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#216574 - 04/08/08 04:28 PM Is there a God? TRIGGER WARNING
Darren Offline
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Registered: 02/12/07
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The de>
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“Now and then we had a hope that if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates” -Mark Twain

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#216579 - 04/08/08 04:49 PM Re: Is there a God? TRIGGER WARNING [Re: Darren]
MarkK Offline
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Darren,

Thank you for the post - I congratulate you on your ability to open yourself so clearly to us.

As a gay Christian, I can only respond with empathy towards the pain you've gone through seeking acceptance, then finding it only to have it ripped away.

There is a place in the Bible where Peter dreams about eating various types of meat. When he questions God, God responds with "don't call unclean what I call clean". (Acts 10:9-16) Peter would soon be speaking to a Gentile (heathen - kinda like the Christian world views Gays/Lesbians/etc now ...).

Later we read Paul stating that if it is a sin for your brother to eat meat but not you, then you may eat it. He should not, for it would be a sin for him to do so. (Romans 14) We are then reminded not to take our liberties in a way that can cause others to stumble. (Romans 14:21)

I see being gay in the same manner as anything else. If you believe in your heart what you are doing is wrong - then you shouldn't be doing it because you will only beat yourself up with guilt and shame. I do not, however, believe God condemns being gay.

Just my own 2 cents worth.

Again, I want to thank you for your honest and open explanation of not only what you believe, but how you came to that place.

M

PS - I too have lost a bunch of "Christian friends" over the same issue - and may lose more yet. What matters to me is - I have not lost God, nor has He let go of me.

"For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." (Romans 8:38,39 - NAS)


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#216603 - 04/08/08 06:17 PM Re: Is there a God? TRIGGER WARNING [Re: MarkK]
Darren Offline
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Mark,

Thank you! I appreciate your thoughts and comments. It means a lot to me that you would read through my very long post and reply so thoughtfully, all the more so because it was a hard post to write.

You've given me some things to think about.

Thanks again!

-Darren

_________________________
“Now and then we had a hope that if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates” -Mark Twain

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#216663 - 04/08/08 10:05 PM Re: Is there a God? TRIGGER WARNING [Re: Darren]
richie Offline
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Darren,that was quite a story and certainly well expressed. From what I have come to understand from gods word the bible is expressed in 1 corinthians 6;9-11 What?,do you not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit Gods kingdon? It goes on to mention these unrighteous things like adultery, thievery, greed, drunkiness, nor men who lie with men;meaning the sex relations between men. I understand that to practice these thing is the thing that is what god doesnt approve of or accept.Yet the>
_________________________
Search through me,O God,and know my heart. Examine me,and know my disquieting thoughts,and see whether there is in me any painful way,And lead me in the way of time indefinite. Psalm 139:23,24

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#216666 - 04/08/08 10:11 PM Re: Is there a God? TRIGGER WARNING [Re: Darren]
WalkingSouth Offline
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Originally Posted By: Darren
A friend, even a Christian fried who is only your friend if you believe in God and promise not to fall into your old sinful ways

In my opinion, such a "Christian" is not as in tune with the namesake of the religion as they claim to be.

Christ spent his time associating with those who were despised by the religious elite. Those same elite had him crucified at the hands of the Romans. If he were here today I believe he would still be spending his time with those of today who are also despised by the religious elite no matter who they may be, and he would again find himself in dutch with the religious elite. IMO.

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#216671 - 04/08/08 10:21 PM Re: Is there a God? TRIGGER WARNING [Re: richie]
MarkK Offline
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Originally Posted By: richie
From what I have come to understand from gods word the bible is expressed in 1 corinthians 6;9-11 What?,do you not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit Gods kingdon? It goes on to mention these unrighteous things like adultery, thievery, greed, drunkiness, nor men who lie with men;meaning the sex relations between men.


There are many scholars who have said the greek in that passage mentions "immature boys or male prostitutes" and "those who defile themselves with male prostitutes". I have also read that of the 2 or 3 greek words that specifically mean "homosexual" - Paul uses none of them.

