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#223339 - 05/08/08 10:56 PM Re: Suicide and Abuse Victims' Brains [Re: Freedom49]
EGL Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 7819
Hmmm, so that explains my problems. I guess I had a low-licking mother. \:\)

Seriously, though, it's a very interesting article. A thought (fear) that came to mind is what insurance companies could do with this type of information if they do eventually develope a blood test that could detect these genetic changes. The insurance company could say "Ah, you were abused so are a higher risk for suicide. Sorry, no policy for you."

_________________________
Eddie

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#223529 - 05/10/08 05:24 AM Re: Suicide and Abuse Victims' Brains [Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Originally Posted By: Ken Singer, LCSW
He said female rats reared by low-licking mothers reached puberty earlier, meaning they had more offspring.

The mind boggles. \:D I definitely need to get back into therapy (as if any proof were needed).

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#223530 - 05/10/08 05:27 AM Re: Suicide and Abuse Victims' Brains [Re: roadrunner]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Ken,

Seriously speaking, should such a study be taken as demonstrative. 18 subjects? Isn't that an absurdly low sample? And 18 subjects from what backgrounds?

Much wondering,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#223531 - 05/10/08 05:31 AM Re: Suicide and Abuse Victims' Brains [Re: EGL]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Eddie,

Originally Posted By: EGL
Hmmm, so that explains my problems. I guess I had a low-licking mother. \:\)

Or not enough time on the wheel.

Or too much time on the wheel!

Or no one shared their cheese.

Or a close call with a trap.

Or others have faster times through the maze.

Much support, \:D
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#223553 - 05/10/08 11:01 AM Re: Suicide and Abuse Victims' Brains [Re: roadrunner]
EGL Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 7819
Or tail envy.

Or a mice-inferiority complex.

Or still carrying the shame of the plague.

The list goes on and on.

_________________________
Eddie

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#223737 - 05/11/08 04:45 PM Re: Suicide and Abuse Victims' Brains [Re: EGL]
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5773
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
I think 18 subjects is a little bit better than chance or opinion but this is just for some interesting discussion. The field is moving towards the inpact of abuse on the brain and that seems to be the trend for now. I think it makes a lot of sense, considering the trainings I've seen and articles I've read.

In other words, stay tuned.


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#223742 - 05/11/08 05:10 PM Re: Suicide and Abuse Victims' Brains [Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
EGL Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 7819
Hi Ken,

I wonder if you think this will further stigmatize survivors in that it seems this kind of research may have the effect of making survivors feel like "Hey, there really IS something wrong with me. I really AM damaged goods." We do so much about telling me that they can recover from CSA, but then it makes me wonder if this kind of research will be planting doubts in their minds about it? I don't know, I feel kind of conflicted about this, but as some said above, may be all for naught anyway. In your practice with survivors, do they seem to feel like they are beyond repair?

_________________________
Eddie

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#223787 - 05/11/08 09:52 PM Re: Suicide and Abuse Victims' Brains [Re: EGL]
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5773
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
I guess some can look at the brain research and say "I am screwed up and there is nothing I can do". However, I think that if the bad news is that one's brain is damaged by abuse, we can also look at the brain research to find out what does work to change the damage.

For example, research shows that EMDR can change the patterns that trauma has caused in brains of trauma victims. While that does not mean that all trauma sufferers should do EMDR, it says that the damage that trauma caused can be changed.

I think the assumtption that some people make that they are damaged goods or somehow hurt beyond any repair is not a good way to look at this kind of research. This is a new science and it may likely be modified over the next 3-10 years so that what we believe to be true today is not necessarily the "truth" a few years down the road.

We need to be open to this information and not get hopeless because today's news is not so good because tomorrow the possibilities may be very different.

I guess the bottom line is "don't give up".


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#223817 - 05/12/08 04:21 AM Re: Suicide and Abuse Victims' Brains [Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
The bottom line is, that if you are abused, shut the f*ck up, and don't tell anybody.
You will find yourself stigmatized and discriminated against.
Then I forgot the patronization of some, or all.

It's weird science when they use small sample data, and not all suicides are linked to abuse anyhow.
If, at any time, we are told that our bodies' are our own, and the taboo is taken away, then maybe we can move forward.

I cannot see that happening in my life span,

ste

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Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#223823 - 05/12/08 04:47 AM Re: Suicide and Abuse Victims' Brains [Re: reality2k4]
alexey Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 1674
Loc: Moscow, Russia
Speaking about the design of this research:

The sample was taken for the purpose of investigating abuse survivor brains. There are lots of suicide victims, but the researches were interested in ony those who suffered childhood abuse.

If you think about this research, it becomes clear that is was not an easy project to accomplish. The researchers needed to trace the victims history and take the survivors only, and given the fact that in ALL of the brains the changes were found, we can also speak about the validity of the results.

Alexey

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