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#224056 - 05/13/08 12:33 PM .
bardo213 Offline
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Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 811
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Edited by bardo213 (06/21/13 04:37 PM)

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#224064 - 05/13/08 12:57 PM Re: What does it take be a man? [Re: bardo213]
JustScott Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 2577
Fantastic! Love it!

Ok, so here it goes:

I'll start with what I'm not and how I feel those concepts and ideas don't really define manhood.

I'm not big and tough. I'm not macho. I'm not athletic. I don't follow sports with any regularity. I'm not a handyman, I don't get into cars and mechanics. I'm not big into hunting (although I do have a rifle and have been hunting a few times). Those things, while typically used to define a man, I think are things that men get into due to mindset and thought process and what not, but don't "make" you a man. I think it's more a case of, you are a man, so you "may" be into those things. Course I know a large number of women into those things and know just about as many who do them even better than most men I know.

Here's what I am. I'm quiet. Typically gentle. Sensitive. Emotional. Caring. Compassionate. I love music. I love just enjoying nature. I love beauty, and I'm meaning nature kind of beauty, although I see more than a little beauty in the human form, both male and female. I love reading. I love feeling close to people, even though it scares me to death sometimes.

I think, all things aside, I'm a good man. Hard for me to say, but I think it's the truth of it. I think one of the biggest things I've learned, is that a man can love. I mean really love, not the sexual kind of love mind you, but one of genuine compassion for fellow humans. I don't think being sexual makes you a man anymore than being sexual makes a woman, a woman. I think humans are sexual, regardless of gender.

I think men carry a certain strength within them. Women can be strong as well, but I think this is something different. Something that is truly male. The power to keep going despite fears, yet it goes beyond that. I'm not sure it's truly possible to put into words.

What do I love about myself? I love my feelings. I love being able to feel. Even in those deep dark places, I can still feel my emotions, and although it hurts at times, it still has a good feeling to it. Like that need to have a good cry now and again. You cry because you're hurting, yet at the same time, it feels good to get it out, to have that release. I love my gentle nature, yet when I'm angry, look out, I could break something! I love that too, because that same anger doesn't have to be destructive. Properly channeled it can drive me to great things. To protect others. To improve myself. To accomplish something that I just don't have the motivation to do any other time.

Right now I can definitely say, without fears and doubts in my mind, that right now, I like me.


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#224067 - 05/13/08 01:07 PM . [Re: JustScott]
bardo213 Offline
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Registered: 11/21/07
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Edited by bardo213 (06/21/13 04:37 PM)

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#224078 - 05/13/08 03:06 PM Re: What does it take be a man? [Re: bardo213]
VLinvictus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/05/07
Posts: 273
Loc: NY
This is a good and thought provoking question.

My initial, flippant answer as to what it takes to be a man is "A Y-chromosome."

I have a lot of opinions about what it takes to be a human, but I have a extremely hard time conceiving that "being a man" means anything more than having a penis and testicles and possessing on average a stronger upper body, more body hair, and a deeper voice than human beings possessing two X-chromosomes (AKA "women").

Perhaps it's my distaste of imposed gender roles. I believe every human being has the right to become whoever he or she wants to be and live his or her life as he or she chooses. I think each human being has the right to be the kind of person he or she wants to be, without having to be bound by some artificial social conceptions of what being a "man" or a "woman" mean.

There's the basic physical differences. As a man, I will never give birth but I will also never menstruate. But beyond that, I don't believe male and female human beings are all that different and I don't think anyone should have gender roles and expectations imposed upon him or her.

The possibly more problematic aspect for me is that the words "being a man" and "manly" and "manliness" have an inseparable sexual connection in my mind. I enjoy having a penis and I'm glad that I do not have a vagina. I enjoy being ready for sex at a moment's notice and I being the pentrating partner in sexual intercourse. "Being a man" conjures up for me ideas of virility, power, force, even domination -- and that scares me just a bit.

This needs more thought.

_________________________
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
~ Oscar Wilde

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#224085 - 05/13/08 03:49 PM Re: What does it take be a man? [Re: VLinvictus]
mogigo Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 1331
Loc: Colorado
Being a man?, good question considering the questions of my past.

