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#224439 - 05/15/08 06:10 PM ulp
ineffable Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/08
Posts: 1371
Loc: state of holeecrapdood
Brian recently challenged me to personalize a thread

So here goes "nothing"

I am a huge avoider (my middle initial is A & it stands for avoidance among other things)
Even when it came to this
Because it had or has to do with me
I will go out of my way for someone else I care about as long as little or ideally nothing about me is involved
My observations? Sure! My knowledge? Don't mind if I do...
What's going on "with" me?
eeesh
Someone here asked a series a questions months ago & I have avoided answering them
I also promised him a long email to catch him up
Nothing
I am avoiding facing myself by not* putting me down in words & the reality that is my life (or lack thereof)
I have next to no self trust
Because I continually let myself & others down
I neglect to follow through
I procrastinate
Doing things for myself I feel nothing
So why bother

God personalizing sucks

C

* edited to add "not" whoa talk about freudian slips without it



Edited by ineffable (05/15/08 06:24 PM)
_________________________
:: "Anyone who can handle a needle convincingly can make us see a thread which is not there" ::


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#224465 - 05/15/08 09:47 PM Re: ulp [Re: ineffable]
mogigo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 1331
Loc: Colorado
Maybe what that someone really really needed was you to answer those questions so it would be really really helpful for him with his stuff to have those questions answered

Wouldn't want to miss a chance to help yourself, I mean someone, would you Craig

Mike

_________________________
Thriving

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#224471 - 05/15/08 10:18 PM Re: ulp [Re: mogigo]
ineffable Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/08
Posts: 1371
Loc: state of holeecrapdood
Hey Mike

I get what you are saying
Ironically they were all very "surface" questions like 5 things you hate, etc &
there were a lot all at once
I felt almost like I was being interrogated
I also like to think about things when I can before responding
(trying to be less reactive)
If I felt answering would have helped someone/myself in my recovery I would have answered
them all swiftly & the best I could
In this case, maybe building trust?

I have difficulty with casual conversation (as a few here have experienced)
As well, I honestly was ashamed when I thought how my answers would compare to the asker's experience
Comparison sucks almost as much as personalization

Mike, if at anytime, I deflected anything you have asked me about, please forgive me
I am trying to be more revealing in a personal way

C




_________________________
:: "Anyone who can handle a needle convincingly can make us see a thread which is not there" ::


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#224484 - 05/15/08 11:02 PM Re: ulp [Re: ineffable]
mogigo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 1331
Loc: Colorado
Hey, no worries this way Craig, was just trying to maybe put a different spin on it so it might not be so.....personal?

Maybe those surface question's would be a really good place to start, not too revealing, not too problematic? Being challenged is a good way to recieve some good feedback about ourselves. People that can challenge us usually are trying to offer some constructive opinion's, and if the feedback is taken in the proper context (caring) it can be a good way to move forward with our stuff. Maybe the answers to those questions weren't really the point.

I talked once in a post about taking a step out of our comfort zone and then taking one more step. It seems that those "surface" questions might be a step out of your's. Could be a nice safe way to take that first step.

I had always wondered what you might say if you tried to describe what was ineffable about you? Sorry that might be a tough one.

Feel free to PM Craig but thought it might be good here.

One more step Craig

Love ya
Stay strong
Mike

PS: as you know, you can always tell me to shut up anytime you want

_________________________
Thriving

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#224705 - 05/17/08 11:05 AM Re: ulp [Re: mogigo]
arronb Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/02/08
Posts: 1005
Loc: Perth
Intimacy … vulnerability … selfworth … trust …
Bang … big deflect

Hello Craig …

I am glad you’ve taken up Brians challenge … it was a great first effort.

I think you can take it further, because as someone who cares about you I’ve noted
it’s a rather impersonal personal post.

