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#22404 - 08/22/05 06:24 PM Re: PARANOIA and HOMOPHOBIC reactions
Dewey2k Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 3069
I have read through this thread, and having been a victim of harrassment throughout my life,a molestation at a young age, and been in the Navy, I had to reply.

Firstly, the molestation is something I am just beginning to deal with, so I won't go into that right now.

I was harrassed throughout my school career from K-12, and the harassment did not stop until I left the Navy after six years at age 24. This took various forms from physical abuse to sexual harassment. In the Navy, especially while I was on the carrier, certain people would come up behind me, grab me and pretend to have sex. Others deliberately groped me, and yet others accused me of being gay because I didn't act like they did concerning females. The whole Navy environment breeds this kind of thing, especially with the cramped living conditions. (I am gay, but the abuse I suffered as a child made me repress it until I had an emotional breakdown.)

Regarding the military, and the Navy in particular: the establishments are hugely homophobic, which means that anything that can even remotely be linked to being gay is suspect. The psychologists in the military have one job: determine whether a servicemember's mental state places his or her fellows at risk, or makes them unfit for duty. They are not in the business of treating people for anything. I suspect that part of their method includes trying to shame people into "sucking it up" and to go on with their time in the service regardless of the mental and emotional damage they do in the process. The needs of the Navy come first, right?


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#22405 - 08/22/05 11:33 PM Re: PARANOIA and HOMOPHOBIC reactions
lostcowboy Offline
Member

Registered: 11/10/04
Posts: 797
Loc: North Texas
Hi Dewey, I am so sorry that all that happened to you! You are so right the needs of the navy come first! In 1992, congress gave the navy their marching papers. Start cutting up ships and start shit-canning sailors any way they could! The only good thing that came about in those last few months was the new baby chief we had just got in was someone that I had know, from when I was on the sub-tender. I would go down on his sub to help fix his computers, putting in very long days, so his sub could get to sea on time. Anyway, he let me see the message on the navy's VSI program, and while I did not meet the requirements, he recommended that I apply, as if the admen discharge went through, I would be out of the navy at 17 years with no retirement to show for it. For once the god's looked down with favor, and the navy approved my VSI discharge, before the paperwork for the admin discharge had gone anywhere.

_________________________
"Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend." - Albert Camus
Pretty much my life as I have posted so far. Triggers!

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#22406 - 08/22/05 11:41 PM Re: PARANOIA and HOMOPHOBIC reactions
Dewey2k Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 3069
Good for you. Glad to hear you got something out of it after spending so much time in.


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#22407 - 08/23/05 04:35 AM Re: PARANOIA and HOMOPHOBIC reactions
FLRich Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 1404
I used to be homophobic... for years in fact.

When I was forced to give oral sex from 8-12 yrs old, I didn't really think so much about homosexuals or heterosexuals. I just knew I didn't like it, nor the guys beating me up if I didn't give a good BJ. However as I grew older, I began to learn about homosexuals. Then I was confused because the guys messing with me, also began messing with girls, eventually leaving me alone. No qualms there! I tried to get on with my life and just pretend none of it ever happened although I was constantly afraid one of the guys would tell people at school I gave BJs. Of course now that I think back, they would have to be pretty damn stupid themselves to tell that, because that would mean they liked a guy messing with them, right?

Anyway, I really didn't know that many homosexuals to be honest. We never saw them around much. No one even talked about them. When I was molested and raped at 16, by my boss, I was convinced he must be homosexual. He must be gay (I to this day don't know if he was or not, nor do I give a damn)and so gays must cruise the streets and infiltrate businesses and society looking for young guys to rape. I hated them all. They actually scared the Hell out of me. I literally would almost vomit whenever I saw one openly gay. Even the little feminine ones scared me.

I didn't want them around me, and I really didn't care if they had rights or not. I didn't really care if they had feelings or not. All they wanted was young guys. In my mind they were as bad as a pack of wolves, always on the prowl.

I guess I was about 30 yrs old when my brother (my sole sibling) disclosed that he was gay. I couldn't believe it! In fact I totally igonored it as much as possible. BUt he wanted acceptance from me and would bring his partner over to my house. My oldest son was 2-3 at the time and I let him know that I did not want his partners around my kid. He said he understood and never brought another one around to my house, but God can you imagine the hurt I put on him? Talk about total non-acceptance. I was a total jackass. I was afraid of them! I was allowing my fears and hate to hurt and shun my brother. My wife tried talking to me, and gradually I could see that he was in love with this dude. He was with him for years! My parents accepted him and I felt like this was a slap in my face. I had never told them about any of my abuse because I didn't want to hurt THEM or make THEM think I was a bad son. Here they were embracing my brother who was living with the enemy! What the Hell?

