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#214577 - 04/01/08 07:25 AM Love - vs - Lust
dking777 Offline
Guest

Registered: 03/17/08
Posts: 94
Loc: CA
I have read through the posts here for the last two weeks.





Edited by dking777 (10/25/09 01:11 AM)
_________________________
And may you be in heaven
half an hour before the devil knows you're dead.

Bittersweet Symphony

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#214582 - 04/01/08 08:37 AM Re: Love - vs - Lust [Re: dking777]
Freedom49 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 2723
Loc: Washington State
That was beautiful Dave, I am with you buddy. Aim for love and you get everything else to boot.


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#216017 - 04/06/08 11:17 PM Re: Love - vs - Lust [Re: Freedom49]
ericc Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/04/08
Posts: 1959
This is good stuff for me. I tend to have issues with 'lustful' thinking. But deep down inside what I want more than anything is to love and be loved by another human being. After I remembered my past and sort of fell apart, one of the things I would do is try and idealize a woman and imagine that my love was pure and non-sexual. But by denying that part of it all, I wasn't really feeling and was sort of manipulating my emotions.

Anyway, I need to work on things in this area, but I know deep down inside I would prefer the real thing called love vs. the lustful thoughts that I sometimes have issues with.

There was talk of positive vs. negative sexuality recently, and I have been putting some thought into what that means to me. I have a lot to work on, but I hope I can make things better. I always had the emotional desires to be with another person in that emotional space of loving and caring for the other. But things in my life have made it hard to allow myself to get there. But again, these are things to work on, and hopefully I will be able to grow in this area.

Eric


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#216034 - 04/06/08 11:59 PM Re: Love - vs - Lust [Re: ericc]
OKIE MIKE Offline
Member

Registered: 02/13/04
Posts: 979
Loc: HULBERT OK
I some times wonder what is love. I understand how I feel about my children and grand children .But that is parental love.
But I do not trust other people enough to let them close enough to me. to feel love

_________________________
MICHAEL

"I HAD NO SHOES THEN I SAW A MAN THAT HAD NO FEET"

"All I can do is be me, whoever that is"

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#216047 - 04/07/08 12:32 AM Re: Love - vs - Lust [Re: OKIE MIKE]
Freedom49 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 2723
Loc: Washington State
Love vs Lust

I have wrestled with this question for all my life. A week before I went to the WoR I had a session with my T and he asked me to tell him about the first time I had sex. I did ,

Then he ask me about the next time, then the next time and so on for about 5 experiences. He stopped me at that point and read back to me what I had said. He pointed out that he had asked me about my experience with sex and what I had told him was my experiences with my abusers. In my heart of hearts I was equating sex with abuse.

I had no real experience with sex. Not the healthy physical expression of love. Every time I thought I was having sex I was slipping into abuse mode and that is why it was awkward and also why I always felt bad after. I love my wife. I loved Danny too. But with both relationships when I had “sex” I was doing something naughty, dirty, nasty.

I cried my eyes out for 3 minutes when this realization hit me. What a waste. What a terrible thing to do to my partner or my wonderful wife.

I have since talked to my wife and we have embarked on what my therapist called a resexualization of Roger. I can happily report that it is going well. I am having SEX with my wife. I enjoy it and I enjoy her and I am not feeling naughty or dirty after. I love this and I think my T earned his money for this one.

I believe if you’re having sex you should be enjoying it, you should be in the moment with your partner, not off in some disassociated fantasy or numbed out. You should not feel empty or guilty or dirty or naughty after. This is love in the physical sense of pleasing your partner. In my opinion.

Lust on the other hand is not about a partner or spouse at all. It is about you. It is about getting off however you can. Your partner is incidental and could be anyone or anything that makes it work for you. Simple as that in my opinion. Strictly physical, nothing emotional or spiritual happening or if it is it is also incidental.

I will probably get some flak for this one but hey I can take it. I am happy. I am having sex!


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#216066 - 04/07/08 06:27 AM Re: Love - vs - Lust [Re: Freedom49]
dannym Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/24/07
Posts: 543
Loc: Boulder, Colorado
Great thread, you guys, thank you.