‘so here goes nothing’ – ppplease … you are far from nothing Craig, it’s a theme you presented thru out this post, I think I’ll take the opportunity to set ya straight here, you are one of the most caring individuals I have come across, by helping others you are helping yourself and if you truly felt you were worth nothing, you wouldn’t make the effort.

In your ineffable style you have bought up some issues you struggle with …
Intimacy, vulnerability, self worth and trust.

Yet in your usual ineffable style you have thrown in a big deflect with terms like ‘they were all very "surface" questions’ and ‘being interrogated’ thus insuring nobody asks you any questions, probing or otherwise. As a friend my comment about your posts would be “I love how you ask a question, answer it youself, but we are left with more questions that can’t be asked” …

Moggie had you by the short and curlys with his “I had always wondered what you might say if you tried to describe what was ineffable about you?” question but he gave you an out with … “Sorry that might be a tough one.” Which I note you’ve duly accepted.

So my friend … lets get personal … how about trying to answer this question without taking the easy ‘outs’

I had always wondered what you might say if you tried to describe what was ineffable about you?

_________________________
Keep Smilin'
arronb

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#224714 - 05/17/08 11:36 AM Re: ulp [Re: arronb]
ak Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 1491
Craig,

I have never thought of you as an 'unpersonal' person, and have never felt uncomfortable with what amount or such you choose to share here. I have been fortunate to be able to have some 'conversation' with you in PM, and think you are very intelligent, very questioning, very honest about yourself, even if you are not sharing so much details. You present as an honest, flawed, amazing person, and I do not need to know what is your favorite color, or what kind of vegetable you hate to know how I feel of you.

But it do seem that this is issue to you, something you are feeling strong things about, and as such as that, I am glad that you are making the 'leap' to personalizing more here. Because no matter how 'deep' or superficial we may present, no matter how much of our soul we offer to others or not, in the end, it is us ourself that we can not escape from, and so must answer to our own expectation of our character. (Um. That I think probably do not make sense, but at least I know what I am meaning! Maybe after some weeks of PM with me, you do also!)

There are people who have been here for years and have not shared so much deep and personal things of themselves, their past or present. It is all with what we are comfortable with, because to push ourself to more, that is rather like a self-abuse I think. I am very happy with getting to know whatever you feel you can share. And you are worth it for me to wait for the rest.

andrei


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#224723 - 05/17/08 12:35 PM Re: ulp [Re: ak]
Freedom49 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 2723
Loc: Washington State
Craig,
I have notice that in one on on situations you can and do get personal to an extent. I have been bless with that with our chats on occasion.


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#224830 - 05/18/08 11:25 AM Re: ulp [Re: Freedom49]
ineffable Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/08
Posts: 1371
Loc: state of holeecrapdood
Ineffable - that which can't be put into words
I chose this because I have been through a lot of therapy
I believed (& I still do somewhat) that if I found "THE" answer it/I would be ok
The term serves to remind me that that which I am searching for may be just that
Unable to be put into words

I also believe there is a "location" inside myself where I feel from
My "co-ordinates", kinda like the GPS of my being
The location of my conception, I carry it
It is the centre of my consciousness
It's why I do yoga, meditate & head/handstands
To try to feel where I feel my being from (which is different from where I think from)

I believe we are "mantenna's" (think antenna & extrapolate)
Our senses, the electrical activity in our brains, the electromagnetic field of our hearts, the polarity of our blood
Emotions, desire, the heebie jeebies, the hair that stands up on the back of our heads
Goosebumps
Laughter
The 5 F's
Do I want to fight you? feast on you? flee from you? freeze in front of you? or frack you?
A good friend suggested a 6th one.
Do I want to be friends with you

I have talked myself out of feelings
& talked myself around feelings
& talked about my feelings
Relatively, I haven't talked much while in my feelings
Fragments in therapy & holee crap sometimes here at MS
(dang you Frost & Gav & Ben & Roger & Andrei & Mike & Scott & Jarrad & Brown & Hauser & Texas Ninja & ...)