My wife finally got me to talk to him and his partner at Christmas one year, and the guy was a Navy fighter pilot. A macho type. He was facinating! A 'normal' dude. He just happended to love my brother. I guess that's when I began to ease up some. I realized that this guy didn't want me and wasn't going to force himself on me. He loved my brother. He was good to my brother. I will say that I didn't allow my kids to ever stay over at my brother's house, not even for a minute. I guess I am still afraid, but I realize now through MS, and through my therapist, and some others, that what happend to me wasn't about sex. It was about power and control. That was the issue, not the homosexuality.

I have several homosexual friends, both males and females. I work with a few and I actually trust them more than I do the heterosexual coworkers. They seem to genuinely care more. I have never had a homosexual make a pass at me, that I can remember of off hand.

I act weird around people. I don't like anyone to touch me. I don't like anyone to walk up behind me without me knowing they are there. Never grab me. I don't like to be groped. I don't like hugging and I don't like kissing anyone but my wife, not even my Mom or mother-in-law. Some people at work think I am conceited and a snob. I am shy. Once they get to know me, they realize this. All of these reactions are made worse, though, if it is a male involved. Much worse. I will shake a dude's hand, but I don't like it. I will ALWAYS go to a restroom and wash "him" off of my hand. I absolutely hate the dudes that come up and grab me by a shoulder and chat with me. I will actually pull away from them before I even know it. Then the apologies begin, them for touching me, me for pulling away. I never tell them why. Very few people know about my abuse. For now, I like it that way.

So what am I? Paranoid or Homophobic? I think paranoid. I want to be better and treat others right, male and female, but I guess I have to admit that I have further to go in this area with guys than with women. Women are supposed to be silly and hug, guys aren't. I sure as hell don't want a silly guy hugging on me!!

After being here for over a year, I can honestly say that I love some of these guys. Like brothers or sons. Before I came here, I would never tell a guy I loved him, not even my father or brother. I still have trouble telling either of them that. I can tell my 18 yr old son that. I can tell a few guys at MS that I love them, but this is all new to me. I am beginning to accept my molestation for what it was, a power issue, not a sexual issue. I may not run up to a gay guy and give him a hug, nor will I allow him to hug me, but it isn't because he is gay. It isn't even because so much that he is a guy. It's because I don't like to be touched, male or female, but I am easing up. I can do the ((((_____))))) thing now for several months. Hey it's a step! And every once in a while, I just wish I could give some of the guys a real supportive hug and tell them everything will be OK. It will!

We are taught so much crap by American society, who we can touch or hug, who we can't. What we can say to another dude, what we better not say to another dude! This has a lot to do with homophobia in the USA. OF course so does religion. It is acceptable in the middle east for guys to hug, even kiss on the cheek, but a homosexual there will be killed! It's a shame we have let 'leaders' and people with power to dictate what we can and cannot do as humans. But then people with power are the reasons, for the most part, that any of us are here to begin with.

Maybe I'm not homophobic or paranoid, just mucked up. Sorry such a long reply.


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#22408 - 08/23/05 09:16 PM Re: PARANOIA and HOMOPHOBIC reactions
lostcowboy Offline
Member

Registered: 11/10/04
Posts: 797
Loc: North Texas
Hi Rich, its good to get all that out! Now that you have it in writing, you can look at it better, and think on it some more.

_________________________
"Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend." - Albert Camus
Pretty much my life as I have posted so far. Triggers!

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#22409 - 08/23/05 09:34 PM Re: PARANOIA and HOMOPHOBIC reactions
lostcowboy Offline
Member

Registered: 11/10/04
Posts: 797
Loc: North Texas
I posted this in the gay section, but wanted to have it on this thread to.
posted August 12, 2005 07:01 PM
Quote:
Well this sucks! I got to admit to you guys that I am not doing as good with my paranoia homophobic feelings as I thought I was doing. Not on here, but in real life. Here is what happened, My wife is filipino, one of her friends called on saturday, saying that she and a friend were bringing some food over. This friend had mentioned to me previously that she had a gay friend. So just as soon as he got out of the car, I was pretty sure this was the guy. Now they came over to visit my wife, normally when Filipinos get together they will switch to their own language and talk away. This time they stayed in English, and most of the conversation was between him and me, he was all interested in my immediate family. He also wanted to check out my computer, and offered me a monitor that he was not using any more.

To help you guys understand this, I haven't talked about this but my wife is about twenty eight years older than me, and I haven't had sex with her in about twelve years. Also about three weeks before this I had talked to my wife's friend about being molested as a kid. So this is where the paranoia homophobic feelings come in. I am thinking that she is trying to determine if I am gay, by having her friend check me out. Why she would want to do this I don't know but that is my feeling.
Quote:
I talked to her, very briefly this Sunday, she did say that was her gay friend. I did not have time to ask if there was anything behind it.