I too have come to understand that for me, "good" sex is about the intiamcy and SHARED experience with a partner. It boils down, for me, to trust. How can we have intimacy if we don't have trust? Love is a hard word for me in this area, because I did love my abusers. The long term abuser expecially. But what I didn't have was trust. I did not trust that he would be my friend if I didn't give him my body, in the way he dictated, when he wanted., I learned, too, that I sex was a means to "get off" for myself, but also keep the things in life I DID want - friendship, an older kid to pay attention to me, acceptance of his peers, all relied on me giving up what I needed.

In my marriage, too, I kept up the same perseptions - I needed to perform sexaully because that was expected and I enjoyed the physical part... but I felt dirty and guilty everytime, but that was all I knew.

It wasn't until I started recovery and met someone that I can have that level of intimacy with - that level of trust with, that I have found that I am a sexual being. Have I had sex with this person? Nope, because right now that would not be a good thing for either of us - but our intimacy has grown to a point that when it does happen, it will be mutual, enjoyable and will not have one ounce of guilt related to it.

For me, anohter key piece is accepting myself as worthy of sexual pleasure... that was taken from me at the age of 6... and at the age of 44, I now reclaim those feelings...

I am worth the love, the imtimacy and the trust to be sexual, sensual and fulfilled. Damn right!

Dan

_________________________
"You should listen to your heart, and not the voices in your head."

Marge Simpson

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#216067 - 04/07/08 06:28 AM Re: Love - vs - Lust [Re: Freedom49]
arronb Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/02/08
Posts: 1005
Loc: Perth
Originally Posted By: Freedom49

I am happy. I am having sex!


Bragger !!!

Sorry Roger ... I couldn't resist that one \:\)

I am so happy that you have worked thru this sex/abuse mine field. One of the goals I am working toward is to have a healthy sex life, so many mixed up messages implanted in my mind have robbed me of this, I can't wait for the day when I can say ...
I am happy. I am having sex.

Thanks for sharing guys \:\)


_________________________
Keep Smilin'
arronb

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#216100 - 04/07/08 10:26 AM Re: Love - vs - Lust [Re: arronb]
JustScott Offline
Greeter Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 2572
Guess I have a long road to travel yet. Sex with my wife is infrequent unfortunately (she has a very low sex drive), but when we are together, if I'm not off somewhere in la la land or whatever you want to call it, it's impossible for me to climax. I often feel uneasy and "dirty" the whole time.

I know I need to "retrain" my brain/body whatever, just not sure how to do that, and with the infrequence of things, it makes that task all the harder.

No heat from me Roger, I think you've got a good view on things. If I was asked by my T to talk about the first time I had sex, I can guarantee I would have started way back at the abuse as well. Maybe those normal for most of us to think that way, I really don't know.


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#216170 - 04/07/08 02:09 PM Re: Love - vs - Lust [Re: JustScott]
lostcowboy Offline
Member

Registered: 11/10/04
Posts: 797
Loc: North Texas
love and lust, I think we need both.

_________________________
"Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend." - Albert Camus
Pretty much my life as I have posted so far. Triggers!

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#216212 - 04/07/08 03:55 PM Re: Love - vs - Lust [Re: lostcowboy]
VLinvictus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/05/07
Posts: 273
Loc: NY
I think "lust" gets a bad rap. That whole "deadly sin" thing doesn't exactly help.

There are two needs at work here: sexual release and companionship/intimacy.

Everyone is entitled to both and has the right to both. Yes, even me. It's hard for me to accept that sometimes, but one of the biggest breakthroughs in my personal growth and recovery was when my T helped me to articulate that and say that for myself. This was about 4 years ago, and I'm still grateful. I deserve to have sex. I deserve to have love. We all are.

Love, I think, is about connection. If I love someone, I see him as part of what makes me who I am. We are all defined and made up by our relationship with other people -- but if I love someone, I feel like that person and I are part of a more intimate system. I want him to be happy. I want to help him when he's in need. I want the best for him, whatever it may be. It necessarily involves a greater deal of openness and sharing and communication than with more casual relationships.