I'm atheletic, I can do very well in sport related activities. I'm big and have a strong take charge attitude in times of emergency. I work as a tradesman and have many scars and broken....pieces. I love watching (some) sports and really get a kick out of the UFC. I love action movies and AAAAArnold lol. I'm competitive in the right forum. I guess you could say if you met me I could come across as a mans man.

Is this what I think a man is?, not on you're life.

I also raise a daughter on my own. I cry at sappy sad song's. I love heartfelt movies and poetry. I draw pictures with conational emotions. I give hugs to guys. I fall in love with guys. I'm sensitive beyond belief. I absolutely am in utter joy from the flowers I recieved yesterday. I'm beside myself that I can offer some comfort to other people who are hurting. I'm astounded that my sensitivity is accepted amonst men.

I'm not ashamed of either of my trait's, I believe this makes me a whole man. I see nothing wrong with one or the other. There is nothing wrong with being an athelete who competes and being a lover who cries. That makes me a whole person. A whole man.

It's nice to have this outlook now, I spent far too long thinking I had to choose one or the other. Choosing meant giving up a part of me. Now I can just be me. Such a wonderful thing.

Being a man to me means being strong enough to tell all the other "half" men to go fuck themselves \:\)

I enjoy what I enjoy and I love who I love

Stay strong
Mike

_________________________
Thriving

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#224091 - 05/13/08 04:28 PM Re: What does it take be a man? [Re: mogigo]
JustScott Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 2577
Ya know, maybe what being a man is: "just being me".

Be who you are. If your sappy and emotional, you're a man.
If your rough, tough, and tumble, you're a man.

Just be you. Maybe that's what being a man is. Just you.


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#224093 - 05/13/08 04:32 PM Re: What does it take be a man? [Re: VLinvictus]
MemoryVault Offline
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Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 693
Loc: NJ
What does it take to be a man?

Funny how we treat manhood as an achievement. If you're male, but haven't earned your stripes, been approved by the village elders, or whatever, then you're...what?

I was probably about 5 when I told my parents I wished I'd been a girl. It had nothing to do with my body--I was perfectly happy with the plumbing arrangements...I just didn't want to have to keep going outside and doing sports while the girls got to stay in and talk and do smart stuff.

I guess it was around then that a kid told me that a "fag" was a boy who acted like a girl. (I don't know if he told me that a girl who acted like a boy was a "gaf" or if that was my own idea.) But I figured that was who I was...it just seemed like a de>

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#224094 - 05/13/08 04:36 PM Re: What does it take be a man? [Re: MemoryVault]
MarkK Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
The question I see asked a few times in various words is:

Is there a difference between being a man and being male?

I just wish I had an answer.

I guess to me, right now, it's more important to find out how to be an "adult" (whatever the heck THAT is). But I think if you can find that place where you are doing the best you can to be the best person you can - and you're male - then you're a man.

Maybe then my answer is: You're a man when you're no longer just a boy... (I pray I never completely stop being a boy)

M


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#224099 - 05/13/08 05:49 PM Re: What does it take be a man? [Re: MarkK]
frost Offline
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Registered: 03/15/07
Posts: 1377
Loc: Eh?
i don't want to come off sounding terribly crass or anything but...

the answer is between our legs. all else is subjective...

that really is all it takes.

~Brian

_________________________
Boom!

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#224100 - 05/13/08 05:58 PM . [Re: MarkK]
bardo213 Offline
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Edited by bardo213 (06/21/13 04:38 PM)

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#224131 - 05/14/08 12:03 AM Re: What does it take be a man? [Re: bardo213]
VLinvictus Offline
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Registered: 12/05/07
Posts: 273
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: frost
i don't want to come off sounding terribly crass or anything but...

the answer is between our legs. all else is subjective...

that really is all it takes.

~Brian


I've been giving this some more thought and I've concluded that my initial reaction -- and Brian's above -- is correct.

There is nothing more to "being a man" than having the right set of chromosomes and genitals.

All this other stuff -- competitiveness, constriction of emotion, protecting and caring for others, physicality and athleticism, etc. -- is nothing more than cultural baggage imposed on us by society and the media.