I am by no means an expert. The little bit of greek studies I had in Bible College will not answer the true meaning of every word as it was used during that period. However, I do think this is a good reason we need to be careful when we read a transliterations of the>

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#216672 - 04/08/08 10:22 PM Re: Is there a God? TRIGGER WARNING [Re: richie]
richie Offline
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Darren,con't.. So to me being approved by God means that I reconize what he doesn't approve of if we are to worship him in a clean state. Once I have accepted Jesus and dedicate my self to God then make daily supplication for forgiveness of sins i endeavor to walk the narrow path. Doing so doesn't mean I will not feel lust for men or women or feel the desire to steal or get drunk,these are always there for we are imperfect. I too have these every day,yet I soon hope to live here on this earth in paradise under the rulership of Jesus Christ in his kingdom rule and these wrong desires we no longer be there especialy the ones I have due to CSA. Revelation 21:3'4 Isaiah 65:17 God Bless.

_________________________
Search through me,O God,and know my heart. Examine me,and know my disquieting thoughts,and see whether there is in me any painful way,And lead me in the way of time indefinite. Psalm 139:23,24

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#216694 - 04/09/08 12:03 AM Re: Is there a God? TRIGGER WARNING [Re: MarkK]
richie Offline
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true. but I have the understanding of the act to lie down with to mean to have sexual relations as expressed throughout the bible when it speaks of a man with his wife or a virgin ..etc.. any ways god loves us despite our sinfull tendencies and doesn't condemn us but wants all to work good towards all and fight the fine fight of rightiouness . This I have to work at and pray about constantly yet I am happy and this gives me hope.thanks for your knowlegable imput.

_________________________
Search through me,O God,and know my heart. Examine me,and know my disquieting thoughts,and see whether there is in me any painful way,And lead me in the way of time indefinite. Psalm 139:23,24

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#216699 - 04/09/08 12:22 AM Re: Is there a God? TRIGGER WARNING [Re: richie]
Freedom49 Offline
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If I am understanding all I am reading here then I have to agree with you all. As I understand it God loves us all Just as we are. He does not ask us to stop doing what we are doing and clean up our act and then present ourselves for his love and acceptance. I believe it is his love and acceptance that empowers us to unite wtih him and it is his strength and his love that he gives us that enables us to become the men we are created to be. If I try to become righteous I will miss God altogether. If I reach out for God he will accept me and I will become over time what he needs me to be. He knows I am dust and weak. I cannot change on my own. I must have his help. That is the Gospel. IMO



Edited by Freedom49 (04/09/08 12:23 AM)

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#216742 - 04/09/08 03:59 AM Re: Is there a God? TRIGGER WARNING [Re: Darren]
dking777 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Darren

Nevertheless, and despite the quote in my signature that alludes to a belief in God, today I cannot reconcile my disappointment with this group, with Christians in general, and my homosexuality.

If there exists a Christian God, either homosexuality is a sin or it isn't.

I certainly can't tell which god is the right god, and he isn't talking to me about it.

Thanks for reading!


If Christ were here there is one thing he would not be -- a Christian. -- Mark Twain, Notebook




Edited by dking777 (10/25/09 01:09 AM)
_________________________
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half an hour before the devil knows you're dead.

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#216745 - 04/09/08 04:53 AM Re: Is there a God? TRIGGER WARNING [Re: dking777]
GateKPR4 Offline
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This is my view and by no means is it meant to be an attack on organized religion or any one belief system.

For myself anyway I believe in faith. Faith in what I'm not sure, Faith I can heal from my past. Faith in anything positive will probably bring positive results, and I think that is more due to the human brain chemistry than an almighty being randomly healing those worthy of his gift. I think we are pretty ignorant of the power of the human brain and what it can do. After all this world is just our perception of it as we experienced it. Change your perception and change your world.
I have had one near death experience but I did not meet a god. What it was I do not know and I have interpreted it in many ways.
I believe it was a safe place my mind created for me while the trauma of my body healed from the toxic condition it was in.

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#216906 - 04/09/08 07:20 PM Re: Is there a God? TRIGGER WARNING [Re: GateKPR4]
Darren Offline
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Some very sincere and thoughtful comments here... thank you for your thoughts, everyone!... You have given me more to think about.