When a person is in love, they can make use of any and all means of communication to open up to each other and explore each other. Conversation is one form of "intercourse," sex is another.

Just as one can have casual conversations and conversations with many people on many topics without necessarily having to be in love, I think sex is the same. Sex is a way for people to connect and enjoy each other's company -- a very powerful method of communication. Just as everyone has a need for community and human interaction and can mutually meet each other's needs by conversation, so too does everyone have a need for sexual satisfaction and can meet each other's needs by copulation.

But just as a conversation between lovers is of a depth and intimacy different from that of someone you meet in a bar, so too is sex between people who love each other different from a casual fling by two people who simply are enjoying each other's bodies and companies. One is no worse than the other -- both are healthy and good.

The troube comes when the desire for sexual satification exclipses the personhood of the other partner -- this objectification is where we get rape and CSA. \:\(

Originally Posted By: dking777
Don't TAKE this wrong. BUT.

If I could have a dream come true at the blink of an eye -- I would wish I could be stranded on an island with all the guys here .....to explore some healty sexuality with you all.

Hahahaha


Where is this island and how do I get there? \:\)

_________________________
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
~ Oscar Wilde

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#216394 - 04/08/08 12:47 AM Re: Love - vs - Lust [Re: VLinvictus]
ericc Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/04/08
Posts: 1959
VL,

I hear what you are saying. I don't care to get in the details in this thread, but I do recognize I have some sexuality issues that actually serve to keep me from achieving a more healthy sexuality. I am working on this though, as it stems from the shame and guilt of what I have experienced I think. It is not that I don't get out there and interact with people and have friends, but in many ways I have isolated and walled myself off from things. A work in progress indeed.

Eric


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#216407 - 04/08/08 01:35 AM Re: Love - vs - Lust [Re: VLinvictus]
Magoo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/04/08
Posts: 48
Loc: far, far away
Good stuff guys, Thanks!


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#216425 - 04/08/08 04:39 AM Re: Love - vs - Lust [Re: VLinvictus]
Jordan Offline
New Here

Registered: 04/07/08
Posts: 8
Loc: Kenosha, WI
I've never really thought about my abuse as sex, granted I was 9 when the abuse stopped, but it had been all my life and was nothing exciting to me.

I think what I had the biggest problem with was when I started having sex. I constantly felt dirty, even though I cared about the person well enough to not feel guilty for what I was doing. I felt like I was victimizing even though it was completely consensual and of exceptional age.

The only way I really ever got over it was by constantly reminding myself that I loved my partner a lot and that's what made it different.

I'm a new poster, and I'm not used to seeing men being so loving toward one another. I can't stop reading and posting, it's a really good feeling.

_________________________
It's getting hard to be someone, but it all works out.

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#216434 - 04/08/08 07:16 AM Re: Love - vs - Lust [Re: Jordan]
bgd Offline
New Here

Registered: 01/29/08
Posts: 17
Loc: Melbourne, Australia

Hi All,

This is only the second time I have gotten on to the website - I am a little afraid of what I read.
It seems every post I have read has some similarity to something I have felt, or feel or experience, or have difficulty with.
It just amazes me how there can be so many similarities from so many different stories across the other side of the world.
My therapist told me to get onto this website, so I guess he will be happy that I have actually made some contact. Actually, so am I.
I admire the bravery of so many people who have endured years and years of abuse, yet can still be positive and look for and believe in recovery. My abuse lasted maybe one or two years when I was very young (I can't remember exactly how long), so I can't imagine how I would be if it had of lasted longer.
However, I would say that from childhood to early adulthood, I was brought up in an alcoholic household, so any lack of sexual abuse was certainly replaced with plenty of emotional abuse rounded off with a subtle, lingering atmosphere of incestuous sexuality.
That probably was the framework of my sexual development.
I feel all these things mentioned in these posts - fear of rejection, lack of trust, dirty, social anxiety. You name it, there are many similarities.
But with many of them, I still don't have a real awareness of where they have come from.
I am very lucky I was able to realise there was a problem though, because it was through an offshoot of alcoholics anonymous - called ACOA (Adult Children Of Alcoholics) that I must have stirred some feelings, that eventually led me to seek out help. It's funny that in these weekly meetings, one of the first things that I noticed was the same stories being retold over and over again by so many different people. In fact, I was able to sit back for many weeks and actually listen to people unravel what I was feeling whilst talking about themselves.
So as it turned out, about 45 years after it all happened, I realised that what happened was abuse, and was of a magnitude I still don't understand. It is so surreal, as it never was a problem of memory - I never forgot it, I just never felt it.
I hope I haven't rambled and I hope it makes sense.
I might go off to do some abstract drawings now - I find them hugely relieving.