Take David's rhetorical questions:
Originally Posted By: MemoryVault

So, are you a man or a woman? (Where do your personal traits fall in with the gender grid your culture has mapped out for you?)
Are you a man or a boy? (Have you passed the threshhold of adulthood? When was it? How do you know?)
Are you a man or a god? (Do you recognize your own limitations? Do you know what it is to be "only human" for real?)
Are you a man or a machine? (Do you allow yourself to feel? Does your heart guide you as much as your head or your testosterone?)
Are you a man or a stereotype of a man?(How much of all this is real and how much are you acting? What have you freely chosen?)


The first and last are culturally conditioned. The second refers to maturity. The remaining two apply to "man" in the collective, species sense -- homo/anthropos as opposed to vir/aner.

I do not know what "being a man" means -- I think that's something each person and culture defines for themselves. I think it's much more important to be human and to be an adult.

Dan

_________________________
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
~ Oscar Wilde

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#224151 - 05/14/08 07:42 AM Re: What does it take be a man? [Re: bardo213]
Ridley Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/11/08
Posts: 3
Loc: USA - IL
My thought on this is this; being victimized by the perp and then labeled a CSA survivor the question I've struggled with to no avail is not being straight or gay but on top of everything else the CSA robbed from my life, I feel that my right to choose whether I'm straight or gay is all rolled up in the CSA.

Since I was told for so long that it was my fault and my body reacted to the stimulation and became aroused to ejaculation, the perp was right! It had to be my fault and if it's my fault I must attract and be attracted to men and not women which must mean I'm gay?

That's is my hot button. So at the end of the day, to be or not to be straight or gay was a choice not of my making, but beaten into me by the perp. Didn't he steal enough from me by labeling myself CSA, but also "MY CHOICE" to be straight or gay.

I know I'm straight because of my attraction for my wife, but the need to be held tightly by a man for more then sex and be reassured that everything will be okay is what I long for as a man. That is the part of this CSA journey yet to be fulfilled but hungered for.

Spencer


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#224158 - 05/14/08 08:18 AM Re: What does it take be a man? [Re: Ridley]
JustScott Offline
Greeter Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 2577
Originally Posted By: Ridley
but the need to be held tightly by a man for more then sex and be reassured that everything will be okay is what I long for as a man. That is the part of this CSA journey yet to be fulfilled but hungered for.

Spencer


More than a few guys here I think can relate to that one, Including myself.


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#224161 - 05/14/08 08:39 AM Re: What does it take be a man? [Re: VLinvictus]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 1987
Loc: durham, north england
I fully agree with dan on this one, in fact it's a subject I've studdied quite a lot and intend to write on when i can muster the energy, ---- I've also met a lot of feminists, ----- both sane and sensible ones, and completely evil ones (I'd considder myself a feminist, ---- or at least an equalitarian, hopefully of the sensible sort).

i'd agree with Dan and robbert, being male or female is anatomical, nothing more. Anything extra is stuck on by cultural sterriotypes. While those sterriotypes are pretty strong, ---- often so pervasive we don't even notice them.

I'd personally say both sterriotypical views, the masculine and feminine are pretty bad. Afterall the feminine, ---- as lots of people say, promotes shallowness, dependence, lack of thought about life, superficiality and lack of resilience.

the masculine on the other hand promotes lack of immotionality, over emphasis on competing for it's own sake or physicality, insensativity, lack of compassion or empathy and in fact it's own form of shallowness.

to explain the shallowness thing, when I first got to uni, in a discussion with one chap, I mentioned I disliked the taste of beer. his reply was "well drink 20 pints and then you'll like it" when I asked him why I should bother drinking 20 pints of something I disliked, he responded with "well cos your a man"

Shallow!

Myself I'd agree with Dan and several others that we should concentrate on being good humans, people, individuals or whatever (pick your generality).

On a personal level, I actually considder myself to be androginus. Yes, i am male, but in the same way that I'm five foot nine or have dark hair, ---- it's just one fact about me, and not an overly important one. About the most relevance it has is that I sing tenor not soprano, ---- which is good sinse there are a lot fewer tenors than sopranoss. Yes, i am attracted to girls, ----- but I kno several girls who are as well.

