.

Bridge builder here. You rang??
At your service friend.

I believe our understanding is "at hand".

I love the feelings that arise in me when I read anything from you.

Dan

Mark,

This friend is not going to leave you! I need you as a friend because of all my failures and problems. You seem to understand me better than I do.

I hope I can be as much of a friend to you as you are to me. Please don't push me away. I NEED YOU!

Ken

Roger: Thanks for the kind response. I appreciate our chats.

Dan: The thought that what I write would evoke anything in someone is a bit daunting ... but you say you love the feelings that do show up - so I thank you for your kindness.

Ken: I don't mean to push people away, it just seems to happen. But PLEASE KNOW THIS - I value our friendship greatly. You are a kindred spirit in many ways, and I recognize your desire to be a friend. I've just never known how to deal with true friendship. But I am trying. Also, believe me when I say I need you as much as you need me - after my recent losses, I need you even more. Our friendship deepened at Outward Bound, and I treasure that so very much.


M

That was truly from the heart, Mark.

then why does it hurt so much

I hurt too when I consider the thoughts of that poem, Mark. I've had people drop out of my life or walk away. That's why I say it's from the heart. I've been down that road, and relate to how this feels.

Abandonment hurts. Rejection hurs on many levels. That is why it hurts so much because it is personal.

Love ya

i've decided there IS a way to not have it hurt. and that's don't expose yourself to the danger in the first place. if i can keep myself guarded against the initial connection, then there's no way to get hurt when it breaks - cuz it isn't there in the first place.

so i'm thinking maybe that should be my new strategy for life.

if i'm lucky, maybe it will work better than the other ones i've tried that all involved allowing others to hurt me over and over.

and if i'm wrong, it's not like it do any more damage than what's already been done.

How do I loathe Me?

Let me count the ways:

If you don’t like me, it’s OK, I understand, I don’t blame you

If you like me, you have yet to see all of me, when you do you’ll change your mind

However I look at it I will win at being the loser somehow.

What can I tell myself to see how foolish those thoughts are?

Answer: I listen to someone I respect ………. say it about himself

Then, once again, ……..I thank him for helping me to grow

you know
the only way i find to look at this
as a slam

so... is this is where i'm supposed to thank you for helping me grow?

In no way was that a "slam" I have a lot of respect for you Mark.

I am a 61 year old man who people call "lovable, gentle, kind,blah blah blah"; but I have no friends outside of work and as I look back at my life I see that I have always either kept up a wall to stop friendship before it started or find a justification for ending it by not being lovable, etc., etc.,

when I see someone using the same techniques that I have used to keep myself isolated it strikes a cord and when it comes from someone who has shown nothing but strength and compassion it makes me think the negative thoughts are unreal and should be re-examined regarding their validity.

I apologize for not being more clear in my de>

maybe offending people is the real reason I have no friends.
I don't want to be offensive but I am a lot of things I don't want to be.

ok - i am now being very dense i guess.
who is showing nothing "but strength and compassion" that makes you think negative thoughts are unreal? and why does it make you think negative thoughts are unreal or invalid?

color me confused.

I think we survivors have a tendency to judge ourselves harshly.

I have had a pattern of negating compliments and turning positive feedback into negative. During the brief conversation we had a few weeks ago, I read your words and percieved "strength and Compassion". I don't think I was off base.
I think that when I tend to turn a compliment into a negative just to reinforce my negative self esteem, it is invalid meaning I am not looking at it for what it is but rather for what it should be to fit into my mispercieved self image.

I think you read a lot more into my statements than I put into them. Your poem made me remember how I have treated possible friendships in my life and I was reflecting that. It obviously struck some chord in you and you have to deal with that yourself I don't know you or your thought patterns so it would be fruitless to debate fantasy.

Dan,

i don't want to debate. i want to understand. and i do - at least a little more now. you saw "strength and compassion" in me. that's what threw me so hard. i don't see that in me at all. i see a cowardly wimp that's cold and bitter. maybe some of my own negative self esteem reinforcement going on.

and now i think i understand your "How do I loathe me" post. a LOT better. i think we may share some of the same self-criticism, self-destructive mannerisms and thought processes. Which would be no surprise why our conversations can go down hill so fast.

reading more into someone else's statements than they put into them is part of this whole pattern isn't it? especially if that "more" is negative.....

i'm sorry if i stepped on your toes - i guess maybe i didn't realize we were so close in the same path for that moment.

M

Mark, Dan,

One thing I keep telling guys in this sort of situation is that these are the abuse issues talking. They aren't us. IOt's important to "own" our feelings so we can work on them, but it's also important to avoid the temptation of thinking that these feelings are all true. In the vast majority of cases they are not true, and that's the main gain we achieve by working on them.

Much love,
Larry