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#215404 - 04/04/08 05:37 PM The Blessing (***Religious Triggers***)
MarkK Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2503
Loc: Denver, CO
.



Edited by MarkK (04/16/08 02:17 PM)

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#215480 - 04/05/08 12:23 AM Re: The Blessing (***Religious Triggers***) [Re: MarkK]
dancr6 Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/02/07
Posts: 383
Loc: georgia
No doubt, your one of the blessed Mark!!

_________________________
I'm a freeman now, his authority's dead
no pain monger lies in my comfortable bed!

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#215492 - 04/05/08 12:57 AM Re: The Blessing (***Religious Triggers***) [Re: dancr6]
Freedom49 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 2723
Loc: Washington State
I got a similar answer Mark.

And then one time I ask HIM in anguish after a particularly tough temptation and failure.

"What are you trying to do to me? Push me to my limits?"

He answered immediately and plainly " No, I am trying to get you not to set any".

And so my journey continured.



Edited by Freedom49 (04/05/08 12:58 AM)

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#216119 - 04/07/08 11:49 AM Re: The Blessing (***Religious Triggers***) [Re: dancr6]
MarkK Offline
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Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2503
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: dancr6
No doubt, your one of the blessed Mark!!

That would mean "truly strong" ... i dunno about that.

Originally Posted By: freedom49
He answered immediately and plainly " No, I am trying to get you not to set any".

Not set any ... somehow that leaves me with as many questions as it answers. Not setting any limits sounds too much like not setting any boundaries. But maybe that's just me ...

M


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#216121 - 04/07/08 11:52 AM Re: The Blessing (***Religious Triggers***) [Re: MarkK]
Freedom49 Offline
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Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 2723
Loc: Washington State
Well, do you trust him or don't you....... That is what I felt he was asking me. So far his track record has been 100%. Hmmmm



Edited by Freedom49 (04/07/08 11:53 AM)

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#216128 - 04/07/08 11:59 AM Re: The Blessing (***Religious Triggers***) [Re: Freedom49]
MarkK Offline
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Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2503
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: Freedom49
Well, do you trust him or don't you......

It's not an issue of trusting Him. It's an issue of knowing whether or not i am hearing Him and not my own desires.

M


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#216134 - 04/07/08 12:12 PM Re: The Blessing (***Religious Triggers***) [Re: MarkK]
Freedom49 Offline
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Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 2723
Loc: Washington State
Yeah been there. I do get that.


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#216355 - 04/07/08 11:03 PM Re: The Blessing (***Religious Triggers***) [Re: Freedom49]
MarkK Offline
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Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2503
Loc: Denver, CO
...and?
how do you deal with it??

M


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#216360 - 04/07/08 11:16 PM Re: The Blessing (***Religious Triggers***) [Re: MarkK]
Freedom49 Offline
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Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 2723
Loc: Washington State
Well, I listen to him. He tells me what I am doing wrong in several different ways. I read what he says in the Bible. I know some feel that is archiac and written by men but I have a hunch he has ways of getting his idesa in print fairly accurately being God and all. Second, There is a kind of sense or feeing that you get from being close to God that just tells you this is not a good idea. You can ignore or override it of course. But if you really want to know and stop long enough to listen it is there. Thrid and probably last with a grain of salt. I listen to the judgement and advice from people who I respect and feel that have a closer relationship with him. Between all of that and finally talking with him directly I can get pretty darn close. I will have to warn you though. In all fairness, his will is usually the thing I least want to do.

By the way, I was listening to radio on a long drive today and the song Desperado by the Eagles came on and as I listened to the words I could not help thinking of you. They are actually posted here somewhere, I think teen forum in a song lyrics post.

This probably does not help you. but I felt I owed you an honest answer.


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#216363 - 04/07/08 11:23 PM Re: The Blessing (***Religious Triggers***) [Re: Freedom49]
MarkK Offline
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Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2503
Loc: Denver, CO
and i thank you for your honest answer. i wouldn't say you do that much different than me. i also believe, being God, he can get his ideas written down pretty easily. but when a word has 3 or for meanings in the original language - who decides which one was actualy intended?