-Darren



_________________________
“Now and then we had a hope that if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates” -Mark Twain

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#217021 - 04/10/08 08:05 AM Re: Is there a God? TRIGGER WARNING [Re: Darren]
Darren Offline
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Now that I've had time to think about the comments here to my original post, I wanted to respond to your thoughts.

Mark: I'm sorry that you, too, have lost many of your Chistian friends as have I. This is sad. As to your other comments, I appreciate your Bible references, as I have turned to the 'good book' many a time for comfort and guidance in the past. Although it's been gathering dust for quite a while now, you inspired me to to take it off the shelf and look up those quotes. This brought back some bitter-sweet memories. I find it fascinating that simply feeling guilty about something would make something a sin for one person but not another: "But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith" -Romans 14:23. This would beg the question, what else might not be considered sinful if it is done 'from faith'? Is murder a sin, if it is done 'from faith'? Someone could justify murder by thinking the other person is evil, and needs to die, thereby doing it 'from faith'... this is probably what motivates a lot of serial killers. And then what of the CSA perps? Maybe some of them do what they do 'from faith', believing it is their right, that their child is their property to do with as they please. This certainly seems to be the case in Texas, where girls as young as 13 and 14 were being spiritually married to men of the church and then habitually raped and beaten. Certainly these men were doing what they were doing 'from faith', therefore not sinful in God's eyes?

Richie: Yes, I have read I Corinthians 6:9-11 many a time, and have struggled with the meaning of it. It is interesting that in my version of the New International Version it refers to 'male prostitutes' and 'homosexual offenders' where the New Catholic Edition refers to 'the effeminate' and 'sodomties' as not possessing the kingdom of God. Volumes have been written about this, and there is no definitive consensus, as far as I can tell, about what is really being referred to. In fact, there is so much variation in these verses between just these two bibles it makes my head spin! Which interpretation, if any, do I believe?

WalkingSouth: Yes, I believe those Christian 'friends' of mine were not in tune with the namesake of their religion. This seems to be the rule rather than the exception, though.

Freedom49: Your God is a God I would like to believe in: One who is all loving and accepting, nonjudgmental.

dking777: Your testimony was the most intriguing to me. Your experience is fascinating to read, and if there is a God and heaven I would also want it to be like you have described. Thank you for taking the time to respond at length, and to include so many references and links.

GakeKpr: I think I believe more as you do. I think the brain is more powerful than we know, and has ways of changing our perception of reality in order to protect us from ourselves, as is the case with CSA and the dissociation many of us experience in that regard. I believe also the mind can manufacture visions and religious experiences as a way of protecting us as well. If we feel we have nothing to live for, our mind can manufacture a religious experience to give our life meaning. I believe this is what happened to me.

As I told a Christian friend of mine not too long ago, I just don't think I believe in any of it anymore. I hold out little hope of ever rejoining the fold; short of God knocking on my door and telling me that yes, it is true after all. My Christian friend told me that faith really is the key; if you don't have faith, you can't have a belief in God. But isn't faith just hope, and isn't hope just a gamble, a guess?

I can't live my life based on a guess.

_________________________
“Now and then we had a hope that if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates” -Mark Twain

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#217029 - 04/10/08 09:51 AM Re: Is there a God? TRIGGER WARNING [Re: Darren]
MarkK Offline
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The>

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#217034 - 04/10/08 10:08 AM Re: Is there a God? TRIGGER WARNING [Re: MarkK]
ineffable Offline
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Hi all

This is from another book

"Words reduce reality to something the human mind can grasp, which isn't very much.
Language consists of 5 basic sounds produced by the vocal cords.
They are the vowels a, e, i, o, u.
The other sounds are consonants produced by air pressure: s, f, g and so forth.
Do you believe some combination of such basic sounds could ever explain who you are, or
the ultimate purpose of the universe, or even what a tree or stone is in its depth?"

