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#221011 - 04/28/08 05:36 AM If..............
dking777 Offline
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.............Jesus came back tomorrow?





Edited by dking777 (10/25/09 01:00 AM)
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#221016 - 04/28/08 06:48 AM Re: If.............. [Re: dking777]
roadrunner Offline
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Dave,

Actually, if he showed up tomorrow I think I would greet him with hope. Or I hope I would. I would tell him I did my best, but that spiritually I had been so utterly devastated as a boy that many things that others would perhaps take for granted just floated by me unseen.

Having been through hell already I would meet him unafraid. I would say I think I'm a spiritual person and I hope that now we could talk about things. I would say I don't have any challenges; I just want my faith back.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
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#221454 - 04/29/08 02:44 PM Re: If.............. [Re: roadrunner]
blueshift Offline
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I never like questions that limit my answers when other answers are possible, nor do I think a question is seriously asked when I have reason to believe there is only one answer that would be deemed acceptable.

yikes! Got distracted in a rush to catch a bus and didn't realize when I posted this that I hadn't finished it. Anyway, I guess all I wanted to add was that I didn't mean for this reply to sound like I'm being hostile. I have no feelings at all about it other than it's being a slightly rigged question.

Thinking on it again though, I suppose I owe you the respect of some sort of answer, since I did, after all reply. It would depend on which Jesus it turns out to be...the one who taught "love thy neighbor" or the one who's Dad teaches people not to hurt people by hurting people...for ever and ever. If it's the cool one, then maybe gratitude, if it's the other one, definitely hatred..(unless he hates his Dad for it too.)



Edited by blueshift (04/30/08 12:02 AM)
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#221509 - 04/29/08 05:25 PM Re: If.............. [Re: blueshift]
AndyJB2005 Offline
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I guess for me, the bigger question would be how would he come to me? With gratitude or hate?

If he's anything like the vocal minority of his followers, I would say hate. If he was like I imagine, I'd guess he'd come to me with gratitude for not bastardizing his words. *shrug*

I suppose I would go off that as to how I would come to him.

I'm not sure what I would be sorrowful for however.



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Life's disappointments are harder to take when you don't know any swear words. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)

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#221516 - 04/29/08 06:17 PM Re: If.............. [Re: dking777]
pufferfish Offline
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I'm convinced that Jesus cares for the broken

and the lowly, and those who mourn

and the orphans (including psychological orphans)

and the hurting, and the abused.

He'll be tough on the abusers, the confident, the proud,

those who have their act "together" but hurt others.

(pufferfish felt he should edit this because he said he was humble - but if he said so he wasn't humble anymore was he?)

Also, in explanation, the reason this is an answer to dKing's question is that we don't know directly how we would respond if Jesus returned immediately. Jesus gave the sermon on the mount which talks about mourning, etc (happy are those that mourn) because our response to those statements indicates our response to the bigger question



Edited by pufferfish (04/30/08 02:20 PM)

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#221529 - 04/29/08 07:02 PM Re: If.............. [Re: pufferfish]
EGL Offline
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Good question, DKing. I guess I would express gratitude for what I was allowed to do here in my short time on this planet. And would be sorrowful for not having been able to do more.

Thanks for asking,
Eddie

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#221613 - 04/29/08 11:50 PM Re: If.............. [Re: EGL]
VLinvictus Offline
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Eep. If Jesus appeared tomorrow, I somehow suspect I'd be in the SOL camp on the left-hand side -- you know, for the whole not believing he was the messiah and all.

As I'm bundled off to the lake of fire I guess I'd just say "You know, you could have made it just a wee bit clearer which was the one true faith."

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#221618 - 04/30/08 12:03 AM Re: If.............. [Re: VLinvictus]
blueshift Offline
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lol^

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#221645 - 04/30/08 08:16 AM Re: If.............. [Re: blueshift]
FormerTexan Offline
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VLinvictus,

So what I'm hearing you say is that you bear no responsibility to figure it out, that someone else has to do it for you?

There's many of us who lay no claim to being bible scholars, but we ARE TRYING to figure it out, and learn. Even in Acts chapter 8, the eunuch said basically "how can I know unless someone teaches me?"