About therapy
I have been going into the abuse memories deep deep deep in the last 3 years
My T's most recent comment was that most people get better doing that
I have only gotten worse
I take that to mean I am not dealing with the deeper or real issues

I have though accepted that a normal life aint in the cards fer me
but a life is
& like my friend Ben I hold the cards to that life

I want love
I want to be loved
I want to love
I have felt love here
I have felt loved here
It has terrified me
It has brought me to tears
It's what keeps me here

There will be more

C


_________________________
:: "Anyone who can handle a needle convincingly can make us see a thread which is not there" ::


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#224844 - 05/18/08 12:43 PM Re: ulp [Re: ineffable]
mogigo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 1331
Loc: Colorado
\:\) \:\) \:\) \:\) wonderful!!! and the more we know you the more lovable you are. Sounds like a plan.

It's hard and scary and and and, but the adult Craig is very very capable of handling it and keeping you safe.

Very impressed and proud of you Craig

Love Ya
Mike

PS: Me and Aaron are coming for ya Jarrad

_________________________
Thriving

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#225024 - 05/19/08 08:54 AM Re: ulp [Re: mogigo]
Lazarus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/01/07
Posts: 851
Loc: Below the radar, USA
That's a hard one to follow when time is limited, but...

I consider everyone who has posted to this thread a dear friend, some of my best friends ever. Mike, you are much wiser and nicer than I thought of you at first, my bad. Arron, gotten any polystyrene yet? (inside joke.) Roger, I hope you're feeling better; I know I am. AK I love your accent and even at it's thickest your caring and widsom always comes through loud and clear. And Craig;

That was a beautiful post, something ineffable that was actually put into words very eloquently. Don't you worry about a thing, my friend. I hope you don't take diagnostic surveys that seriously! I should have made it multiple choice... I think it was mostly because these innocent little interrogations were coming from me that you put so much weight on them. Why is that? Well, I think I know, but it's not relevant to this discussion. PM me!

Craig, you see my life in ways that I don't see. I empathize with a lot of things you are feeling, but if I were as complex as you make me out to be, that empathy would be antithetical, wouldn't it? I live a pretty normal life, with normal duties and obligations, and with seriously screwed desires and expectations. And, I have kids, which impacts everything about me. How did I get up on this pedastal, and could somebody please get me a step-stool??? LOL

We know a lot about you, Craig. We all still like (love) you for exactly who you are. I wish I could convince you not to be so hyperanalytical, but how would I do that since I'm the same way. I love your introspection, and I love the way you verbalize the results. Sometimes I cringe at your conclusions, though. But hey, it's your life.

Gotta run. Love you guys. Love you, C.

Lazarus W.W.L.L. Smith, esq.

aka Ric



Edited by Lazarus (05/19/08 03:29 PM)
_________________________
"That which does not kill us, surely makes us stonger." - Neitsche

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#225141 - 05/19/08 05:12 PM Re: ulp [Re: ineffable]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Craig,

Originally Posted By: ineffable
I want love
I want to be loved
I want to love
I have felt love here
I have felt loved here
It has terrified me
It has brought me to tears
It's what keeps me here

There will be more.


Good!!! I think you're doing a great job talking through all these problems. Has it helped you?

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#225376 - 05/20/08 06:43 PM Re: ulp [Re: roadrunner]
ineffable Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/08
Posts: 1371
Loc: state of holeecrapdood
Originally Posted By: arronb
Intimacy... vulnerability... selfworth... trust...
Bang... big deflect


Hey Gav... ya missed one... how about control?

Fear has controlled most of my life
It has gotten the better of me
It had got the best of me too
Until I came here
Sometimes I can bring it out & give the best of me here
Fear is still in there BIGTIME
But I deal
In my signature 3D stands for DEEP DEEP DEEP
cuz that's where I need to go

I came here mainly because I was lonely & I wanted to be known... maybe even accepted by my peers
I was looking to make meaningful connections with men who had experienced fucked up shit like I had
Because I figured that would be all it would take... to have that in common
I was wrong
Pain does different things to us & we deal & cope in our own ways
& ironically it isn't someones pain I initially feel
It is something... ineffable?