A thought, it may be that I had the reaction, just because he was a gay man that was a stranger. The reason I say that is I gathered up my courage today and called my old friend, and went out for coffee and had another long talk, still no alarms went off.


_________________________
"Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend." - Albert Camus
Pretty much my life as I have posted so far. Triggers!

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#22410 - 08/23/05 10:27 PM Re: PARANOIA and HOMOPHOBIC reactions
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Brothers,

I dont wish to blame anyone here for being homophobic. I think that in a place like this it is essential that everyone feel welcome to express their feelings and emotions about their past. I know that in my case I dreaded for years the possibiliity that what happened to me would make me a "queer". I think its great that heterosexual brothers feel that here they can come to terms with these fears about homosexuality, and I admire and respect our gay brothers for the way they accommodate and tolerate these discussions without taking them as a personal affront or threat. It just goes to show that a place like this really can work. I respect and admire you all for this.

But let us also be clear about the realities of what we are talking about. If I discover that my friend x is gay, that makes him no more a threat to me sexually (or any other way) than if I discover he has blue eyes. It really is just as simple as that. As a heterosexual I know I didnt choose this "lifestyle", if that is what it is. I just am who I am. By what right do I refuse the same consideration to my gay friends? By what right do we challenge gays to justify who they are and how they live? If I know that I am who I am and that's it, on what basis do I reject the right of gay brothers to be who they are, without reservation, question or justification?

The reasons are of course easy to find, but they are all part of the structures of macho straight hypocrisy that is so harmful to us as men in so many other ways. How many of us have been harmed for years by anxieties that as "real men" we should not cry or fear or feel weak or vulnerable? That is the same nonsense that leads us to run for cover and avoid getting to know a guy because "he's a fag". That is the great danger and evil of hypocrisy: it presents itself in the garb of righteous truth and urges us to accept it and remain blind to what it really is.

I myself didn't get past all this through any particular insight or wisdom of my own, that I want to stress in big capital letters. I was taught. I lived for a year with a great friend who was gay and coming out in a hostile world, and through exposure to his pain and hurt on a daily basis I came to see the great harm of the prejudices he faced.

I know there may be those of us who have fears of gays for whatever reasons relating to our past. And some may have doubts on religious grounds. Fine. But those are our issues, and it is our task to deal with them, not the job of our gay brothers. That is the one single message that I would like to pick out and highlight on this thread.

The simple truth is that none of us can claim the right to our own personality, dignity and individuality when that same right is denied to others. But as we all know, simple truths can quickly become very complicated. I am happy to see this particular truth being exposed for what is it and acknowledged in this thread.

Love to all,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#22411 - 09/02/06 07:14 AM Re: PARANOIA and HOMOPHOBIC reactions
lostcowboy Offline
Member

Registered: 11/10/04
Posts: 797
Loc: North Texas
Hi all, I am just bumping this up, I thought one of the new guys needed to read it.

But while it is up, the male of the SA couple, did embrace me. While I can't say it was great, I didn't have any screaming fits ether. So that may be called progress I suppose.

Take care,
Clifford

_________________________
"Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend." - Albert Camus
Pretty much my life as I have posted so far. Triggers!

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#22412 - 09/02/06 03:37 PM Re: PARANOIA and HOMOPHOBIC reactions
klab Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/30/06
Posts: 8
one of the things that really gets to me is the double standard i have in regards to other men. i never feel at home with a man present and GOD forbid he shoule touch me and the christian hug makes me freeze unable to move or breath. i have gotten to be able to shake hands and breath when hugged but heres the kicker, onece i can breath again (sooner and sooner) it is in this group i long to be with GODly men safe and secure
whats up with that?


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#22413 - 09/02/06 04:21 PM Re: PARANOIA and HOMOPHOBIC reactions
melliferal Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 1159
The nature of my abuse involved a homosexual element (I suppose you could say). Of course, there was no "heterosexuality/homosexuality" categorization in my brain at that point; there was just "sex stuff". Then I ended up in junior high, where gay (or an associated epithet) is just about the worst thing anybody can call you, and I was very concerned about myself. I would attempt to prove I was straight and "macho" - not to the other boys, of course, as their approval didn't make a difference to me - but to myself. I would do things that one wouldn't imagine a stereotypical "gay man" doing. I learned how to fix cars, I got into hunting for a while. I got myself hurt doing all manner of really stupid things. That sort of thing.

Eventually my brain solidified and I grew (kicking and screaming) out of that whole childish homophobia stage. I stiffen up and withdraw, given the chance, from hugs and other such contact, but from women just as much as men. I'm a hand shaker. \:\)

_________________________
Children cannot consent; they can only comply.

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