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#221668 - 04/30/08 10:08 AM Re: If.............. [Re: AndyJB2005]
VLinvictus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/05/07
Posts: 273
Loc: NY
FormerTexan,

I apologize if you think I labeled Jesus as a deceiver. I did not mean to do so: I have no interest in disrespecting another person's faith.

I don't think "deceiver" is the proper term, either. It would only be deception if the actual one true faith were Christianity but Jesus made it obviously and unmistakeably clear to the world at large from time to time that, say, Zoroastrianism is the correct choice.

Oh, I believe we all have a responsibility to figure out things for ourselves. There are a lot of religions out there, and within each major group there are numerous sub-divisions that believe different things. How is one to tell which one is right? All religions have pretty much the same amount of evidence to support them -- while some have more evidence agains them than others (like a certain "church" founded by a bad science fiction writer that shall remain nameless).

So, a person should go out and study as broadly as he can and decide which system, if any, makes the most sense and resonates most closely with his conscience and spirit. That's what I have done and I'm happy with my religion -- but I admit that it's essentially a crap-shoot.

Unless, of course, the Calvinists are right and those who are to be saved have been predestined from all eternity and naturally choose the correct religion automatically?

Oh well. If I weren't already Jewish I'd probably be a Buddhist.

Sorry again if I offended. I probably shouldn't have responded to this thread at all, but I was in a weird mood yesterday.

\:\(

_________________________
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
~ Oscar Wilde

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#221777 - 04/30/08 07:16 PM Re: If.............. [Re: VLinvictus]
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 10961
Loc: Denver, CO
VLinvictus,

I was thinking off and on today that I could have put my response in better terms, and I apologize for being so direct. If it's one thing I will admit to is that I on occasion project previous experiences into current issues, and it leaves me feeling more like I was a battering ram than one who admonished or edified another.

Yes, I do ask for respect towards others of faith, for we are all here for recovery purposes. I will attempt in the future to not make my point with such heavy tone.

Andy




_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

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#221852 - 05/01/08 04:41 AM Re: If.............. [Re: blueshift]
dking777 Offline
Guest

Registered: 03/17/08
Posts: 94
Loc: CA
Originally Posted By: blueshift
Thinking on it again though, I suppose I owe you the respect of some sort of answer, since I did, after all reply. It would depend on which Jesus it turns out to be...the one who taught "love thy neighbor" or the one who's Dad teaches people not to hurt people by hurting people...for ever and ever. If it's the cool one, then maybe gratitude, if it's the other one, definitely hatred..(unless he hates his Dad for it too.)


Hey,
I understand this repsonse perfectly.



Edited by dking777 (10/25/09 12:37 AM)
_________________________
And may you be in heaven
half an hour before the devil knows you're dead.

Bittersweet Symphony

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#221926 - 05/01/08 11:36 AM Re: If.............. [Re: dking777]
VLinvictus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/05/07
Posts: 273
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: dking777

Hated him so much they conspired to get him killed - and in the process people showed up to pelt him, slap him, mock him and ridicule him. Wasn't much love being shown to him in that final walk.


There are a lot of theological interpretations of the Gospel stories, but the straight surface situation seems to be that the Judean upper classes and the religious elite who collaborated with the Roman occupation considered him a rabble-rousing threat to their own power and the precarious house-of-cards relationship they had with Rome. I think Jesus Christ Superstar actually conveys this very well.

Quote:
The problem (from my study was,) people were expecting something other than what they got. From what I understand they were looking for a Messiah and were expecting a "war hero" type of fellow. They weren't expecting a pauper talking about love thy enemy.


The various messianic prophecies in Isaiah, Zechariah, Ezekiel, etc. are -- like all prophecy I guess -- not that easy to interpret. Essentially, though, the Messianic hope was for a restoration of the "golden age" of the independent sovereigh Jewish kingdom under David and Solomon. Since Judea had been ruled by the greatest empires of the world since thr 6th century BCE, this would necessarily entail a complete transformation of the political reality of the world -- a new age of universal peace and justice. That didn't happen and hasn't happened yet. Most Christians believe it will happen at the second coming; Jews only find one coming in the>
_________________________
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
~ Oscar Wilde

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#221954 - 05/01/08 01:46 PM Re: If.............. [Re: dking777]
HurtinginMD Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/01/08
Posts: 74
Loc: Cranston, RI
Originally Posted By: dking777
.............Jesus came back tomorrow?

