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#215324 - 04/04/08 10:26 AM
Re: Sex Offender Recidivism
[Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
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Member MaleSurvivor
Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 683
Loc: Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
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What an interesting article!
One question I wish were addressed was how does the age of the offender when entering treatment affect the recitivism. If you catch it when they are young, is it highly curable? If you don't and wait until they are 20, 30, 40, is it quite difficult?
With 50 percent of the public believing that treatment for sex offenders is ineffective, it certainly must impact funding. We could all help that by speaking out in favor of more research and funding on such therapies.
_________________________
Et par le pouvoir d’un mot Je recommence ma vie, Je suis né pour te connaître, Pour te nommer Liberté
And by the power of a single word I can begin my life again, I was born to know you, to name you Freedom
Paul Eluard
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#217741 - 04/13/08 02:50 AM
Re: Sex Offender Recidivism
[Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
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Guest
Registered: 03/30/08
Posts: 92
Loc: Florida
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I'm sure I'm bitter and angry, but in my opinion once a perp always a perp. You may not actually commit a crime, but you may consider and fantisize about it, and may simply be prevented by a fear of prison, probation, registration etc. I have no sympthaty for a one-time offender.Honestly do I want my tax money going to pay for Johnny Perp to "get better" so he can lead a worthless life on unemployment and welfare? I'll give 27 cents to perp rehab, 27 cents, enough to buy a bullet.
_________________________
Neither fear nor courage saves us. Unnatural vices Are fathered by our heroism. Virtues Are forced upon us by our impudent crimes. These tears are shaken from the wrath-bearing tree. ~T.S. Eliot~
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#217787 - 04/13/08 09:13 AM
Re: Sex Offender Recidivism
[Re: USFbull]
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Member MaleSurvivor
Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 683
Loc: Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
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Never mind he is 12 or 18 years old, has never know sex except incest by his father since age 6, has acted out and never received therapy or been believed about the incest...
_________________________
Et par le pouvoir d’un mot Je recommence ma vie, Je suis né pour te connaître, Pour te nommer Liberté
And by the power of a single word I can begin my life again, I was born to know you, to name you Freedom
Paul Eluard
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#217788 - 04/13/08 09:14 AM
Re: Sex Offender Recidivism
[Re: USFbull]
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Member MaleSurvivor
Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 1236
Loc: Baltimore, Maryland
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OK we'll follow your plan, USF, and then abuse will continue in the world without end. But hey, at least we got vengeance. That's all that matters, right?
_________________________
Life's disappointments are harder to take when you don't know any swear words. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)
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#217796 - 04/13/08 10:09 AM
Re: Sex Offender Recidivism
[Re: USFbull]
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Member MaleSurvivor
Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 5974
Loc: A NATO Nation
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I'll give 27 cents to perp rehab, 27 cents, enough to buy a bullet. WHAT?.......................................................................................................WHAT????? What if the offender is 12 years old????like my perps were when they raped me (I was 7.5). I still have not forgiven them, but I can see that 12 yos dont just do that without some history behind them. Would I call for their death? HELL NO!!!! Can we stop the infantile linch-mob posturing here at MS? Take your violence to the NAMBLA site where you might actually scare a perp....cuz you are not impressing anyone here.
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#217809 - 04/13/08 12:49 PM
Re: Sex Offender Recidivism
[Re: Still]
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Guest
Registered: 03/30/08
Posts: 92
Loc: Florida
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Ok I wasn't attempting to scare anyone and I should of clarified who my comments where directed at. Do I believe in rehabilitation for juvenile perps? Yes, my perp was 8, and I believe he was abused, he never saught help and now works a minimum wage job blowing his life away on pot and alcohol, could rehab of saved him? I think so. I was thinking the 40 year old man that attacks a kid in a public restroom. The upper-middle class socialite they find with thousands of child porn pictures on his computer. My opinion is harsh but logical, a convicted adult sex offender will not economically contribute to society,and the only pedophile thats contributed anything culturally is Elrond Hubbard, who founded the wonderful Church of Scientology (haha). So why should I have to give my money to rehabilitate a 25 year old guy who raped a 14 year old girl? Assuming he is convicted he will never hold a reasonable job or anything of the like, it isn't economically sound. Sorry for the misunderstanding everyone, wrote that post late-night. Once again though I am all for rehabilitation for juveniles.
