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#219827 - 04/22/08 10:28 PM My Two Cents On The Subject
USFbull Offline
Guest

Registered: 03/30/08
Posts: 92
Loc: Florida
"I believe that religion, generally speaking, has been a curse to mankind that its modest and greatly overestimated services on the ethical side have been more than overborne by the damage it has done to clear and honest thinking."

"A man full of faith is simply one who has lost (or never had) the capacity for clear and realistic thought. He is not a mere ass; he is actually ill. Worse, he is incurable, for disappointment, being essentially an objective phenomenon, cannot permanently affect his subjective infirmity. His faith takes on the virulence of a chronic infection. What he usually says, in substance, is this: 'Let us trust in God, who has always fooled us in the past.' "

"It is often argued that religion is valuable because it makes men good, but even if this were true it would not be a proof that religion is true. That would be an extension of pragmatism beyond endurance. Santa Claus makes children good in precisely the same way, and yet no one would argue seriously that the fact proves his existence. The defense of religion is full of such logical imbecilities. "

~H.L. Mencken

_________________________
Neither fear nor courage saves us.
Unnatural vices Are fathered by our heroism.
Virtues Are forced upon us by our impudent crimes.
These tears are shaken from
the wrath-bearing tree.
~T.S. Eliot~

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#219835 - 04/22/08 11:35 PM Re: My Two Cents On The Subject [Re: USFbull]
AndyJB2005 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 1242
Loc: Saint Paul, Minnesota
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich." -- Napoleon Bonaparte

_________________________
Life's disappointments are harder to take when you don't know any swear words. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)

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#219886 - 04/23/08 08:55 AM Re: My Two Cents On The Subject [Re: AndyJB2005]
USFbull Offline
Guest

Registered: 03/30/08
Posts: 92
Loc: Florida
Right on Andy!!!!

_________________________
Neither fear nor courage saves us.
Unnatural vices Are fathered by our heroism.
Virtues Are forced upon us by our impudent crimes.
These tears are shaken from
the wrath-bearing tree.
~T.S. Eliot~

Top
#219912 - 04/23/08 11:52 AM Re: My Two Cents On The Subject [Re: USFbull]
VLinvictus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/05/07
Posts: 273
Loc: NY
"...Man, who looked for a superhuman being in the fantastic reality of heaven and found nothing there but the reflection of himself, will no longer be disposed to find but the semblance of himself, only an inhuman being, where he seeks and must seek his true reality.

The basis of irreligious criticism is: Man makes religion, religion does not make man. Religion is the self-consciousness and self-esteem of man who has either not yet found himself or has already lost himself again. But man is no abstract being encamped outside the world. Man is the world of man, the state, society. This state, this society, produce religion, an inverted world-consciousness, because they are an inverted world. Religion is the general theory of that world, its encyclopaedic compendium, its logic in a popular form, its spiritualistic point d'honneur, its enthusiasm, its moral sanction, its solemn complement, its universal source of consolation and justification. It is the fantastic realisation of the human essence because the human essence has no true reality. The struggle against religion is therefore indirectly a fight against the world of which religion is the spiritual aroma.

Religious distress is at the same time the expression of real distress and also the protest against real distress. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of spiritless conditions. It is the opium of the people.

To abolish religion as the illusory happiness of the people is to demand their real happiness. The demand to give up illusions about the existing state of affairs is the demand to give up a state of affairs which needs illusions. The criticism of religion is therefore in embryo the criticism of the vale of tears, the halo of which is religion."

Karl Marx, "The Introduction to Contribution To The Critique Of
Hegel's Philosophy Of Right" 1844

What will really twist your noodle, though, is that I can agree with all of this yet still see value in religious practice as part of the expression of a people's self-identity. \:\)

_________________________
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
~ Oscar Wilde

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#219913 - 04/23/08 12:07 PM Re: My Two Cents On The Subject [Re: VLinvictus]
Denniss Offline
New Here

Registered: 03/17/08
Posts: 25
Loc: California
We shouldn't confuse religion (man-made) with spirituality (individually-made)..... two different things entirely.

To me, religion(s) in my community feels like a business, club, agenda driven, and generally a bunch of BS. Alternatively spirituality is very personal and provides me with healing and the ability to internalize and externailize freely.

If we step back and review the religious wars of the past and present.... one may ask which side would "God" choose to represent? Ok, we won't go there.... \:\) However everyone believes in something and human nature strangely drives us to believe in something. Personally that something isn't a "God" but rather my own sprituality which doesn't require Sunday school, Sunday Mass, etc.... which was the source of a lot of evil.... again, it's personal which reinforces my "spirituality" rather than "religious" beliefs.

_________________________
Always,
Dennis

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#219915 - 04/23/08 12:45 PM Re: My Two Cents On The Subject [Re: Denniss]
VLinvictus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/05/07
Posts: 273
Loc: NY
I think that's what Marx was getting at when he referred to "religion." If religion for you is obeying what other people say without question and trusting in a big Superman-cum-Santa Claus in the sky to fix everything so you don't rock the boat and just accept the way things are in this world, then that's a problem.

On the other hand, if you believe that "God" is that force within us, within all the universe, that is on the side of life over death and urges us toward the improvement of the world, then religion is not a bad thing at all. I do not look for "God" outside of me, but within. I do not pray expecting someone else to fix things for me: I meditate to try to find within myself the strength to make the right decisions. And my religious practice expresses for me my values and my identity as a member of my people and gives structure and inspiration to my life.

_________________________
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
~ Oscar Wilde

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#222234 - 05/02/08 11:58 PM Re: My Two Cents On The Subject [Re: VLinvictus]
wojax Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/22/04
Posts: 171
Loc: Florida
I believe in Jesus the Christ I believe he died for our sin, I believe he was dead and baried and on the 3d day he rose again to be with the father God.
I also believe that religion is what killed him

_________________________
Jer 7:23 ps 91:16

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#222309 - 05/03/08 02:48 PM Re: My Two Cents On The Subject [Re: wojax]
Marinan Offline
Guest

Registered: 07/03/07
Posts: 329
I agree with Wojax.

Christianity is not a religion. Christianity is the Holy Spirit directing man to do Christ's will on the Earth.


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#222398 - 05/04/08 07:24 AM Re: My Two Cents On The Subject [Re: Marinan]
AndyJB2005 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 1242
Loc: Saint Paul, Minnesota
Was The Holy Spirit directing my dad in Christ's Will? Or is it just the saved He favors?

_________________________
Life's disappointments are harder to take when you don't know any swear words. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)

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#222439 - 05/04/08 11:25 AM Re: My Two Cents On The Subject [Re: AndyJB2005]
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 10961
Loc: Denver, CO
Andy,

I would say your dad was directing himself when he made his (wrong) choices against you.

To your second question, I would say John 3:16.

Andy

_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

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