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#216435 - 04/08/08 07:34 AM Re: Love - vs - Lust [Re: bgd]
arronb Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/02/08
Posts: 1005
Loc: Perth
Hello bgd ...

Welcome to MS ... sorry you have to be here,
but your therapist gave you good advise,
it's a great place to learn you aren't alone.

It's always nice to see a fellow aussie treading the boards too \:\)

_________________________
Keep Smilin'
arronb

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#216439 - 04/08/08 07:58 AM Re: Love - vs - Lust [Re: VLinvictus]
DanM Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/09/07
Posts: 540
Loc: So. California
dking,

I want to thank you for saying what I have been thinking along.

Unfortunately, as a result of our abuse, we associate sex with being loved. When we/I acted out, it was an act of lust, because that is what we were taught or conditioned to do. When life became too difficult for me and I was seeking love or comfort, I would try and connect with someone else to feel love and comfort. Now, I realize that what I was really seeking was love not a sexual experience. I always felt so bad and dirty afterwards...a real empty feeling. How could love be bad and dirty? My perception of love was twisted, and for that, I really hate my abusers. They took the most basic and pure form of human emotion and ruined it for me. It has taken me 40 years to be able to emotionally and mentally process this and accept it. I have the most loving and beautiful wife who I never really allowed to love me. I did everything I could to keep her away and out of my heart. Fortunately for me, her love was stronger than the walls I erected to keep her out. She is my soul mate and the love of my life. I am trying to show my love to her in many ways. We are learning to reconnect physically and emotionally, and for me in healthy ways.

I think for CSA survivors, the emotional toll is the greatest damage we have suffered. The physical aspects of the abuse was painful, but nothing compared to the crippling emotional effects. This is where are lives were stolen from us. Without emotion,we go through life as robots,machines not men.

I hope we all are able to positively change our lives and relearn the good that life has to offer. To learn how to love and trust again.

Dan


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#216444 - 04/08/08 08:36 AM Re: Love - vs - Lust [Re: DanM]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 1893
Loc: durham, north england
the love of others must be wonderful.

the love I feel for others is wonderful when combined with hope.

My stupid desire to be loved by another has brought me nothing but pain!

The idea of purely physical desire without love makes me feel sick and afraid, ---- and is an impossible feeling for me.


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#216458 - 04/08/08 09:26 AM Re: Love - vs - Lust [Re: dark empathy]
DanM Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/09/07
Posts: 540
Loc: So. California
I feel blessed that I have the unconditional love of my chidren and the love of my wife. What I have subjected her to over the course of our marriage, is something I am not proud. I am very lucky to have all of them in my life. In fact, I was just talking to my wife of the phone and told her how thankful I am that I have her and the kids in my life. I know there are many of my fellow survivors who have not been as fortunate.

I agree with you that physical desire without love is so unappealing. It has taken me much time to realize this. When you are knee deep in isolating your feelings and doing everything you can to cope, you loose sight of this or never realize it.

Dark Empathy,it is not stupid to think that you should be loved by another person. You deserve to be loved and you deserve to be able to show your love. I hope that in time, you will find that love. I know it is scary to be able to open yourself up to others and run the risk of being rejected. But, I have learned that there are many more caring and loving people out there then there are uncaring ones. In spite of what we think, no one is perfect, we all have blemshes and problems. The encouraging thing is that as we "bond" and "support" one another on MS, we are relearning the skills to relate and love another. This basic ability has been stripped from us and we need to rediscover it. When we do,I think that the love of others will follow close behind. You will find that special someone...

I wish you peace and much happiness.