If I was to pick a sterriotype I feel closer to, I'd have to say it was the feminine. I'm fairly immotional, --- as people will have gathered I also talk, ---- or write, quite a lot.

I love taking care of people, ---- not just in the imotional sense, but in a practical and physical way as well, cooking, making drinks etc.

I'm very much struck by the beauty of things, --- and I do cry.

I also become close to people and am fairly sensative.

I have no competative side whatsoever, and genuinely don't mind losing a game or race or quiz or whatever to another person so long as I've enjoyed myself doing it.

I love decorating my flat, and also like wearing cologne and aftershave and interesting clothes, not expressly to be attractive (that's one thing I'm not), but just for the sake of wearing them, ---- another reason i enjoy musical theatre.

I'd much rather do something creative like writing, music or philosophy than something purely analytical, and I really don't care about "being successfull"

I also love animals, and was given my own puppy when I was 14, ---- one reason i didn't commit suicide during my abuse.

Abuse wise, I'm also very frightened of anything to do with the S word, and for me, the idea of that without love is one that makes me physically sick.

On the other hand, I enjoy physical exercise for it's own sake (I try to lift weights and run several times a week), ditto with interlectual exercise such as resource management games or chess. I'm not bad at abstract maths and enjoy learning metaphysics.

though I do not enjoy competative sports like football, much less spectator sports, I do enjoy things like skeeing, climbing, canooing or cycling, ---- though much more for the experience of doing them than to compete against others.

also, though I have a great love of animals, ---- and am actually quite comfortable with babies and children under one, i really don't want kids, and can't deal with them as soon as they start walking and get beyond the physical care stage.

I'm also very jealous about independence,---- sometimes too much so, and though I love helping others, really dislike accepting help.

some of these are obviously things I like about myself, ---- some are things I want to change, but I'd rather not go down the path of one sterriotype or the other.

Interestingly enough, one of my really close friends is the other way around, ---- she's female, yet has many sterriotypically masculine traits, --- competativeness, desire never to appear weak or show immotion, aggression, ---- heck she's even studdying higher maths! On the other hand she's highly compassionate and sensative, ---- and is one of the people I've talked to fully about my abuse (she holds the same idea of genda sterriotypes as I do).

the only thing that really! hacks me off about being male is the stupid and annoying cultural expectation that it's the man who's supposed to make the first move with someone I like. this one drives me absolutely up the wall!

I'm really sorry for the long and rambling wrant, ---- this is a subject I tend to considder quite a lot, and actually intend to write on it one day.


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#224190 - 05/14/08 10:43 AM Re: What does it take be a man? [Re: bardo213]
hogan_dawg Offline
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Registered: 03/26/08
Posts: 492
A great man in my life gave me, through a refusal to lead me by the nose and tell me what to think, the gift of learning I could think what I freely chose to think. And therefore, I think, he inadvertently taught me to be what I freely choose to be.



Edited by hogan_dawg (05/14/08 10:53 AM)
_________________________
I can say unequivocally that the lie of "To truly heal you must first forgive" has derailed more victims than the abusers themselves.
Andrew Vachs, 2003

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#224191 - 05/14/08 10:53 AM Re: What does it take be a man? [Re: hogan_dawg]
JustScott Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 2577
DA, just want to say that I read your de>

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#224200 - 05/14/08 11:54 AM Re: What does it take be a man? [Re: JustScott]
dannym Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/24/07
Posts: 543
Loc: Boulder, Colorado
This is a question I have asked myself since I was very young. I am not a "typical male". I do not like to watch sports. I do like to play sports - I am a triathlete and mountain trail runner. I lift weights and play racquetball. I golf (ok, I go to a golf course with clubs... but what I do cannot truly be called golf \:\) )

I cry at movies. I talk to my friends for hours about "feelings" and emotions. I like plays. I like to sing. I am a wicked good cook.

I am married to a woman. I am in love with a man. I have 2 beauriful kids. I laugh at jokes. I get scared of dying. I try to focus on living. I try to eat right. I'm a recovering alcoholic. I was sexually abused as a boy and young man. When I cut myself, I bleed. I work hard.