I wasn't groomed by any of my abusers
It was more opportunistic abuse for want to a better term
Resulting from the neglect of my parents
I cut them way too much slack because I want to avoid a shitload of pain & RAGE
Because if I go 3D I have to own that my biggest issue in Recovery is the betrayal
I suffered by the "concept" of parenthood & not the abusive experiences

Personal enuff for the time being

There will be more

Andrei
Your perspective surprises & refreshes me.
By the way, my favourite colour is green & I hate canned peas... squash too

Roger
Yes I have always done best one on one
I like to give who I am with my full attention & I get antsy in a crowd
Even in a chat room

Mike
Thanks for the warm words & let me know how you & arron fare with Jarrad

Laz
Hyperanalytical served me well in the past.
All about self protection bro but that is changing slowly here.
Hey... it's A life
\:\)

Larry
Yes it has helped me talking through the "love problem".
My friendships here are much stronger &
I have actually been able to be "in" my feelings more so since posting this.

C


_________________________
:: "Anyone who can handle a needle convincingly can make us see a thread which is not there" ::


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#225432 - 05/20/08 11:00 PM Re: ulp [Re: ineffable]
ineffable Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/08
Posts: 1371
Loc: state of holeecrapdood
I was so starved for attention, acceptance & approval as a kid I literally would scour where we lived from top to bottom
& move all the furniture around (it's in the genes)
Then when my parents came home I made dang sure that they noticed EVERY SINGLE THING I HAD DONE
That shows up here when I ask my bros "did you see my response to... what did you think of my..."
I used to hate the part of myself
Now I recognize him as who he is
We all want/need attention, acceptance & approval
To get it from some we would & have done anything/everything
I am at peace with this now however it appears in myself
When it appears in others wanting/needing it from me I still struggle

I don't minimize the importance, reality of or depth of intimacy in connections I've felt to those I have come to love here
I think the internet is amazing
But I think we do get caught up in the need fer speed of it & we are affected by needing instant gratification
We used to correspond by letters for years with it taking sometimes weeks for a reply
But I feel the depths can be the same as long as we are honest
& use the correct spellings of there their they're etc
(yeah I'm a word whore... deal or fuck off)
\:\)

I am still bargaining as Brian so aptly pointed out to me earlier today
That smarted a bit but I didn't blast him & I sure as shit have more respect for him telling me so
Superficialty is still something I am uncomfortable with
But it is where most communication starts & for that reason I have isolated myself much in the past
At the same time, my mother would tell ANYONE all the intimate creepy details of her life
Boundaries... eeesh
Yours, mine & ours

I am trying not to insist you meet me where I am comfortable all the time
Whether I succeed or not... you tell me

I have compassion for phone surveyors & porch to porch Evangelists
This post was just interrupted by two freshly scrubbed complete with name tags
Church of Latter Day Saints Go Marching up to my door steppers
I told them both I liked their ties, that I was a buddhist christian scientist mysticist & wished them a good night

There will be more

C

_________________________
:: "Anyone who can handle a needle convincingly can make us see a thread which is not there" ::


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#225496 - 05/21/08 03:14 AM Re: ulp [Re: ineffable]
frost Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/15/07
Posts: 1377
Loc: Eh?
and now for bumblebeeism from the frozen one.

i vote this becomes your new theme song Craig:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPyV1zHUCxg

Quote:
Lyrics, for your convenience:
I get deep, I get deep, I get deep, I get deeper
into this thing
the deeper I go
the more knowledge I know
what to sing
what to bring
wha?