In the beginning was the Word

Sexuality is God given
As is humanity

nuff said

C



Edited by ineffable (04/10/08 10:51 AM)
_________________________
:: "Anyone who can handle a needle convincingly can make us see a thread which is not there" ::


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#217059 - 04/10/08 01:04 PM Re: Is there a God? TRIGGER WARNING [Re: ineffable]
maxshame Offline
New Here

Registered: 04/10/08
Posts: 5
god is a man made marketing gimmick to promote a certain ideology, organized religions gods are evil hate mongering phony lies. the real God is all knowing and ever present in all our hearts, never judging or condemning.


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#217067 - 04/10/08 01:37 PM Re: Is there a God? TRIGGER WARNING [Re: maxshame]
Freedom49 Offline
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Registered: 12/30/07
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Except for the first phrase to the first comma, I agree with you Maxshame.


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#217199 - 04/10/08 11:12 PM Re: Is there a God? TRIGGER WARNING [Re: Freedom49]
blueshift Offline
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We may possibly be a little shy of this forum, but there are other atheists here as well, and I think we would probably all agree that atheists can be spiritual too.

I think it's a misconception that an atheist has to be a person who believes in nothing and believes that life is an "accident". The fact that I don't believe in a being that in any way resembles humanity who is running the show doesn't mean that I don't believe the universe has an aspect of intelligence and direction.

Anyway, just want to let you know you're not alone.

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#217235 - 04/11/08 01:10 AM Re: Is there a God? TRIGGER WARNING [Re: blueshift]
WalkingSouth Offline
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Originally Posted By: blueshift
I think we would probably all agree that atheists can be spiritual too.

Indeed we can. Spirituality does not necessarily mean one is spiritual with, to, or for a given religion, organized or not. One definition is "Of, or relating to the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things."

I think that pretty much covers the issue you speak of, blueshift, but it goes beyond that as well. To me it also has a meaning of being kind, loving, caring, etc., and possessing within one's heart and mind a sense of the greater purpose of humanity and the universe than just living only for oneself.

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#217314 - 04/11/08 11:31 AM Re: Is there a God? TRIGGER WARNING [Re: blueshift]
Darren Offline
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Originally Posted By: blueshift
just want to let you know you're not alone.



Thanks Blueshift! I'm glad I'm not alone in my thoughts on this topic and that there are others here who feel the same way.

_________________________
“Now and then we had a hope that if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates” -Mark Twain

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#217390 - 04/11/08 05:22 PM Re: Is there a God? TRIGGER WARNING [Re: Darren]
ak Offline
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I think all us can say, we have meet some 'Spiritual' atheists, and some 'Heathen' Christians. Even as I am a member of an organized religion, I do not believe in God because it is what I was taught to do, or because of what I read in a book. And for anyone who preach about an angry or judging God, I do not believe of that. I believe that God make each our spirits, and know very much what way we are oriented, and how we will believe and act in our lives. We are all created in that way, and why would God create someone that He is going to judge and turn away against? It make no point to me.

And as for me, I believe in God because most the time, I greatly feel Him, and when I speak to Him, I feel heard. It just make sense to me that way. But that is not speaking for no one else but me.

Andrei


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#217427 - 04/11/08 08:22 PM Re: Is there a God? TRIGGER WARNING [Re: WalkingSouth]
blueshift Offline
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Originally Posted By: walkingsouth
Originally Posted By: blueshift
I think we would probably all agree that atheists can be spiritual too.

Indeed we can. Spirituality does not necessarily mean one is spiritual with, to, or for a given religion, organized or not. One definition is "Of, or relating to the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things."

I think that pretty much covers the issue you speak of, blueshift, but it goes beyond that as well. To me it also has a meaning of being kind, loving, caring, etc., and possessing within one's heart and mind a sense of the greater purpose of humanity and the universe than just living only for oneself.


I'm going to assume you didn't intend what it sounds as if you are implying here...it's ok. I say things too that come across the wrong way because of the wording I use, but I do hope that you weren't actually saying that my concept of spirituality does not cover that which you mentioned in the last paragraph, because if you were, then it would seem my business to ask why you would assume such a thing about me. But I'm sure it was just a poor choice of wording creating an unintentional implication.