I am Dan - and that is enough - I am happy with me.

_________________________
"You should listen to your heart, and not the voices in your head."

Marge Simpson

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#224237 - 05/14/08 04:13 PM Re: What does it take be a man? [Re: bardo213]
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
What makes a man to me, is just being who you were born to be, and using your past to your advantage.
One of the greatest men to be on the boards asked the same question?

I said to him, that nobody could make a greater man than he already was, empathic, truthful, good listener, never used violent language, helped others, and he was totally humble.

I learned a lot from him, and so did a lot of others,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#224407 - 05/15/08 01:13 PM Re: What does it take be a man? [Re: reality2k4]
ineffable Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/08
Posts: 1371
Loc: state of holeecrapdood
Hey men
I have been giving this one some thought

Anatomy is half of it
But then we have to extend this definition to male abusers too don't we
(looks over his shoulder for tar & feathering mob on the horizon)

To me the other half of being a man is the willingness to give your life
To take a bullet for those we care about
Ain't that what we are doing here sometimes?

My family at MS grows daily

C




_________________________
:: "Anyone who can handle a needle convincingly can make us see a thread which is not there" ::


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#224413 - 05/15/08 01:38 PM Re: What does it take be a man? [Re: ineffable]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 1987
Loc: durham, north england
As far as abusers go,k I stil hold to the three words I screamed at the age of 14. I don't feel the need to scream them now, but I'll write them and mean them:

those! aren't! people!


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#224417 - 05/15/08 02:04 PM Re: What does it take be a man? [Re: bardo213]
Calanthe Offline
New Here

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 109
Loc: California
Interesting question and though it has been said by others in different ways here is what think I a man is.

A man is what you are.

Your actions are what tell others what kind of man you are.

A simple point on having the right equipment between your legs, I agree with it as far as it goes…But I must simply state I know men who do not have the standard issue between theirs legs and women who can pass as men from the waist or neck down…so see my first point. (and gee I love living in such a versatile and uncertain world)

In answer to one of the other questions asked by Lynch what makes you happy? I am going to narrow it down that what makes me happy about being a man?

Here goes…That I don’t have to sit down to take a piss …nuff said ….lol

Enjoy,

Scott

_________________________
You can't save your Ass and your Face at the same time. (Anonymous)

And given the choice I will save my ass first everytime(STC)

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#224451 - 05/15/08 07:29 PM . [Re: Calanthe]
bardo213 Offline
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Edited by bardo213 (06/21/13 04:39 PM)

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#224482 - 05/15/08 10:58 PM Re: What does it take be a man? [Re: bardo213]
istrong Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 79
Loc: CT
Ok let me take a shot at it;
I should have learned through experience not to trust peopel.
*I trust anyways
I should have learned not to love or feel anymore.
*I still do with reckless abandon
I should have learned that the world is a dark and scary place.
*I stay optomistic every freakin day!
I should be mean because nice guys finish last.
*I'm nice anyways
I should have learned how to be a good little boy and be normal.
*BUT I've been forced to do to many things and I'm going to live life my own damn way!


So I guess Lynch, I'm the man I am today becasue of the things I didnt learn, or refused to learn.

_________________________
"Go then, there are other worlds than these"
-John 'Jake' Chambers

I'd rather be above the grass than below it.

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#224499 - 05/16/08 12:25 AM Re: What does it take be a man? [Re: istrong]
mogigo Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 1331
Loc: Colorado
Quote:
I should be mean because nice guys finish last.
*I'm nice anyways


ahhh. but we ARE going to inherit the earth \:\)

That'll be cool

Stay strong
Mike

_________________________
Thriving

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#224722 - 05/17/08 12:34 PM . [Re: mogigo]
bardo213 Offline
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Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 811
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Edited by bardo213 (06/21/13 04:39 PM)

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#230284 - 06/11/08 07:48 AM Re: What does it take be a man? [Re: bardo213]
Sans Logos Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
very thought provoking question. it's the kind of question that invites people to look in the mirror of their souls and come up with more questions than answers.