Can one account for the multitude of faiths in the world? I have my theories which I will reserve for a different day. Meanwhile, please do not label Jesus as a deceiver. Thank you.

Andy





Edited by FormerTexan (04/30/08 08:44 AM)
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#221660 - 04/30/08 09:34 AM Re: If.............. [Re: FormerTexan]
AndyJB2005 Offline
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I don't think it was Jesus who was unclear about the faith, I think it was some of the leaders of his church that mixed it all up and put their fingers in it for their own gain... *shrug*

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#221668 - 04/30/08 10:08 AM Re: If.............. [Re: AndyJB2005]
VLinvictus Offline
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FormerTexan,

I apologize if you think I labeled Jesus as a deceiver. I did not mean to do so: I have no interest in disrespecting another person's faith.

I don't think "deceiver" is the proper term, either. It would only be deception if the actual one true faith were Christianity but Jesus made it obviously and unmistakeably clear to the world at large from time to time that, say, Zoroastrianism is the correct choice.

Oh, I believe we all have a responsibility to figure out things for ourselves. There are a lot of religions out there, and within each major group there are numerous sub-divisions that believe different things. How is one to tell which one is right? All religions have pretty much the same amount of evidence to support them -- while some have more evidence agains them than others (like a certain "church" founded by a bad science fiction writer that shall remain nameless).

So, a person should go out and study as broadly as he can and decide which system, if any, makes the most sense and resonates most closely with his conscience and spirit. That's what I have done and I'm happy with my religion -- but I admit that it's essentially a crap-shoot.

Unless, of course, the Calvinists are right and those who are to be saved have been predestined from all eternity and naturally choose the correct religion automatically?

Oh well. If I weren't already Jewish I'd probably be a Buddhist.

Sorry again if I offended. I probably shouldn't have responded to this thread at all, but I was in a weird mood yesterday.

\:\(

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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
~ Oscar Wilde

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#221777 - 04/30/08 07:16 PM Re: If.............. [Re: VLinvictus]
FormerTexan Offline
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VLinvictus,

I was thinking off and on today that I could have put my response in better terms, and I apologize for being so direct. If it's one thing I will admit to is that I on occasion project previous experiences into current issues, and it leaves me feeling more like I was a battering ram than one who admonished or edified another.

Yes, I do ask for respect towards others of faith, for we are all here for recovery purposes. I will attempt in the future to not make my point with such heavy tone.

Andy




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1. That


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#221852 - 05/01/08 04:41 AM Re: If.............. [Re: blueshift]
dking777 Offline
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Originally Posted By: blueshift
Thinking on it again though, I suppose I owe you the respect of some sort of answer, since I did, after all reply. It would depend on which Jesus it turns out to be...the one who taught "love thy neighbor" or the one who's Dad teaches people not to hurt people by hurting people...for ever and ever. If it's the cool one, then maybe gratitude, if it's the other one, definitely hatred..(unless he hates his Dad for it too.)


Hey,
I understand this repsonse perfectly.



Edited by dking777 (10/25/09 12:37 AM)
_________________________
And may you be in heaven
half an hour before the devil knows you're dead.

Bittersweet Symphony

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#221926 - 05/01/08 11:36 AM Re: If.............. [Re: dking777]
VLinvictus Offline
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Originally Posted By: dking777

Hated him so much they conspired to get him killed - and in the process people showed up to pelt him, slap him, mock him and ridicule him. Wasn't much love being shown to him in that final walk.


There are a lot of theological interpretations of the Gospel stories, but the straight surface situation seems to be that the Judean upper classes and the religious elite who collaborated with the Roman occupation considered him a rabble-rousing threat to their own power and the precarious house-of-cards relationship they had with Rome. I think Jesus Christ Superstar actually conveys this very well.

Quote:
The problem (from my study was,) people were expecting something other than what they got. From what I understand they were looking for a Messiah and were expecting a "war hero" type of fellow. They weren't expecting a pauper talking about love thy enemy.