How would you express your sorrow?

With gratidude.....or hate?



Honestly for me there would be no sorrow...only absolute joy. That day is a day that I have been anxiously looking towards for many years. I will shout, dance, sing, and cry tears of joy that all the years of pain are gone forever.

_________________________
I want always to be a boy and have fun... (Peter Pan)

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#222745 - 05/06/08 04:37 AM Re: If.............. [Re: VLinvictus]
dking777 Offline
Guest

Registered: 03/17/08
Posts: 94
Loc: CA
Originally Posted By: VLinvictus
I don't believe Jesus was either God or the messiah and I don't expect him to return, so if he did then I will at first be very surprised. We don't know precisely what he would actually do once he got here, though -- each denomination seems to have a different idea of the details.


Hi,
I appreciate your honest answer.





Edited by dking777 (10/25/09 12:35 AM)
_________________________
And may you be in heaven
half an hour before the devil knows you're dead.

Bittersweet Symphony

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#222864 - 05/06/08 02:33 PM Re: If.............. [Re: dking777]
VLinvictus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/05/07
Posts: 273
Loc: NY
You're quite welcome, Dking!

When I think of "serving God," I don't see it as serving Him like a butler or maid or a soldier serving their boss or commander.

Rather, serving God is doing God's will. God's will is for life and for justice and for mercy and for peace. If we work toward those ends, we do God's will. We're not going to do it all nor are we going to do it perfectly, but every bit helps. It all comes down to a choice. Each moment of each day we have choices. We can choose to act in harmony with life, with God's will, or we can choose not to. The thing is to keep on choosing life, and that is the entirety of the Law and the Prophets \:\)

_________________________
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
~ Oscar Wilde

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#223795 - 05/11/08 10:58 PM Re: If.............. [Re: VLinvictus]
istrong Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 79
Loc: CT
So to me Christs return heralds the end times, where the anti-christ marshals an epic host to the plains of armagedon and CHrist and his followers must stop him, to put it in cheesy movie terms. So if he came back tomorrow, I think Idd find my trench gun, kiss my a** good bye and go find oblivion b/c if his father made this earth, i cant imagine he did that good a job of heaven.

_________________________
"Go then, there are other worlds than these"
-John 'Jake' Chambers

I'd rather be above the grass than below it.

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#223812 - 05/12/08 02:58 AM Re: If.............. [Re: VLinvictus]
dking777 Offline
Guest

Registered: 03/17/08
Posts: 94
Loc: CA
Originally Posted By: VLinvictus
When I think of "serving God," I don't see it as serving Him like a butler or maid or a soldier serving their boss or commander.


I think I have always had a problem with that myself. Maybe in hindsight it has to do with being abused by a "figure of authority" in my life. I have sort of been a rebel against anyone demanding me to "serve them" without question - if you know what I mean.

Originally Posted By: VLinvictus
Rather, serving God is doing God's will. God's will is for life and for justice and for mercy and for peace. If we work toward those ends, we do God's will. We're not going to do it all nor are we going to do it perfectly, but every bit helps. It all comes down to a choice. Each moment of each day we have choices. We can choose to act in harmony with life, with God's will, or we can choose not to.




Thanks again for sharing your comments and opinions.




Edited by dking777 (10/25/09 12:33 AM)
_________________________
And may you be in heaven
half an hour before the devil knows you're dead.

Bittersweet Symphony

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#223816 - 05/12/08 03:34 AM Re: If.............. [Re: istrong]
dking777 Offline
Guest

Registered: 03/17/08
Posts: 94
Loc: CA
Originally Posted By: istrong
So to me Christs return heralds the end times, where the anti-christ marshals an epic host to the plains of armagedon and CHrist and his followers must stop him, to put it in cheesy movie terms. So if he came back tomorrow, I think Idd find my trench gun, kiss my a** good bye and go find oblivion b/c if his father made this earth, i cant imagine he did that good a job of heaven.


grin smile wink

I recently took up the study of words. Latin, Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic.



Edited by dking777 (10/25/09 12:32 AM)
_________________________
And may you be in heaven
half an hour before the devil knows you're dead.

Bittersweet Symphony

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