or shouldn't be obeyed? Do we leave it up to the individual and let them be their own judge and jury? Many sex offenders would love this type of justice system! Would it be okay if they really believed deep down that they were not harming anyone?

What about the police? Would they be the only ones that would be required to obey every single law? What if the police believed the criminals had way too many rights? Would it be okay for them to disobey the law just because they felt like it? What about if they had the day off and were not on the clock? Would they be allowed to make up their own rules then?

Alan, I know what you are saying and I agree with a lot of it. Our system SUCKS but unfortunately, it's the best we have!

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Recovery is Possible!

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#225500 - 05/21/08 05:31 AM Re: The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encoun [Re: Brian]
soapy bubbles Offline
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Registered: 09/05/06
Posts: 332
Loc: london
Ste - I think you've got a rather rose-tinted view of Ireland! It's a great place, but has its ups and downs just like any other society
SB

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"Though we travel the world over to find the beautiful, we must carry it with us or we find it not.” ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

“Nobody can make you feel inferior without your permission.” --- Eleanor Roosevelt

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#225797 - 05/22/08 01:21 PM Re: The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encoun [Re: Hauser]
melliferal Offline
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Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 1159
Originally Posted By: Hauser

If the Federal Government decided (once again) that it was ok to force certain ethnic minorities to sit in the back of a transit bus, should that law be obeyed? But why not? It was the law wasn't it?


Actually, that was Montgomery city ordinance, and Alabama state law, that allowed for segregated buses. A federal district court ruled this unconstitutional in 1956, a ruling which the city and state appealed. A few months later, the federal government (as the US Supreme Court) upheld the district court's ruling, and put an end to segregated buses.

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Children cannot consent; they can only comply.

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#225801 - 05/22/08 01:40 PM Re: The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encoun [Re: melliferal]
Hauser Offline
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Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
It was still a law.


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#225809 - 05/22/08 02:41 PM Re: The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encoun [Re: soapy bubbles]
reality2k4 Offline
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SB, I was just thinking of somewhere, where there are few people, and more animals

ste

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