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#219636 - 04/22/08 06:17 AM Haboring Hate and bitterness
dking777 Offline
Guest

Registered: 03/17/08
Posts: 94
Loc: CA


Just a thought.






Edited by dking777 (10/25/09 01:05 AM)
_________________________
And may you be in heaven
half an hour before the devil knows you're dead.

Bittersweet Symphony

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#219655 - 04/22/08 09:45 AM Re: Haboring Hate and bitterness [Re: dking777]
SEVEN ARROWS Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/12/07
Posts: 1298
Just saw your post and i agree with most of what you say, but hate keeps me alive.


Ben


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#219658 - 04/22/08 10:16 AM Re: Haboring Hate and bitterness [Re: SEVEN ARROWS]
AndyJB2005 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 1242
Loc: Saint Paul, Minnesota
Agreed, DKing. Are we for healing or not?

Sometimes I feel like if I'm not murderous towards my dad that somehow I'm looked down upon here.

Sometimes I feel like people think I don't know abuse just because I'm not murderous. Like I'm not a "real" victim.

Well I was raped by my dad for 10 years. How's that? I was a toddler when it started. Is that "real" enough?

I choose to heal, not to fester. Not for my dad, but for myself.

I spent too long festering, hating my dad as his punishment. All it did was give me an ulcer. He didn't feel sorry or remorseful.

_________________________
Life's disappointments are harder to take when you don't know any swear words. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)

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#219660 - 04/22/08 10:22 AM Re: Haboring Hate and bitterness [Re: AndyJB2005]
SEVEN ARROWS Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/12/07
Posts: 1298
Andy

No one looks down upon you, you were hurt and are still now years later a good person, its good you do not feel the rage some of us do.

i wish i was more like you, i mean this.

Now i will shut my mouth sorry.

ben


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#219663 - 04/22/08 10:40 AM Re: Haboring Hate and bitterness [Re: SEVEN ARROWS]
JustScott Offline
Greeter Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 2572
I hope to grow. I feel no hate toward some of my abusers. The last one I'm still harboring a lot of hatred and anger. I do realize that seeing him dead or hurt or any of that won't make me feel better, it won't change things. I realize that, so I hope in time I can forgive and grow.

No need to shut your mouth or apologize Ben. We all spend time in that angry/hateful mode. It's a growth process. Yearn to grow!

We can become more than the sum of our past. We can grow. We can overcome! We can rise above the ashes, like the Phoenix.


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#219682 - 04/22/08 01:08 PM Re: Haboring Hate and bitterness [Re: JustScott]
Jeff Amsel Offline


Registered: 04/14/08
Posts: 17
Loc: NJ
I thought I was willing to forgive. Not any longer. I cant do it. I am not ready to do it. I want revenge. I will never get it, and that upsets me more. Abe(my father) is nothing but a leech and scumbag. I have supported him more years that he deserved. I tried making amends, and was shunned by him. It is disgraceful how he acted. My anger is not at rage level any longer, just good ole' angry. Cant get rid of it. Learning to live with it instead.


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#219707 - 04/22/08 02:36 PM Re: Haboring Hate and bitterness [Re: Jeff Amsel]
OKIE MIKE Offline
Member

Registered: 02/13/04
Posts: 979
Loc: HULBERT OK
How do you forgive someone that has done life long dammage to you . I can not for give because I can not forget

_________________________
MICHAEL

"I HAD NO SHOES THEN I SAW A MAN THAT HAD NO FEET"

"All I can do is be me, whoever that is"

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#219784 - 04/22/08 07:09 PM Re: Haboring Hate and bitterness [Re: OKIE MIKE]
melliferal Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 1159
Just as everybody's story of abuse is different, and the aftermath that each of us experiences is different, so, I feel, our paths of healing are all different. While it is absolutely undeniable that "letting go of hate" is an important and crucial step on the path to healing for some (and kudos to those who find it), I'm not fully convinced that it's a necessary step on everybody's path to healing.

_________________________
Children cannot consent; they can only comply.

Oprah's resources for male survivors

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#219804 - 04/22/08 08:15 PM Re: Haboring Hate and bitterness [Re: dking777]
GateKPR4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/28/07
Posts: 955
Loc: North Carolina, USA
I don't think I fester in hate or my abusers anymore but if I seen one walking down the road I could loose control of my car. At least I think that but would I do it ?
I don't know until it happens. The sick F##K is in jail and thats enough for me.
The others well they are sick, some are probably dead by now. I'm working on me and my issues I don't have time to waste hating them. I can hate what they did but I don't have to live that hate every moment of my life or feel it every day. It's easier said than done but it can be done.