Dan


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#216557 - 04/08/08 02:11 PM Re: Love - vs - Lust [Re: DanM]
Magoo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/04/08
Posts: 48
Loc: far, far away
BQD,

I'm new here too and ironically I found my way here from ACOA.
I grew up with a violent, alcoholic father and no mother. After losing at love again, I sought some answers. ACOA is a good place to share and work things out but i couldn't lie anymore and know I need to work on being CSA first.
Wow, sure ain't easy being me!
I try to live each day one at a time and still say the serenity prayer and the 12 steps.
I'm glad your here. The guys are are golden!

Peace
M


( DanM - I admire you for the loves you have in your life; you're a lucky man. One day, I will have that too, that's my goal. ) :0)


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#218238 - 04/15/08 06:06 AM Re: Love - vs - Lust [Re: Magoo]
bgd Offline
New Here

Registered: 01/29/08
Posts: 17
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Magoo,

Thanks so much for your welcome. I was at an ACOA meeting only last night - as usual, a very good one.
I agree with you - the CSA does come first - I just didn't know it at the time.
Having a quick look at some posts tonight, I already see so many similarities about sex and love and relationships.
No doubt will see you here again.
Take care

BGD


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#218241 - 04/15/08 06:11 AM Re: Love - vs - Lust [Re: arronb]
bgd Offline
New Here

Registered: 01/29/08
Posts: 17
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Hi Arronb,

It's a really good feeling being able to exchange, or just read, similar feelings and experiences.
I told my therapist that I went on and he was very happy for me.
When are they setting up something like this for us downunder?
I'm sure I will learn a lot about myself being here

BGD


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#218245 - 04/15/08 06:26 AM Re: Love - vs - Lust [Re: dking777]
bgd Offline
New Here

Registered: 01/29/08
Posts: 17
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
I could handle the pain..it was the loneliness that brought me back again and again.

Something about that really struck me. The loneliness drove me to do all the things I regretted, and invariably these things revolved around lust.
However, lust does not roam free when you don't trust, and is harder still to deal with when I was hoping like hell to find love while entertaining lust.
Very confusing, let me tell you.
But, how do you survive a lifetime of abuse? I can't understand how brave / strong some people have had to be.
I guess with me, throughout my life I lived in denial of many things - I think reality would have killed me.
All I can say is don't give up, and I know that from my Adult Children Of Alcoholics support group - supporting each other opens up a new world.
Hope this at least makes sense

BGD


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#218248 - 04/15/08 06:42 AM Re: Love - vs - Lust [Re: bgd]
dannym Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/24/07
Posts: 543
Loc: Boulder, Colorado
Welcome, BDQ,

I am so glad you found us - I think you'll find this is a good place to help unravel some of the abuse you were subjected to as a child.

Hope you have as positive an experience here as I have.

Dan

_________________________
"You should listen to your heart, and not the voices in your head."

Marge Simpson

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#218250 - 04/15/08 06:59 AM Re: Love - vs - Lust [Re: dannym]
bgd Offline
New Here

Registered: 01/29/08
Posts: 17
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Thanks for the welcome,

I am sure that it is going to help unravel the thought processes.
It's like making bread out of flour - the thought processes will turn into feelings. Then I will be able to put them into words.

BGD


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#218275 - 04/15/08 10:13 AM Re: Love - vs - Lust [Re: bgd]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
bgd,

Just another word of welcome. I'm glad you found us and I know you will find a lot of understanding and support here.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#218276 - 04/15/08 10:20 AM Re: Love - vs - Lust [Re: roadrunner]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Love v. Lust. Hmmmmmmm. I have to admit that the first is something I treasure more than almost anything else I could receive. To be loved is to receive an incredible gift.

Lust is something I just don't see in the same way. Okay, we all have sexual urges and needs. But for me at least, meeting them in a context in which sex is the only thing that's going on isn't an experience I value all that much after the fact.

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but isn't it true that any dumb animal can fuck?