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#217431 - 04/11/08 08:46 PM Re: Is there a God? TRIGGER WARNING [Re: blueshift]
WalkingSouth Offline
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Blue,

No, I was not intending to imply that and don't believe I did, but if the jury says my wording was such that it came across thusly, I'll bow to their judgment and offer to all, and especially you, my humble apology. It definitely was not my intent. My intent was quite the opposite.

The written word used as conversation lacks certain verbal and visual clues that would adequately convey a person's meaning. Lacking those clues, it is even more important for those using this medium of communication to be crystal clear in their communication. Apparently I failed on this one. Thanks for pointing it out.

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#217454 - 04/11/08 10:07 PM Re: Is there a God? TRIGGER WARNING [Re: WalkingSouth]
blueshift Offline
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Well,I won't argue about whether the implication was made by the wording or not...the only issue for me is whether it was intentional or not, and since it wasn't, there's no harm done.
And if in fact I was being unreasonable in my hearing that implication, then let me be the one to apologize.

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My Story
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#217481 - 04/12/08 12:13 AM Re: Is there a God? TRIGGER WARNING [Re: blueshift]
FormerTexan Offline
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maxshame,

I can tell you for certain, your opinion is man-made.



_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

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#217505 - 04/12/08 01:48 AM Re: Is there a God? TRIGGER WARNING [Re: Darren]
dking777 Offline
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Registered: 03/17/08
Posts: 94
Loc: CA
Originally Posted By: Darren
My Christian friend told me that faith really is the key; if you don't have faith, you can't have a belief in God. But isn't faith just hope, and isn't hope just a gamble, a guess? I can't live my life based on a guess.


I have been on my own quest for documents that supports the understanding I have within me.



Edited by dking777 (10/25/09 01:09 AM)
_________________________
And may you be in heaven
half an hour before the devil knows you're dead.

Bittersweet Symphony

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#217514 - 04/12/08 04:56 AM Re: Is there a God? TRIGGER WARNING [Re: Darren]
dking777 Offline
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Registered: 03/17/08
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Loc: CA
Originally Posted By: Darren
The de>


Edited by dking777 (10/25/09 01:08 AM)
_________________________
And may you be in heaven
half an hour before the devil knows you're dead.

Bittersweet Symphony

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#217552 - 04/12/08 11:42 AM Re: Is there a God? TRIGGER WARNING [Re: dking777]
thecoopstah Offline
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Registered: 07/19/04
Posts: 589
Loc: massachusetts
I THINK I"M GOING TO BE SICK

IF ...IF...IF there was a god why would he allow such horror and catastrophic tragedies go on and on and on and on in this world and yet nothing whatsoever is done until........until it's to late then "you" hear the famous line " i didn't see that or this coming"

Give me a break....i'm not so sure anymore if there is a god i am to fuckin pissed at him right now and have been for awhile although i do have my days that i think i believe yet i have other days X happens and i revert back to survival of self.

Who knows maybe this is one of "those" days.


Coop

PS: please dont tell me now i am not entitled to my opinion or have the choice to use my voice.

_________________________
" You never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have "

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#217553 - 04/12/08 11:45 AM Re: Is there a God? TRIGGER WARNING [Re: thecoopstah]
FormerTexan Offline
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If there is no God, then how can one be angry with Him? I never understood why people say this. How can one be angry with what they believe or suspect to be non-existent?

_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

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#217981 - 04/14/08 03:10 AM Re: Is there a God? TRIGGER WARNING [Re: dking777]
endlessjourney Offline
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Loc: Cincinnati Ohio
My friend, I also grew up in a Catholic upbringing and I can relate to what you're saying entirely. You say that, the ideals of what is "evil" and what is not is closely judged by all of those Christian "cultists" or however you see it. I can relate and I understand what your talking about.

This is not a knock on any religion. However, some religious followers tend to put labels on people. Some of these individuals are affraid of stirring up the dirt on the bottom of the stream. If an issue that comes about causes them to question their faith and their own character, some tend to shun it and pass judgement on the person who brings forth the issue, thus, writing the person off and getting themselves out of the equation. It's an easy way out, instead of dealing with whatever potential issues they may have within themselves.