I get deep, I get deep, I get deep, I get deeper, deeper, deeper
into the rhyme
wha? why?
Chillin' in the corner at the shelter all by myself
checkin it out im not dancin' no more but
why? why? why? wha?

How on earth are you supposed to vibe around the fake ones
the one, the ones that say
they know what is what but they don't know what is what
they just strut
what the fuck?

wha?
I get deep, I get deep, I get deep, I get deep, I get deeper
into this thing
and I pretend that they're not there
I just stare
up in the booth at the dread man spinnin the song
spinnin it strong
playing things like
we cannot house we can
thats my shit
what?
whoooooo!

I get deep, I get deep, I get deeper, I get deeper
when people start to disappear
and it's about six o'clock
whoo I'm feelin' hot
take off my sweater and my pants
and I start to dance
and all the sweat just goes down my face
and I pretend that there's nobody there but me in this place
I get deep, oh i get deep, what?
whoo!

I get deep, I get deep, I get deep, I get deep
he takes all the bass out of the song
and all you hear is highs and it's like
oh, shit!
ahh
I get deeper

I get deep, I get deep, I get deep, I get deep
and the rythym flows through my blood like alcohol
and I get drunk and I oh all over the place
And I catch myself
right on time
right on line
with the beat
and its so sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet

I get deeper
I get deeper
I get deeper

Wha? the house music was ale
and Doctor love would be my song
And I would only take deep breaths
and fill my lungs with the rythym or the bass
I get deeper
heh, ha

Now it's about three and I see people goin'
spinnin' jumpin' and grindin'
as if they had wings on their feet
raising both hands in the air as if Jesus was the DJ himself
spinnin those funky funky funky house beats

And in this temple we all pray in unity for the same thing
with matic pause without cause
bass from those high definition speakers
sitting in the corner on each side of the room
givin' us the boom boom boom
to our zoom zoom zoom
the smell of a L lit while walking by
but the music gets me high
saint defy like and old lady in church
we get happy
we stomp our feet
we clap our hands
we shout
we cry
we dance
and we say
sweet lord, speak to me
speak to me, speak to me, speak to me
because we love house music
and on this planet it brings us together
like a family reunion every week
we eat
we drink
we laugh
we play
and we skate
so for all you hip hoppers
you do woppers
name droppers
you bill boppers
come into our house
to get deep
what?
check it

These guys just keep it rollin'
You gotta just keep it rollin'
(x19)

Sunday, Monday morning (its backwards)

Out under the big bright yellow sun (x40)


your friend,
~Brian

_________________________
Boom!

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#225580 - 05/21/08 03:42 PM Re: ulp [Re: frost]
Freedom49 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 2723
Loc: Washington State
Holy Crap Craig. Your opening up like a sardine can. That is so.... uncraig-like and wonderful. The more I see the more warm fuzzy love ball I sense. Thanks for all of this. I hope it is as healing for you and it is revealing for us. Welcome brother.



Edited by Freedom49 (05/21/08 03:42 PM)

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#225860 - 05/22/08 07:15 PM Re: ulp [Re: ineffable]
arronb Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/02/08
Posts: 1005
Loc: Perth
Hello Craig …

Yes I missed out control LOL

So I take it from what ya say about control that you are getting a little edgy about ULPing ???

I sorta sense a bit of pulling back going on in the last post ... do you feel that by revealing yourself that you are losing too much control ?

That’s perfectly ok … this is your journey and all, but in the spirit of Brians challenge and your desire to go 3D you are gonna have to loosen ya grip on control no ?

I think this ties in to the way you word your posts … I have noticed that in your posts that
you lay down ‘ground rules’ as to what you will accept as a reply … do you do this consciously ?

to be honest I feel that to get the understanding that you want from others
that you have to allow people to question you outside of your guidelines ...
but I think you’re posts convey you wanting people to understand you before you’ll let them question you at all
It makes answering your posts a little difficult don't ya think ?




_________________________
Keep Smilin'
arronb

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