'manliness' is a romanticized cultural ideal imposed on us from the day we are born. for me, being born at the point time that i was, i came to believe 'real' men naturally prefer blue, is heterosexually oriented, aspire to be jocks, have an urge to make war, is hairy and sweaty, is valued for his large genital equipment, has lots of testosterone, excels in sports, is superhuman; he embodies all the characteristics of gi joe, the marlboro man and ward cleaver. lest we forget, he is also trustworthy, loyal, helpful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent. get the picture????

boy, i spent a lot of my life berating myself for not being able to measure down to that standard.

nowadays, having unburied myself from all that madness, i have come to allow myself a new model for aspiration: that a 'man' is a multi-dimensional person who has learned to transcend his own once accepted culturally imposed value system. in its place he has created another system within that functions to maintain balance between all of the dichotomies that he is challenged to juggle as he comes to terms with the process of becoming a fully human being living in a world of stereotypical expectations.

he humbly accepts his own limitations, and sees himself not so much as self made, but as part of a whole; his voice is 'not a monologue, but rather a chorus' of all those who contributed to shaping his spirit. he is free to utilize the talent resources he has been gifted with, cultivate them and express them and shares them freely.

peace to all,

ron

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


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#230300 - 06/11/08 09:50 AM Re: What does it take be a man? [Re: bardo213]
JasonSmalls Offline
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Registered: 12/01/07
Posts: 142
Loc: NJ
I think the simple answer is a penis and testicles. lol

But seriously, I'm not really sure what a man is supposed to be. I've been told by people, usually assholes, that "I act too gay," and that I should be "more manly." I think this is so ridiculous. I have no intention to act at all or to be somebody I'm not. "I'd rather let my flame burn bright than be some puny little pilot light!" Emmit Honeycutt QAF


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#230301 - 06/11/08 09:53 AM Re: What does it take be a man? [Re: JasonSmalls]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Originally Posted By: JasonSmalls
I've been told by people, usually assholes, that "I act too gay," and that I should be "more manly." I think this is so ridiculous. I have no intention to act at all or to be somebody I'm not. "I'd rather let my flame burn bright than be some puny little pilot light!" Emmit Honeycutt QAF

You are so right. People who expect you to conform to their own vision of manhood are assholes indeed, and you know what, there is no pleasing them anyway. So why bother to try?

Just be yourself always. Flame on!

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#230305 - 06/11/08 10:15 AM Re: What does it take be a man? [Re: roadrunner]
dannym Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/24/07
Posts: 543
Loc: Boulder, Colorado
Hey Jason. I'm just in the process of coming out. A well meaning therapist - the first person I said the words "I'm gay" to, said... "Well, the earring is suggestive, but you don't really have gay speech". I was insulted... I am not Gay Dan... I am Dan... a person, and I happen to be gay. I am also a friend, a father, an athlete, a reader, a movie watcher... I am me... and I am starting to realize that "me" is great!

You be yourself - People who worry about how YOU act have thier own issues and, as Larry says, will never be pleased - they want you to validate who THEY are - or who they want to be - to hell with them.

Jason=Just right!

Dan

_________________________
"You should listen to your heart, and not the voices in your head."

Marge Simpson

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#230309 - 06/11/08 10:26 AM Re: What does it take be a man? [Re: dannym]
JasonSmalls Offline
Guest

Registered: 12/01/07
Posts: 142
Loc: NJ
Dan,

The next time you see your therapist and he/she asks how you are, say loudly that you are FANTABULOUS! Than there won't be any suspicion of your sexuality. lol

Joey


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#230497 - 06/12/08 02:10 AM Re: What does it take be a man? [Re: JasonSmalls]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 1987
Loc: durham, north england
I have no idea why people confuse being camp and being gay, it just seems like the standard gender sterriotypes to me.

I have one friend, who dresses in very bright clothes, has long hair, and actually walks around calling everyone "my dear" and often saying how beautiful people aree.

Heck, he's even a counter tenor and thus sinse in falsetto.

However, he is most deffinately not gay, for all that many people seem to assume he is.

while doing my degree, I knew a chap who was in to logic and crytical thought, was imotionally distant, had incredibly short hair and was on the colidge rowing team. After knowing him for 18 months it turned out he was gay, and I only found out from a mutual friend.

the hole thing seems incredibly bizarre.


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