It would be stereotypical to look at someone of the Christian faith as someone who would judge you and follow these horrible behaviors. However, a lot of them (not just Christians in particular) do tend to follow suite for fear of being judged as buying into the Devil's works and questioning whether or not the issue of homosexuality is an argument of "good and evil", or just an issue that a person goes through.

The fact is, that you are going through that issue. You are who you are. You may be homosexual, you may not. If you believe in God, one would think that God made you that way for a reason. Those individuals are in no position to judge you. They are not the God you speak of. Not to get too political on this standpoint, but my perspective is that, whatever God is watching me in life, would respect what I'm going through and would not judge me through others. What goes on between God is between me and God. If, judgement day comes, I don't think I'd see a bunch of other religious "preachers" sitting next to him or her like a jury telling God, "you should toss this one to the hounds of hell".

It sounds as if those that have judged you have multiple insecurities of their own and are running from them by hiding behind a banner that says, "I speak for God".

Just some food for thought. It is your choice what you make of it.

Much love,
Jason

_________________________
Truth is the very reason we strive to live. It surrounds and resides within us. Accepting the truths we already know and seeking out those we do not is a direct path to inner balance and joy. For life is not a means to an end, but a journey. Life comes and goes but the truth will always live on.

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#218038 - 04/14/08 12:17 PM Re: Is there a God? TRIGGER WARNING [Re: endlessjourney]
VLinvictus Offline
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The question of "believing in God" or being an "atheist" is rather difficult for me.

I would say that I believe in "God," but the way that I define "God" probably makes me more or less an atheist.

Anyway, our beliefs about God say more about ourselves than they do about God.

Text-based religions like Judaism and Christianity have are based on documents, yes -- but these documents are often vague and cryptic and open to numerous interpretations. The Torah or the Gospels are just lifeless books without people -- a community -- to read, study, interpet, and live them. That gap between the text and its application -- the human element in revelation -- gives tremendous power to the individual.

In Judaism, we have the teaching that the Torah is no longer in heaven -- its in our hands to do and to teach (and to interpret it and change it as necessary). Catholic Christians (Roman, Orthodox, and Anglican) have the evolving Sacred Tradition that supplements and explains the Scriptures. Even sola>
_________________________
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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#441565 - 07/21/13 01:57 AM Re: Is there a God? TRIGGER WARNING [Re: Darren]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3018
Loc: O Kanada
most of the people i have met that condemn gays and shun them using scripture have probably forgotten a few key bible passages.

they like to quote
Leviticus 20:13
"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination."

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
"Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."

Romans 1:26-27
"For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error."


but they themselves are in violation of several of god's laws and commandments.

Romans 3:23
"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God."

we need to remember the commandments.

Leviticus 19:18
"Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD."

Matthew 22:36-40
“Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?”
Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’
This is the first and great commandment.
And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’
On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

John 14:21
"Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them."

and quite often the god loving gay haters i talk to are hardcore heteros who fornicate as often as they can to prove their masculinity through promiscuity and adultery and immorality and pornography.

Matthew 5:28
"But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

Exodus 20:14
"You shall not commit adultery."

1 Corinthians 6:18
"Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body."

Galatians 5:16
"But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh."

1 Thessalonians 4:3-5
"For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you abstain from sexual immorality; that each one of you know how to control his own body in holiness and honor, not in the passion of lust like the Gentiles who do not know God."

1 John 2:16
"For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride in possessions—is not from the Father but is from the world."

Galatians 5:19-21
"Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God."

Galatians 6:8
"For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life."

1 Peter 2:11
"Beloved, I urge you as sojourners and exiles to abstain from the passions of the flesh, which wage war against your soul."

James 1:14-15
"But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death."


i think we should all take another look at
Matthew 7:1-5

"Judge not, that ye be not judged.

For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
"


in closing, i won't tell you what kind of sinner i am,
but you can be 100% certain that i am a sinner.
that makes me unfit to judge any other person.
and only my creator can judge me.

whatever someone does is between them and god.

Deuteronomy 32:35
"It is mine to avenge; I will repay. In due time their foot will slip; their day of disaster is near and their doom rushes upon them."

Hebrews 10:30
"For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people."

Romans 12:19
"Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord."

as far as answering the question...
Is there a god?
that is for you to decide.
i have made up my mind.

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