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#217554 - 04/12/08 11:46 AM Is there a god........???.........who cares
thecoopstah Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/19/04
Posts: 589
Loc: massachusetts
I THINK I"M GOING TO BE SICK

IF ...IF...IF there was a god why would he allow such horror and catastrophic tragedies go on and on and on and on in this world and yet nothing whatsoever is done until........until it's to late then "you" hear the famous line " i didn't see that or this coming"

Give me a break....i'm not so sure anymore if there is a god i am to fuckin pissed at him right now and have been for awhile although i do have my days that i think i believe yet i have other days X happens and i revert back to survival of self.

Who knows maybe this is one of "those" days.


Coop

PS: please dont tell me now i am not entitled to my opinion or have the choice to use my voice.

_________________________
" You never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have "

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#217564 - 04/12/08 12:16 PM Re: Is there a god........???.........who cares [Re: thecoopstah]
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 11112
Loc: Denver, CO
Well, if there is no God, then how can one be angry with what is not there?

_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

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#217569 - 04/12/08 12:51 PM Re: Is there a god........???.........who cares [Re: FormerTexan]
VN Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 723
Originally Posted By: FormerTexan
Well, if there is no God, then how can one be angry with what is not there?


My question also.

VN


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#217578 - 04/12/08 01:48 PM Re: Is there a god........???.........who cares [Re: VN]
hogan_dawg Offline
Guest

Registered: 03/26/08
Posts: 492
"If there was a god why would he allow such horror and catastrophic tragedies go on..."

Classic question because if God is all knowing and all seeing and all powerful, how could he allow such sin to exist?

One unsatisfying answer: It's not in our wisdom to understand God, as God is divine perfection. The evil done to us is not the creation of a divine and perfect God. It is the creation of evil.

_________________________
I can say unequivocally that the lie of "To truly heal you must first forgive" has derailed more victims than the abusers themselves.
Andrew Vachs, 2003

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#217621 - 04/12/08 05:35 PM Re: Is there a god........???.........who cares [Re: hogan_dawg]
blueshift Offline
Guest

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 1242
Loc: infinity
Seems like if you don't believe it is "not in your wisdom" but if you do believe, you have all kinds of "wisdom" about what God is and what he thinks and so forth.

Oh, wait, that's not wisdom, though, that's called faith. But is it really faith in a spiritual entity or is it faith in other humans who are supposed to be closer to God than we? (Otherwise called "prophets" ...those through whom God favored above others enough to grant divine vision/inspiration.)

I guess when it comes right down to it, I have no faith at all because all of my beliefs are somehow based on logic and/or experience...even my belief in what I can't hope to fully understand.

How is someone like me who owes all I have and rely on to logic and experience supposed to abandon those things in favor of unquestioning trust which has so far only got me raped, used and conned?

Are these unfair questions? I know I trust in things every day that I have no real understanding of, but only because logic and experience has shown me that those things are reliable.

Seems to me as if the concept of faith is the idea of saying that everything the world we live in tells us about reality is not to be trusted, but that so called "profits" and others who are supposed to have had "divine revelation" are to be trusted.

So it's basically saying that the universe is wrong but a select elite of humans are right. (Keep in mind here that I am not only speaking of exoteric Christianity, but of all supposedly "divinely inspired" religions, so I'm not picking on anyone.)

Of course, obviously, my mind is made up on the matter---my involvement here is not to promote my beliefs or discount other's beliefs, but to make those here who feel as I do feel like they too are being heard by those of the same mind as themselves. It isn't just the religious who need fellowship and sense of community.


As for how you can be angry at a God you don't believe in, I agree that you can't. If you believe you are angry with God, then you believe in God...and if you believe in the a God that judges and condemns for not abandoning rationality and experience in favor of what I can only see as irrationality, (faith), then I don't blame you for being angry.



Edited by blueshift (04/12/08 05:46 PM)
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#217843 - 04/13/08 04:41 PM Re: Is there a god........???.........who cares [Re: blueshift]
Darren Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/12/07
Posts: 120
Loc: The High Seas
The idea of a Kingdom of Heaven, where we will all be subjects to a benevolent God, is actually somewhat replusive to me now. I can't seem to grasp that we exist just to serve an almighty Creator, like we are marionettes in His own private puppet show. I'd much rather think of myself as an independent being. And if, per chance, I'm wrong, then I'm at no great disadvantage, I don't believe; as I find the idea of voluntarily subjecting myself to an eternity of subservience to a God that demands obedience in all things, besides being very unattractive, to be somewhat contrary to what He has ostensibly endowed me with, which is that sense of independence. And if such a God would banish me to Hell for such superior thoughts, for thoughts He has suppodedly given me , well, so be it then... but I don't think this will be the case, as I think the chances are good that God and Heaven (and likewise Hell and the Devil) don't really exist.

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“Now and then we had a hope that if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates” -Mark Twain

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#217846 - 04/13/08 05:19 PM Re: Is there a god........???.........who cares [Re: Darren]
Freedom49 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 2723
Loc: Washington State
Interesting perspective Darren. I have come to a slightly different conclusion. Perhaps erroneosly but I believe that God does not in fact want mindless sbuservience.

I agree with you that he gave us independance of mind and thought. I think he wants us to have more of a father son relaionship with him. That was a tough one for me to come to given that my earthly Father was a VERY poor example of that. But in studying and reading some of CS Lewis's writings I think I understand where God might have been going.

He gives us our intelligence and will, and an internal code of behavior (knowlege of right and wrong), and asks us, of our own free will to follow it and be the best we can be.

It was a gamble. There are many whom he knew would say forget that I will do what I want to do and what will make me happy. But he knew there would be some that would eventually see the wisdom of those codes and follow them with the faith that there was a purpose and a reward for eventually doing so. Here with health and long life, and after we die with a place in his world and his home.

One of those many rewards is a relationship and fellowship with the Father God himself right here and now. I believe those will be the ones when they die that will be going "home" to be with DAD. Those who reject his code and live only to please themselves will be left to themselves. They themselves reject "home" as a place that they would not be comfortable in at all.

It is somewhat more complicated than what I have mentioned here in reality but for the sake of discussion that is pretty much how I understand the basics if it. In my opinion.


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#217863 - 04/13/08 06:22 PM Re: Is there a god........???.........who cares *DELETED* [Re: thecoopstah]
awakening Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/01/08
Posts: 342
Post deleted by awakening


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#217913 - 04/13/08 09:58 PM Re: Is there a god........???.........who cares [Re: awakening]
dannym Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/24/07
Posts: 543
Loc: Boulder, Colorado
I respectfully disagree, Gregory. I do not cheat. I try not to lie. I try not to hurt. I do not believe in God. I believe in being kind and peaceful because it makes for a better world... and since I do not believe in an afterlife, I want this world to be the best place it can be.

I do not believe in God... and EVERYTHING matters because I believe in me and making a positive difference in the lives of each person I meet... I don't need the reward of eternal bliss or the threat of eternal damnation... I do it because it feels good... I like love better than hate.

Hope I did not offend. I celebrate everyone's beliefs as personal and very sacred - these are just mine.

love
Dan

_________________________
"You should listen to your heart, and not the voices in your head."

Marge Simpson

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#217918 - 04/13/08 10:07 PM Re: Is there a god........???.........who cares [Re: dannym]
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 11112
Loc: Denver, CO
Dan,

I see no offense at all. You were being honest about where you stand without singling out a particular group.

Andy

_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

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