_________________________
I'm a normal person dealing with abnormal experiences.
The greatest discoveries we will find within ourselves.
Ricky
__m_ô¿ô_m__
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#219831 - 04/22/08 11:02 PM Re: Haboring Hate and bitterness [Re: GateKPR4]
ericc Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/04/08
Posts: 1960
I know I have expressed some anger and hatred here. But I do try to not dwell in those emotions, they are just things that come up from time to time.

My life is in many ways an emotional kaleidescope that seems to change often. But I am trying to learn from these emotions and the things that cause them to change.

In fact, I am often in an agreeable mood. Sometimes that is because I am feeling good emotionally, and others because I try to suck up the bad feelings I am going through. But, there are definitely times where I know the pain and hurt show through pretty easily. Also, I am learning to better share my feelings so they don't get all bottled up and fill me with that type of emotional pressure.

So anyway, I know the hate and anger thing will come up for me from time to time. But I am more interested in getting on with life and partaking in things I couldn't or wouldn't allow myself to do before. These things are much more important to me. I am trying to get there one step at a time.


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#219840 - 04/22/08 11:52 PM Re: Haboring Hate and bitterness [Re: Jeff Amsel]
dking777 Offline
Guest

Registered: 03/17/08
Posts: 94
Loc: CA
Originally Posted By: Jeff Amsel
I thought I was willing to forgive. Not any longer. I cant do it. I am not ready to do it. I want revenge. I will never get it, and that upsets me more. Abe(my father) is nothing but a leech and scumbag. I have supported him more years that he deserved. I tried making amends, and was shunned by him. It is disgraceful how he acted. My anger is not at rage level any longer, just good ole' angry. Cant get rid of it. Learning to live with it instead.


Any way - thanks for allowing me to share my feelings here.





Edited by dking777 (10/25/09 01:04 AM)
_________________________
And may you be in heaven
half an hour before the devil knows you're dead.

Bittersweet Symphony

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#219905 - 04/23/08 11:24 AM Re: Haboring Hate and bitterness [Re: ericc]
Magoo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/04/08
Posts: 48
Loc: far, far away
An old chinese proverb says, 'when seeking revenge, dig two graves, one for yourself'
This is because you will always be tied to and buried with your anger. To forgive and let go is helpful in order to move on. For others, it can't be done. To forgive is not to forget, just to be able to enjoy the rest of your life without carrying that bag of garbage around with you.
My case, I hope the bastard's dead already and died a horrible death!


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#219911 - 04/23/08 11:50 AM Re: Haboring Hate and bitterness [Re: Magoo]
Denniss Offline
New Here

Registered: 03/17/08
Posts: 25
Loc: California
WOW, topic of what I've been wrestling with as of late.... thank you for teeing it up!

I hate, resent, and pray for eternal damnation for those who hurt children.... my personal feelings. That said, I also have come to learn that "Hurt People, Hurt People" and it's important to remain mindful that breaking that cycle is something I choose to do.

My abusers hurt me and I wasn't even old enough to understand that I was being hurt. If I mentally swim in that for more than a minute or two then I become overwhelmed with so much negativity that I cannot even function. I consciously have to work at looking forward rather than in the rear-view mirror. The ghosts and monsters are just too evil behind me.... therefore I keep them behind me. Everyday they become further and further behind me.... not sure if I'm making sense but it helps me to share.

Right or wrong, I can't keep going back to those who caused me so much hurt and try to somehow even the score.... it's a death-spiral. As much as I'd like to see them burn, it won't remove the thumb-print that they've left on my life. I'm not even going to attempt forgiveness 'cause it's just too big and I'd rather invest in building a safe future for myself and family.

It feels like the abuse cycle has been broken and that's sweet revenge for me....

_________________________
Always,
Dennis

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#219960 - 04/23/08 05:00 PM Re: Haboring Hate and bitterness [Re: Denniss]
dking777 Offline
Guest

Registered: 03/17/08
Posts: 94
Loc: CA
Originally Posted By: Denniss
My abusers hurt me and I wasn't even old enough to understand that I was being hurt. If I mentally swim in that for more than a minute or two then I become overwhelmed with so much negativity that I cannot even function. I consciously have to work at looking forward rather than in the rear-view mirror. The ghosts and monsters are just too evil behind me.... therefore I keep them behind me. Everyday they become further and further behind me.... not sure if I'm making sense but it helps me to share.


A couple of days ago - I was updating my web site - and stopped to look at one of the video's I have emmbedded in one of my pages.





Edited by dking777 (10/25/09 01:03 AM)
_________________________
And may you be in heaven
half an hour before the devil knows you're dead.

Bittersweet Symphony

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#219964 - 04/23/08 05:13 PM Re: Haboring Hate and bitterness [Re: dking777]
delta.tetra Offline
Member

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 108
Loc: Netherlands
DKing

"We have to be better than the evil that was done to us."