The various messianic prophecies in Isaiah, Zechariah, Ezekiel, etc. are -- like all prophecy I guess -- not that easy to interpret. Essentially, though, the Messianic hope was for a restoration of the "golden age" of the independent sovereigh Jewish kingdom under David and Solomon. Since Judea had been ruled by the greatest empires of the world since thr 6th century BCE, this would necessarily entail a complete transformation of the political reality of the world -- a new age of universal peace and justice. That didn't happen and hasn't happened yet. Most Christians believe it will happen at the second coming; Jews only find one coming in the>
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
~ Oscar Wilde

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#221954 - 05/01/08 01:46 PM Re: If.............. [Re: dking777]
HurtinginMD Offline
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Registered: 03/01/08
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Loc: Cranston, RI
Originally Posted By: dking777
.............Jesus came back tomorrow?

How would you express your sorrow?

With gratidude.....or hate?



Honestly for me there would be no sorrow...only absolute joy. That day is a day that I have been anxiously looking towards for many years. I will shout, dance, sing, and cry tears of joy that all the years of pain are gone forever.

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#222745 - 05/06/08 04:37 AM Re: If.............. [Re: VLinvictus]
dking777 Offline
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Originally Posted By: VLinvictus
I don't believe Jesus was either God or the messiah and I don't expect him to return, so if he did then I will at first be very surprised. We don't know precisely what he would actually do once he got here, though -- each denomination seems to have a different idea of the details.


Hi,
I appreciate your honest answer.





Edited by dking777 (10/25/09 12:35 AM)
_________________________
And may you be in heaven
half an hour before the devil knows you're dead.

Bittersweet Symphony

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#222864 - 05/06/08 02:33 PM Re: If.............. [Re: dking777]
VLinvictus Offline
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Loc: NY
You're quite welcome, Dking!

When I think of "serving God," I don't see it as serving Him like a butler or maid or a soldier serving their boss or commander.

Rather, serving God is doing God's will. God's will is for life and for justice and for mercy and for peace. If we work toward those ends, we do God's will. We're not going to do it all nor are we going to do it perfectly, but every bit helps. It all comes down to a choice. Each moment of each day we have choices. We can choose to act in harmony with life, with God's will, or we can choose not to. The thing is to keep on choosing life, and that is the entirety of the Law and the Prophets \:\)

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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
~ Oscar Wilde

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#223795 - 05/11/08 10:58 PM Re: If.............. [Re: VLinvictus]
istrong Offline
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So to me Christs return heralds the end times, where the anti-christ marshals an epic host to the plains of armagedon and CHrist and his followers must stop him, to put it in cheesy movie terms. So if he came back tomorrow, I think Idd find my trench gun, kiss my a** good bye and go find oblivion b/c if his father made this earth, i cant imagine he did that good a job of heaven.

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#223812 - 05/12/08 02:58 AM Re: If.............. [Re: VLinvictus]
dking777 Offline
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Registered: 03/17/08
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Originally Posted By: VLinvictus
When I think of "serving God," I don't see it as serving Him like a butler or maid or a soldier serving their boss or commander.


I think I have always had a problem with that myself. Maybe in hindsight it has to do with being abused by a "figure of authority" in my life. I have sort of been a rebel against anyone demanding me to "serve them" without question - if you know what I mean.

Originally Posted By: VLinvictus
Rather, serving God is doing God's will. God's will is for life and for justice and for mercy and for peace. If we work toward those ends, we do God's will. We're not going to do it all nor are we going to do it perfectly, but every bit helps. It all comes down to a choice. Each moment of each day we have choices. We can choose to act in harmony with life, with God's will, or we can choose not to.




Thanks again for sharing your comments and opinions.




Edited by dking777 (10/25/09 12:33 AM)
_________________________
And may you be in heaven
half an hour before the devil knows you're dead.

Bittersweet Symphony

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#223816 - 05/12/08 03:34 AM Re: If.............. [Re: istrong]
dking777 Offline
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Originally Posted By: istrong
So to me Christs return heralds the end times, where the anti-christ marshals an epic host to the plains of armagedon and CHrist and his followers must stop him, to put it in cheesy movie terms. So if he came back tomorrow, I think Idd find my trench gun, kiss my a** good bye and go find oblivion b/c if his father made this earth, i cant imagine he did that good a job of heaven.


grin smile wink

I recently took up the study of words. Latin, Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic.



