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#219827 - 04/22/08 10:28 PM My Two Cents On The Subject
USFbull Offline
Guest

Registered: 03/30/08
Posts: 92
Loc: Florida
"I believe that religion, generally speaking, has been a curse to mankind — that its modest and greatly overestimated services on the ethical side have been more than overborne by the damage it has done to clear and honest thinking."

"A man full of faith is simply one who has lost (or never had) the capacity for clear and realistic thought. He is not a mere ass; he is actually ill. Worse, he is incurable, for disappointment, being essentially an objective phenomenon, cannot permanently affect his subjective infirmity. His faith takes on the virulence of a chronic infection. What he usually says, in substance, is this: 'Let us trust in God, who has always fooled us in the past.' "

"It is often argued that religion is valuable because it makes men good, but even if this were true it would not be a proof that religion is true. That would be an extension of pragmatism beyond endurance. Santa Claus makes children good in precisely the same way, and yet no one would argue seriously that the fact proves his existence. The defense of religion is full of such logical imbecilities. "

~H.L. Mencken

_________________________
Neither fear nor courage saves us.
Unnatural vices Are fathered by our heroism.
Virtues Are forced upon us by our impudent crimes.
These tears are shaken from
the wrath-bearing tree.
~T.S. Eliot~

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#219835 - 04/22/08 11:35 PM Re: My Two Cents On The Subject [Re: USFbull]
AndyJB2005 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 1242
Loc: Saint Paul, Minnesota
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich." -- Napoleon Bonaparte

_________________________
Life's disappointments are harder to take when you don't know any swear words. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)

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#219886 - 04/23/08 08:55 AM Re: My Two Cents On The Subject [Re: AndyJB2005]
USFbull Offline
Guest

Registered: 03/30/08
Posts: 92
Loc: Florida
Right on Andy!!!!

_________________________
Neither fear nor courage saves us.
Unnatural vices Are fathered by our heroism.
Virtues Are forced upon us by our impudent crimes.
These tears are shaken from
the wrath-bearing tree.
~T.S. Eliot~

Top
#219912 - 04/23/08 11:52 AM Re: My Two Cents On The Subject [Re: USFbull]
VLinvictus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/05/07
Posts: 273
Loc: NY
"...Man, who looked for a superhuman being in the fantastic reality of heaven and found nothing there but the reflection of himself, will no longer be disposed to find but the semblance of himself, only an inhuman being, where he seeks and must seek his true reality.

The basis of irreligious criticism is: Man makes religion, religion does not make man. Religion is the self-consciousness and self-esteem of man who has either not yet found himself or has already lost himself again. But man is no abstract being encamped outside the world. Man is the world of man, the state, society. This state, this society, produce religion, an inverted world-consciousness, because they are an inverted world. Religion is the general theory of that world, its encyclopaedic compendium, its logic in a popular form, its spiritualistic point d'honneur, its enthusiasm, its moral sanction, its solemn complement, its universal source of consolation and justification. It is the fantastic realisation of the human essence because the human essence has no true reality. The struggle against religion is therefore indirectly a fight against the world of which religion is the spiritual aroma.

Religious distress is at the same time the expression of real distress and also the protest against real distress. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of spiritless conditions. It is the opium of the people.

To abolish religion as the illusory happiness of the people is to demand their real happiness. The demand to give up illusions about the existing state of affairs is the demand to give up a state of affairs which needs illusions. The criticism of religion is therefore in embryo the criticism of the vale of tears, the halo of which is religion."

Karl Marx, "The Introduction to Contribution To The Critique Of
Hegel's Philosophy Of Right" 1844

What will really twist your noodle, though, is that I can agree with all of this yet still see value in religious practice as part of the expression of a people's self-identity. \:\)

_________________________
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
~ Oscar Wilde

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#219913 - 04/23/08 12:07 PM Re: My Two Cents On The Subject [Re: VLinvictus]
Denniss Offline
New Here

Registered: 03/17/08
Posts: 25
Loc: California
We shouldn't confuse religion (man-made) with spirituality (individually-made)..... two different things entirely.

To me, religion(s) in my community feels like a business, club, agenda driven, and generally a bunch of BS. Alternatively spirituality is very personal and provides me with healing and the ability to internalize and externailize freely.

If we step back and review the religious wars of the past and present.... one may ask which side would "God" choose to represent? Ok, we won't go there.... \:\) However everyone believes in something and human nature strangely drives us to believe in something. Personally that something isn't a "God" but rather my own sprituality which doesn't require Sunday school, Sunday Mass, etc.... which was the source of a lot of evil.... again, it's personal which reinforces my "spirituality" rather than "religious" beliefs.

_________________________
Always,
Dennis

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#219915 - 04/23/08 12:45 PM Re: My Two Cents On The Subject [Re: Denniss]
VLinvictus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/05/07
Posts: 273
Loc: NY
I think that's what Marx was getting at when he referred to "religion." If religion for you is obeying what other people say without question and trusting in a big Superman-cum-Santa Claus in the sky to fix everything so you don't rock the boat and just accept the way things are in this world, then that's a problem.

On the other hand, if you believe that "God" is that force within us, within all the universe, that is on the side of life over death and urges us toward the improvement of the world, then religion is not a bad thing at all. I do not look for "God" outside of me, but within. I do not pray expecting someone else to fix things for me: I meditate to try to find within myself the strength to make the right decisions. And my religious practice expresses for me my values and my identity as a member of my people and gives structure and inspiration to my life.

