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#218289 - 04/15/08 11:40 AM Re: Intimacy [Re: Freedom49]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 1937
Loc: durham, north england
with respect roger, i really don't agree with the genda bias in your post. What you describe as "what most women want" is exactly what I want. I want someone I can make love to, share myself with completely. The idea of doing things just for the satisfaction of physical desires is one that both terrifies and disgusts me. Even in terminology, explicite language or the S word is something I really don't like, but I'm quite happy with the expression "making love" This might be to do with my abuse, but i certainly have one male friend who works the same way.

On the other hand, I have met very casual girls who behave much as you describe guys behaving, ---- and that sort of thing scares me! Even when a close friend of mine talks about her desire to effectively be with her boyfriend, and how she had to practice and study to get it right, I find myself feeling very uncomfortable.

THUS FAR THOUGH, THIS JUST HASN'T HAPPENED AT ALL, AND EXAMINING THE REASONS AS TO WHY, MY PROBLEMS WITH PHYSICAL CONTACT AND SELF WORTH IS SOMETHING THAT'S TAKING UP A LOT OF MY TIME AND ENERGY AT THE MOMENT.

this is why as I said Geff, I always imagine communication being the major thing, sinse I've always hoped that if I get to the point of making love with someone, she will understand, ---- certainly all the girls I've fallen in love with have been good friends first, and friends I've been able to talk to about a lot of things (though not about my abuse, sinse I've only started talking about that from last november onwards). Perhaps the ability to discuss things without feeling shamefull or embarrassed is something that you could as Land of shaddow said, try solving with a therapist. You might also considder writing about things on this forum with chaps who will be more understanding, ---- which certainly is something I've found helpful.

Of course, this is just me, and I personally dislike all the social conventions around genda, ---- and around anything else, anyway, and other people might work differently, particularly with what happens withA FEAR of ANYthing physical.

I'm really sorry for slightly taking things offtopic, but this is a major thing I'm struggling with at the moment.



Edited by dark empathy (04/15/08 12:00 PM)

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#218290 - 04/15/08 11:48 AM Re: Intimacy [Re: dark empathy]
Freedom49 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 2723
Loc: Washington State
DE
I was speaking in generalities and indeed got to gender specific. This is true as you say of some men. I have even found it so with me later in life. Your point is well taken. These feelings may not at all be gender specific per se. Generally speaking though from all I have read or experienced this is true. There are definately, as you so accurately point out, notabable exceptions. Thank you for bringing that up.


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#218293 - 04/15/08 12:06 PM Re: Intimacy [Re: Freedom49]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 1937
Loc: durham, north england
well I'm sorry about jumping on you over this one roger. I'll admit, that genda equality is something I tend to become defensive about, both because of my ethical position on the subject, and because any suggestion that as a male I'm "only interested in one thing" is something I'd find disgusting, ---- not the least because my abusers were female.

one of the worst run ins I had over this was in a lecture about the ethics of these sorts of relations given by a rabbid feminist, where I became so angry I physically had to shut down and close myself off from what was being said to avoid screaming.

i certainly agree that both in social convention and historically, there has been a genda bias over this sort of thing, which is obviously not good. it might be that being at university I tend to run into unconventional people anyway.

I'm really sorry if what I said sounded angry or defensive.


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#218298 - 04/15/08 12:12 PM Re: Intimacy [Re: dark empathy]
Freedom49 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 2723
Loc: Washington State
Wow DE not at all. You picked up appropriately on a blind spot in my discourse lol. I am glad you did and your input is valuable to me as it is others as well. Thank you for your post.