Edited by dking777 (10/25/09 12:32 AM)
_________________________
And may you be in heaven
half an hour before the devil knows you're dead.

Bittersweet Symphony

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#223924 - 05/12/08 04:39 PM Re: If.............. [Re: dking777]
blueshift Offline
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DKing, I like many of the thoughts you have expressed in this thread. I think for me, the essence of spirituality is love. I tend to think that's really what Jesus taught....but you can't use love as a tool of power and control...fear and hatred works better for that. So the real message of Jesus got lost in a lot of other stuff concocted by the religious institutions to manipulate large numbers of people through fear and hatred.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not characterizing all religion as fear and hatred, but you gotta admit that a lot of the religion we see has it's share of it. I think if there was anything to call an "anti-Christ" it would be the ideologies of fear and hatred that pass for religion for many people.





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#223955 - 05/12/08 09:14 PM Re: If.............. [Re: blueshift]
WalkingSouth Offline
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Originally Posted By: blueshift
I think if there was anything to call an "anti-Christ" it would be the ideologies of fear and hatred that pass for religion for many people.


Well said, Blueshift!

Actually as I read the Biblical accounts of the "Anti-Christ" it seems to indicate exactly that, at least to me.

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#228559 - 06/02/08 06:33 PM Re: If.............. [Re: AndyJB2005]
ktaylor7 Offline
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Registered: 06/02/08
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Loc: South Carolina
Guy's
Here is the real deal. If Christ came back tomorrow, I would simply embrace his love. If he asked me why I should be allowed in heaven, I would tell him, "because he promised me when he died on the cross, that if I had faith and believed in Him, that all my sins past present and future would be forgiven. I would accept his promise to spend eternity in heaven with Him. I can not do enough good works to get into heaven. It is only by faith through Grace that I can go to heaven. You can too! Just believe by faith that Jesus Christ died for all of yours and my sins past, present, and future. Believe that he rose from the dead three days later and that he now sits at the right hand of God. It is all about faith and grace. I would be happy to talk with anyone who wants to know more.

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Ken T.

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#228808 - 06/03/08 09:04 PM Re: If.............. [Re: dking777]
Sans Logos Offline
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Registered: 05/31/03
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Dking, as i read this question I admit I have a little grin on my face. I guess a lot of people don't think this way, but truly, Christ is already here. He left for a bit, but he came back in the form of the Holy Spirit. We all have access to him at any time.

Will he come again in human form? That remains to be seen. There is no doubt however, that he is already here helping us bear our burdens as we trudge along the paths of our bittersweet destinies. He is truly present, in our hearts, in the hearts of our neighbors, our enemies and even our perpetrators. Will we allow him to be realized in our lives? That depends on a lot of variables, but he can be here for us to the extent that we welcome him.

'Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be your name; Your kingdom come, Your will be done IN US as it is in heaven'

I hope and pray that more and more people will begin to realize that God is truly 'emmanuel' (God among us), already here and sharing his love and his powerful existance with us, desiring so deeply that we permit him complete intimacy with us that we can be with and in him to rise with him above our own manufactured earthly designs.

I am truly glad Christ is already present with us, because if he were not, I would be in deep despair.

What a gift he is!

ron

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#228870 - 06/04/08 03:52 AM Re: If.............. [Re: ktaylor7]
dking777 Offline
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Originally Posted By: ktaylor7
You can too! Just believe by faith that Jesus Christ died for all of yours and my sins past, present, and future. Believe that he rose from the dead three days later and that he now sits at the right hand of God. It is all about faith and grace. I would be happy to talk with anyone who wants to know more.



I am curious what others may think about this.





Edited by dking777 (10/25/09 12:31 AM)
_________________________
And may you be in heaven
half an hour before the devil knows you're dead.

Bittersweet Symphony

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#228902 - 06/04/08 08:58 AM Re: If.............. [Re: dking777]
Sans Logos Offline
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Registered: 05/31/03
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denial, they say, is a river in Egypt. i have seen pedophiles interviewed before, and you can tell by their demeanor that they have absolved themselves of any wrongdoing. the pain of quilt is just too great to bear, and in their sick minds, had not yet come to terms with the ramifications of their act[s] of psychic murder. only god knows what's inside of them.

ron

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


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