"Desperado" made you think about me? Hmmm - that i'm gonna have to check on. My memory doesn't see the connection - maybe refreshing the lyrics will. Was there a specific part of the lyrics? (you can PM it to me if you prefer)

M

PS I don't look for answers to always "help" me - just to be honest, and not pointed to hurt me - which yours never are.


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#216570 - 04/08/08 04:01 PM Re: The Blessing (***Religious Triggers***) [Re: MarkK]
MarkK Offline
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Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2503
Loc: Denver, CO
ok - i've listened to Desperado again - still not getting the connection - must be an individualistic thing \:\)

M


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#216571 - 04/08/08 04:12 PM Re: The Blessing (***Religious Triggers***) [Re: MarkK]
Freedom49 Offline
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Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 2723
Loc: Washington State
Must be..just a thoght


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#216573 - 04/08/08 04:21 PM Re: The Blessing (***Religious Triggers***) [Re: Freedom49]
MarkK Offline
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Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2503
Loc: Denver, CO
Not a problem - I suppose there could be a link with "You gotta let somebody love you" ... ahhhh - but what's in a song??

\:\)

Thanx again, Roger.

M


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#216576 - 04/08/08 04:40 PM Re: The Blessing (***Religious Triggers***) [Re: MarkK]
JustScott Offline
Greeter Emeritus
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Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 2589
Hey Mark!

You asked a question about words with 3 different meanings in the original language. There are several ways to try and figure it out. When I was in college I was taught proper Biblical interpretation. It starts with a verse. After reviewing a verse, you look at the verses around it. If your interpretation of the verse seems to fit the passage around it, then look at the whole chapter. If it still fits the chapter, look at the whole book. Then the whole of the Bible. If it fits all of those, you can have a fairly good chance that your understanding is correct. If at any point, your interpretation is found to be in disagreement at any of those levels, you should go back to the beginning and see if there is another way to understand what you're reading.

Does that mean you're still going to have times where a few different things fit? Sure, it happens. In some areas the Greek and Hebrew languages have many more words that fit specific areas where we in English have only 1 or 2. It can be difficult. Which is where the work of the Spirit comes in. Add prayer to that and ask for God's direction. The closer you get to God, the more you'll be able to recognize His voice. I've never heard an audible voice, but there are times I have definitely felt His presence. It's an amazing experience.

I know from reading other places, that you are struggling right now. It's hard. I have some of those same struggles. Sometimes they are very difficult. Keep in mind that yes, God made you Fearfully and Wonderfully, but we're all affected by sin. We have a sin nature. Paul put it this way: The flesh hates God and seeks to serve only itself, the Spirit loves God and wants to do His will. So where does that leave you? It leaves you with your Mind. You have Body, Mind, Spirit. The Body pulls you one way, the Spirit another. I think that is why Joshua said "Choose this Day Whom you will Serve!" It comes down to a choice of the mind. Are we going to follow the leading of the Body and it's desires, or are we going to follow the leading of the Spirit. Is it an easy choice? Not at all. It's a constant battle and it's tough!

Hang in there man! Seek God, He promises you will find Him! Even during those storms and troubles. Remember, when Job was struggling, it was out of the storm that God spoke! Got never reprimanded Job for questioning Him! I think the worst thing any spiritual leader can say is that we should never question God. I think God wants us to question. If we don't, how can we truly know Him?

Why do we have these struggles? I don't know all those answers, but look up 1 Peter 1:6-7.

Don't give up the good fight man! I'm here for you!



Edited by JustScott (04/08/08 04:41 PM)

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#216584 - 04/08/08 05:07 PM Re: The Blessing (***Religious Triggers***) [Re: JustScott]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2503
Loc: Denver, CO
Thanx, JS. As you said - we are promised if we seek God we will find Him. And I have found Him. Many times. And I have heard His voice (even audibly once).

He is walking me through Romans right now - and bringing me closer to Him and, I believe, closer to His heart on these matters.

Somedays are difficult. Some are nearly impossible. But I will continue on for I know He in whom I believe, and I know He is able, even when I am not.

Thank you again.