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#218299 - 04/15/08 12:17 PM Re: Intimacy [Re: Freedom49]
Magoo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/04/08
Posts: 48
Loc: far, far away
What an awesome reply, Roger!
You described ME perfectly. When I'm in a relationship, initially it's mostly physical and I have no problems with sex. After I start to develop deeper feelings, usually 3 months, and intimacy, my sex drive wanes. Then my partner starts to get worried that something is wrong with HER (why women always think something is wrong with THEM is strange to me). And then I'm single again. This has happened to me too many times. I don't know exactly why, but it has something to do with trust and being a CSA.
My T will help me with this and that is my suggestion to you, Jeff. Get a good therapist, be honest, and you'll figure things out before getting involved with someone and repeating the pattern of pain.
Peace,
M


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#218345 - 04/15/08 03:46 PM Re: Intimacy [Re: roadrunner]
Jeff Amsel Offline


Registered: 04/14/08
Posts: 17
Loc: NJ
Thanks Larry. What you say makes sense, but tough to put into practice. I am seeking a therapist now, and hope to really get into this. Love Back to you Jeff


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#218346 - 04/15/08 03:53 PM Re: Intimacy [Re: Freedom49]
Jeff Amsel Offline


Registered: 04/14/08
Posts: 17
Loc: NJ
Roger, so well put. My fear/pain never shows when it's casual or recreational sex. Only when the woman is meaningful. I dont know why or how to overcome that. Casual leads to meaningful, and when that happens "forgetaboutit". I become terrified. I come up with the most rediculus excuses imaginable. Hope to find a therapist soon and work thru this. I will remember your words. Thanks,


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#218350 - 04/15/08 04:28 PM Re: Intimacy [Re: dark empathy]
Jeff Amsel Offline


Registered: 04/14/08
Posts: 17
Loc: NJ
Shame and embarassment is holding me back from communicating. I find that just getting into a conversation makes me shy and I have to keep my mouth shut. This coming from somebody that did stand-up comedy for 22 yrs. It was tough for me to use dirty words thus I was not able to work certain rooms in NYC. Competing with people like Andrew Dice Clay, Jimmy Walker, Sam Kennison made it impossible for me to get the gig. My act was more like Alan King, Sid Ceaser etc. Worked adult rooms, not for the kids. Never used 4 letter words.....and my sex life was as silent....and in the dark of night. Daytime was out of the question......
More later..............


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#218351 - 04/15/08 04:31 PM Re: Intimacy [Re: Magoo]
Jeff Amsel Offline


Registered: 04/14/08
Posts: 17
Loc: NJ
M, your post was right on the money for me. After a period of time, 2-3 months, I am on the move....find another woman, I cant get into bed with this one any more....and yes....they ask what is wrong with them.....WHY???? I have no idea, but I sure cant tell them the truth. I will be in therapy soon I hope. Thanks,


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#218433 - 04/15/08 10:44 PM Re: Intimacy [Re: Jeff Amsel]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 1937
Loc: durham, north england
Geff, I've never tried stand up comedy, but what you say is also something I recognize, and it's great your starting to talk about it.

I've been a fairly serious tenor for the last few years, and have done some very major things performance wise. the odd thing is, I find myself able to do things in terms of physical contact or even suggestive dialogue on stage which I'm not able to do off it, ---- in fact I think during one very major production of trial by jury, at the international gilbert and sullivan festival, I got kissed on the cheak and hugged more times than I'd ever been in my life off stage.

On stage though, this is fine, and the adrenaline is there to stop me from panicking as I would were I not on stage.

Also, for years I've developed a conversational stratogy which, ---- while not exactly false, allows me to hide my true feelings. people often say how confident I appear, when really i'm full of thoughts of what an awful person i must be. I'm even chosen to perform duties like tutor for my colidge, or representative for my academic department because of my ability to put across the idea of being very relaxed and confident in what i'm doing.

but it's all just acquired acting skill of course.

I'm not sure if this is similar to what you were saying, but it's what resonated with me when I read your post.

Please certainly feel free to say more about how you feel. As i've learned the hard way over the passed few weeks, for all the anger and energy I try to put into dealing with the way I feel, those feelings won't go away and all I end up doing is exhausting myself. So, i'm now trying just talking about them for the sake of accepting them. Perhaps doing the same can help you as well?

One question does occur to me, ----- feel free to answer or not as you wish, but do you have any idea why you feel ashamed or embarrassed, and why you feel you need to stay silent?

I really hope this helps.



Edited by dark empathy (04/15/08 11:03 PM)

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