I agree.

Will it do us good to see our perps dead?

For a long time I thought I'd not start getting better until my father (perp) was dead. I'd decided years ago not to murder him, though I had had means, motive, and opportunity. So I waited and waited as he got older and older.

But then I got in therapy, and this attitude was directly tackled and dealt with. Towards the end of 2006 I enacted a ritual, with the intention to say farewell to the past and the perps.

My ritual speech began, "We are gathered here today to celebrate the death of my father!" And celebrate we did with a detailed and meaningful ritual, exactly to my specifications. (Made up by the inner child!) Champagne was popped and poured away in the river, representing tears that would never again to be shed for the crimes of the past; there were coffin nails and fireworks, a message in a bottle, red sealing wax and an enormous heave and it was gone!

It felt great to throw away all that anger and hate. After all I had no use for anger and hate. I wasn't going use my anger to help me actually kill the perp, and to keep carrying around the tools of murder in my heart, only hurt me.

Since then I have continued to develop the feeling that I can live my own life, as if he were dead, regardless of whether or not he still lives.

Later I might forget about living my life 'regardless of whatever' and just get on with living my own life.

I believe we can recover from CSA without taking revenge on our perps.



all the best to you


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#219967 - 04/23/08 05:24 PM Re: Haboring Hate and bitterness [Re: dking777]
Denniss Offline
New Here

Registered: 03/17/08
Posts: 25
Loc: California
Dking,

Thank you for the note and for striking a chord (no pun) with Kurt's song. I'm a HUGE fan, have the sheet music, the CD, played it many times, and have NOW found new/compassionate meaning within the lyrics.

Like Kurt, it is clear that you care about making a difference as well.

If you get a chance, check out Everlast's song titled "Put Your Lights On". It's loaded with more simplistic yet applicable symbols of overcoming evil with love.

Thank you DKing!

_________________________
Always,
Dennis

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#220074 - 04/23/08 11:36 PM Re: Haboring Hate and bitterness [Re: Denniss]
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16264
Originally Posted By: Denniss
I hate, resent, and pray for eternal damnation for those who hurt children.... my personal feelings. That said, I also have come to learn that "Hurt People, Hurt People" and it's important to remain mindful that breaking that cycle is something I choose to do.


Very powerful statement, Denniss. Thanks for stating it in the way you did.

Lots of love,

John

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#221024 - 04/28/08 07:36 AM Re: Haboring Hate and bitterness [Re: delta.tetra]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Originally Posted By: delta.tetra
It felt great to throw away all that anger and hate. After all I had no use for anger and hate. I wasn't going use my anger to help me actually kill the perp, and to keep carrying around the tools of murder in my heart, only hurt me.

Since then I have continued to develop the feeling that I can live my own life, as if he were dead, regardless of whether or not he still lives.

Later I might forget about living my life 'regardless of whatever' and just get on with living my own life.

I believe we can recover from CSA without taking revenge on our perps.


I can so relate to this. I was stuck in the situation of fearing and fuming over a perp I knew had been dead more than a decade. Learning to let go of that was a process crucial to my recovery.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#221038 - 04/28/08 09:20 AM Re: Haboring Hate and bitterness [Re: roadrunner]
hogan_dawg Offline
Guest

Registered: 03/26/08
Posts: 492
Hey DKing you asked:

- Will it do us good to see our perps dead?
- Will it make us feel good about who and what we are?
- Will it make us feel good to see someone else tormented?

My anger is justified, I don't accept what happened to me, I'm pissed off and I like it.

Revenge is uncool. Justice is cool. Irony is way cool.

My perpetrator drunkenly falling into a vat of other men's discharge without me lifting a hand would be amusing, but wouldn't solve my problems. Is it too dark? Maybe. But life imitating art is sometimes dark.

I say, 'fume away'. To hell with relinquishing your anger. And if staying angry means your recovery takes a little longer, I say So be it. You've got time to move through it at your own pace.

Your anger is valid my friend!

Nature or God gave you that emotion 'anger' for a reason - to inform you that you were unjustly abused at the hands of another. He/Nature gave you that emotion because it works and is adaptive to FEEL what is inside you.

And to hell with numbness.

That all said, if you do get to the point where you are nearly Messiah-like and can 'let go' of your anger and forgive your perpetrator, then you're doing just great.

I personally am not 'letting go' right now. But I admire those who do so.



Edited by hogan_dawg (04/28/08 09:29 AM)
_________________________
I can say unequivocally that the lie of "To truly heal you must first forgive" has derailed more victims than the abusers themselves.
Andrew Vachs, 2003

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