_________________________
Neither fear nor courage saves us. Unnatural vices Are fathered by our heroism. Virtues Are forced upon us by our impudent crimes. These tears are shaken from the wrath-bearing tree. ~T.S. Eliot~
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#217818 - 04/13/08 01:24 PM
Re: Sex Offender Recidivism
[Re: USFbull]
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Administrator Emeritus MaleSurvivor
Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
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USFbull, I'm sure I'm bitter and angry, but in my opinion once a perp always a perp. You may not actually commit a crime, but you may consider and fantisize about it, and may simply be prevented by a fear of prison, probation, registration etc. I have no sympthaty for a one-time offender.Honestly do I want my tax money going to pay for Johnny Perp to "get better" so he can lead a worthless life on unemployment and welfare? I'll give 27 cents to perp rehab, 27 cents, enough to buy a bullet. You're of course welcome to your opinion. "Free country" and all that. And as we've seen on this site recently you certainly aren't alone. But the point Ken is making is that this view is erroneous. This conclusion is the result of critical investigations by many pioneering researchers, among them Ken himself, who has worked in the field longer than some of us have been alive (sorry Ken!!!  ). One thing I have learned in my own recovery is that nothing is gained by claiming, as you are doing, that "I don't care what the truth is, my opinion is otherwise". This is a sure-fire ticket to getting stuck in years of recriminations and rage that get us nowhere. Dichotomous thinking - viewing the world in terms of black and white with no gray in between - is a trap that derails the recovery of many survivors. Why? Because the inevitable corollary of "them/us" includes such ideas as these: "the abuser is endlessly powerful/I am abysmally weak", "I am not fully healed, therefore my recovery is a failure", "I have acted out, therefore I am no better than a perp", "the abuse could resume at any time (even when the abuser is dead)", etc. I'm not lecturing you; I just say so because I have fallen into such holes myself many times. An absolute key to our recovery is to recognize that abusers are not some demonic "other". They are human beings like us. They have weaknesses that can be addressed in therapy. Their power over us continues only so long as we allow it to continue. Abusers age and become frail old men who no longer know or care who their victims are or what they are doing with their lives. Abusers fear us more than we fear them. The sky will not fall if we disclose to loved ones and friends. I don't mean by any means to excuse what abusers do. I will never forgive those who harmed me. Not ever. Nor do I mean to minimize the impact of abuse. The man who hurt me eventually took everything but my life, and he came close to claiming even that. Nor do I mean to trivialize how hard it is to face the task of recovery. There are still days where I think I will never be able to do this. But my recovery, such as it is, was enriched enormously once I was willing to see the facts as they really are. It is of course comforting to claim the moral high ground, but the time I spent on those lofty heights got me nowhere; it simply wasted my emotional resources and led me into fruitless raging and questioning. If we want to recover and live in happiness and peace in the real world, then it's in the real world that we have to work. Refusing to demonize abusers any longer is basically to break their power over how we think and act. Just some thoughts. As I said, how you view these matters is up to you. But then, you have to live with the consequences. Much love, Larry
_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me As I go walking my freedom highway. Nobody living can make me turn back: This land was made for you and me. (Woody Guthrie)
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#217820 - 04/13/08 01:34 PM
Re: Sex Offender Recidivism
[Re: USFbull]
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Member MaleSurvivor
Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 1236
Loc: Baltimore, Maryland
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Your argument is far from logical. I've worked with several "successful" (whatever your definition is) convicted pedophiles. Authors, computer programmers, etc etc. I've even known a few who have worked for our local chapter of Stop It Now (dot) org -- a national activist group dedicated to ending child abuse.
Why should we give money to rehabilitate? BECAUSE WE WANT CHILD ABUSE TO STOP! You can't just pretend it doesn't exist and hope it goes away -- at least if you expect things to change.
_________________________
Life's disappointments are harder to take when you don't know any swear words. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)
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#217916 - 04/13/08 09:01 PM
Re: Sex Offender Recidivism
[Re: USFbull]
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Administrator Emeritus MaleSurvivor
Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
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USFbull, I don't mean to beat up on you, but here is an example of how problematic things can get when we think of abuse issues too simply, or in terms of the old familiar black and white themes we see repeated over and over again: I was thinking the 40 year old man that attacks a kid in a public restroom. That image of the kid abused by a predatory stranger in a public place is a very common one, and we also see it consecrated in films like Mystic River. But it's a myth. All research shows that in the vast majority of cases (over 90%), boys are abused by people they know and trust (a relative, friend of the family, babysitter, youth group leader, coach, teacher, religious advisor). And the most frequent location for abuse is the boy's own home. Much love, Larry
_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me As I go walking my freedom highway. Nobody living can make me turn back: This land was made for you and me. (Woody Guthrie)
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#218025 - 04/14/08 10:06 AM
Re: Sex Offender Recidivism
[Re: USFbull]
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Member MaleSurvivor
Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6833
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
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I for one, don't have any time for views on retribution. The general public think they are a lynch mob, each time something real bad happens.
If I had to use my valuable resources, e.g., my mental anguish on wanting to lynch perps etc., I would end up as sad as someone like yourself.
None of us are Judges, and you certainly don't fit the category of moral equity. Maybe you should reply to the posters' original aim of the post instead of hi-jacking it,
ste
PS to Larry, I was the kid abused by a total stranger, the 'stereotype', but I still have to move on like the rest of us.
_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!
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