_________________________
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
~ Oscar Wilde

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#222234 - 05/02/08 11:58 PM Re: My Two Cents On The Subject [Re: VLinvictus]
wojax Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/22/04
Posts: 171
Loc: Florida
I believe in Jesus the Christ I believe he died for our sin, I believe he was dead and baried and on the 3d day he rose again to be with the father God.
I also believe that religion is what killed him

_________________________
Jer 7:23 ps 91:16

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#222309 - 05/03/08 02:48 PM Re: My Two Cents On The Subject [Re: wojax]
Marinan Offline
Guest

Registered: 07/03/07
Posts: 329
I agree with Wojax.

Christianity is not a religion. Christianity is the Holy Spirit directing man to do Christ's will on the Earth.


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#222398 - 05/04/08 07:24 AM Re: My Two Cents On The Subject [Re: Marinan]
AndyJB2005 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 1242
Loc: Saint Paul, Minnesota
Was The Holy Spirit directing my dad in Christ's Will? Or is it just the saved He favors?

_________________________
Life's disappointments are harder to take when you don't know any swear words. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)

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#222439 - 05/04/08 11:25 AM Re: My Two Cents On The Subject [Re: AndyJB2005]
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 10948
Loc: Denver, CO
Andy,

I would say your dad was directing himself when he made his (wrong) choices against you.

To your second question, I would say John 3:16.

Andy

_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

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#222442 - 05/04/08 11:51 AM Re: My Two Cents On The Subject [Re: FormerTexan]
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 10948
Loc: Denver, CO
“ God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel”

“In the beginning of the contest with Britain, when we were sensible of danger, we had daily prayers in this room for Divine protection. Our prayers, Sir, were heard, and they were graciously answered… do we imagine we no longer need His assistance?”

~Ben Franklin

_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

Top
#440158 - 07/05/13 07:04 PM Re: My Two Cents On The Subject [Re: USFbull]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 2972
Loc: O Kanada
http://www.revivallifestyle.com/religion-vs-jesus/



What if I told you, Jesus came to abolish religion?

What if I told you getting you to vote republican, really wasn’t his mission?

Because republican doesn’t automatically mean Christian,

And just because you call some people blind, doesn’t automatically give you vision.

If religion is so great, why has it started so many wars?

Why does it build huge churches, but fails to feed the poor?

Tells single moms God doesn’t love them if they’ve ever been divorced

Yet God in the Old Testament actually calls the religious people whores

Religion preaches grace, but another thing they practice,

Tend to ridicule Gods people, they did it to John the Baptist,

Can't fix their problems, so they try to mask it,

Not realizing that’s just like spraying perfume on a casket

Because the problem with religion is that it never gets to the core,

It’s just behavior modification, like a long list of chores.

Let’s dress up the outside, make things look nice and neat,

Its funny that’s what they do to mummies, while the corpse rots underneath,

Now I ain’t judging I’m just saying be careful of putting on a fake look,

Because there’s a problem if people only know that you’re a Christian by that little section on your facebook

In every other aspect of life you know that logic's unworthy

It's like saying you play for the Lakers just because you bought a jersey

But see I played this game too; no one seemed to be on to me,

I was acting like church kid, while addicted to pornography.

I’d go to church on Sunday, but on saturday getting faded,

Acting as if I was simply created to have sex and get wasted.

Spend my whole life putting on this façade of neatness,

But now that I know Jesus, I boast in my weakness.

If grace is water, then the church should be an ocean,

Cuz it's not a museum for good people, it’s a hospital for the broken

I no longer have to hide my failures I don’t have to hide my sin,

Because my salvation doesn’t depend on me, it depends on him.

because when I was God's enemy and certainly not a fan,

God looked down on me and said, “I want that man!”

Which is so different from religious people, and why Jesus called'em fools

Don’t you see he's so much better than just following some rules?

Now let me clarify, I love the church, I love the bible, and I believe in sin

But my question is, if Jesus were here today, would your church let Him in?

Remember He was called a drunkard and a glutton by “religious men”

The Son of God did not support self-righteousness, not now, not then.



Now back to the topic, one thing I think is vital to mention,

How Jesus and religion are on opposite spectrums,

One is the work of God one is a man made invention,

One is the cure and one is the infection.

Because Religion says do, Jesus says done.

Religion says slave, Jesus says son,

Religion puts you in shackles but Jesus sets you free.

Religion makes you blind, but Jesus lets you see.



This is what makes religion and Jesus two different clans,

Religion is man searching for God, but Christianity is God searching for man.

Which is why salvation is freely mine, forgiveness is my own,

Not based on my efforts, but Christ’s obedience alone.

Because he took the crown of thorns, and blood that dripped down his face

He took what we all deserved, that’s why we call it grace.

While being murdered he yelled “father forgive them, they know not what they do”,

Because when he was dangling on that cross, he was thinking of you

He paid for all your sin, and then buried it in the tomb,

Which is why I'm kneeling at the cross now saying come on there’s room

So know I hate religion, in fact I literally resent it,

Because when Jesus cried "It is finished", I believe He meant it.
_________________________
Victor|Victim

War
Love
Poetry

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