M


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#216588 - 04/08/08 05:27 PM Re: The Blessing (***Religious Triggers***) [Re: MarkK]
JustScott Offline
Greeter Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 2589
I love Romans! My absolute favorite among all the Letters of Paul. Good stuff in there. I've got a whole book on it if you have any questions :-)

I've always wondered how I'd react to "hearing" God's voice. I gotta tell ya, I did feel God touch me once. It was in one of the worst times in the recent years of my life. I remember I was sitting on the floor all alone. No one else was even home. Then I felt someone behind me. They put their arms around me and hugged me. It was one of the best feelings I've had in my entire life.


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#216634 - 04/08/08 08:02 PM Re: The Blessing (***Religious Triggers***) [Re: MarkK]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
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Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Mark,

Originally Posted By: MarkK
but when a word has 3 or for meanings in the original language - who decides which one was actualy intended?


This is in fact a huge problem in the study of the Bible, especially the OT, in which fully 20% of the words occur only once. That is, a word may mean a "bowl", a "silo", or a "handful", since the Hebrew root has to do with round containers and the word in question occurs only once in the OT and nowhere else in any other text. That's why using the King James Version is such a bad idea, despite its beauty. Biblical scholarship and the comparative study of the Semitic languages has come a long way since then.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#216638 - 04/08/08 08:09 PM Re: The Blessing (***Religious Triggers***) [Re: roadrunner]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Mark,

I thought I would keep the rest of my comment separate. I don't know if this will be at all helpful, but I don't think a religious gay man should feel obliged to agonize over his sexuality, though sure, I get it why he does so. Did you ask to be gay? I rather doubt it. You just are - it's a part of who you are as Mark. This is part of how you start out in your effort to lead a good life, and if anyone gets that point, surely God does.

If intolerant religious extremists don't see things this way, let it be their problem; that is, after all, what it is. They might say they adhere to the literal word of God, but is that really true? Not really. They adhere to the literal text of the Bible when it suits them, and pass over the rest in silence.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#217381 - 04/11/08 04:48 PM Re: The Blessing (***Religious Triggers***) [Re: roadrunner]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2503
Loc: Denver, CO
when my "friends" from church are gone
because they couldn't come to terms with who i am
it may be their problem

but i'm still the one left behind

and it still hurts


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#217383 - 04/11/08 05:04 PM Re: The Blessing (***Religious Triggers***) [Re: MarkK]
KENKEN Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/25/07
Posts: 762
Loc: NOTHERN COLORADO
I know that God is not responsible for our personal thoughts or desires. And I know that he is also sad and crying with us as we deal with everything that happens in our lives. My perverse thughts and desires make me sick, I have no idea why I think and feel and sometimes act out the way I do. I just know it is wrong and it really is not me, Ken. But I still do it.

I don't know why we are so tempted to what is wrong. I just know that it is hard to do right. I just believe that God does forgive me over and over again. He knows better than me that this world is so f...k'd up. I know I am forgiven, guess that is why when I fail I always get up and try harder to do what God wants me to do.

Nothing knew here, just my 2 cents worth. Now, I gotta do what my morals and values tell me to do. Not what my perverse mind wants me to do.

Ken

_________________________
I AM A GOOD PERSON, I AM A GOOD MAN

From the Movie: Antwone Fisher

***WOR ALUMNI SEQUOIA MARCH 2008***

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#217388 - 04/11/08 05:16 PM Re: The Blessing (***Religious Triggers***) [Re: KENKEN]
Freedom49 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 2723
Loc: Washington State
I think the true test of character is doing what we know to be right in our hearts before God. It really does not matter how we get here or what kind of desires we end up saddled with. I thought for a long time I was born gay. In the end I realized it didn't matter. I made a committment to my wife and a vow before God. I will honor that vow and committment regardless of how I feel or what desires I have. When I settled on that choice there was a gradual peace that came to me and a strength to follow through with that. I never had that before. I have not regretted that decision either. There is something about doing the right thing that is wonderfully calming and peace giving. Can't speak for anyone else but I know it was right for me.


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#217389 - 04/11/08 05:19 PM Re: The Blessing (***Religious Triggers***) [Re: Freedom49]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2503
Loc: Denver, CO
"doing the right thing"
there's a good question
is "doing the right thing" for you the same as "doing the right thing" for me?
or do circumstances change "the right thing"

??


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