Much love,
Larry


_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#218359 - 04/15/08 04:57 PM Re: Love - vs - Lust [Re: roadrunner]
KENKEN Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/25/07
Posts: 762
Loc: NOTHERN COLORADO
To me the word Love has a meaning I can't even relate to. At this time in my life I just don't know what love is. I always at times felt I was in love. But then the love fades away. It fades away from relationships, from emotions, from life. How can love feel so good, but with me it always leaves me to feal sad again, rejected again, angry again, lonely again. It just must not be love, because I was under the understanding that love is always suppose to be there. You know like the love I have for my kids. How do I ever get that kind of love in a relationship? I know I Love God too. But even with God I feel at times that he too is letting me down.

To me lust is just that, a temporary fix on something I feel I have to have now. It is to me, just a fix. I will lust after something until I get it, sex, food, material things. Once I get my fix, I go on until I get that lusting urge again. Then I do just that, find a way to fulfill my lust, my urge.

This is a good topic for me today. The love of my life left me yesterday. Now it is back to picking up the pieces of my life and deciding if I have the strength to start over again

Ken

_________________________
I AM A GOOD PERSON, I AM A GOOD MAN

From the Movie: Antwone Fisher

***WOR ALUMNI SEQUOIA MARCH 2008***

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#218372 - 04/15/08 06:46 PM Re: Love - vs - Lust [Re: KENKEN]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Ken,

I'm so sorry to hear this news. Just know we are all with you as you cope with your loss. You do have the strength, my friend.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#218487 - 04/16/08 08:01 AM Re: Love - vs - Lust [Re: roadrunner]
bgd Offline
New Here

Registered: 01/29/08
Posts: 17
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
roadrunner,

thanks for your welcome. I hope I can give as much support and wisdom to others as I read here.
And no, it probably isn't harsh. It's just that lust often seemed to be the only option, or the only successful option, but after having fulfilled that, all I would be left with was enormous guilt and emptiness and sadness.
I too wanted love but only saw lust.


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#218490 - 04/16/08 08:05 AM Re: Love - vs - Lust [Re: DanM]
bgd Offline
New Here

Registered: 01/29/08
Posts: 17
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
DanM,

You said so well what I couldn't work out when I was younger.
I have to digest it all slowly - there is so much information here I don't know where to go to next.
Thanks

BGD


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#218511 - 04/16/08 09:50 AM Re: Love - vs - Lust [Re: bgd]
VLinvictus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/05/07
Posts: 273
Loc: NY
It was not until I became a dog owner that I truly saw what pure, unconditional love really is.

_________________________
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
~ Oscar Wilde

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#218512 - 04/16/08 09:51 AM Re: Love - vs - Lust [Re: roadrunner]
VLinvictus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/05/07
Posts: 273
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: roadrunner


Sorry if this sounds harsh, but isn't it true that any dumb animal can fuck?



If only it were that simple! \:\)
Having the ability and having the opportunity are two very different things.

_________________________
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
~ Oscar Wilde

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#218556 - 04/16/08 02:01 PM Re: Love - vs - Lust [Re: VLinvictus]
Jeff Amsel Offline


Registered: 04/14/08
Posts: 17
Loc: NJ
Guys,
The posts on this site are more than I can imagine. Each has such meaning, and I identify with all. I am 66yrs young, very active, and a grandpa of 6 gems. My two daughters have really blessed me. Married 4 times, and have yet to be in love. Not sure if lust is the right word, but I am forever horny.....to me that is lusting. I have never wanted to make love, just screw. The last person I wanted to do that with was any of my wives. It was so much better either with a hooker or massage parlor. Pay the price, walk out satisfied. No matter who the female I am with, after 2 or 3 times in bed, I was done. On to the new....terrified of the one I am with. Looking for a new T, and a group. Hope to find both very soon. This is only my 3rd day at this site, and I am very glad to have found it. I am also a recovering AA, and have almost 6yrs sober. Along with all my addictions, I am trying to get it all together. With your help and my higher power, I will find it. Thanks to each and every one. Jeff \:\)


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#218686 - 04/17/08 05:20 AM Re: Love - vs - Lust [Re: VLinvictus]
dking777 Offline
Guest

Registered: 03/17/08
Posts: 94
Loc: CA
I was watching this movie the other day - with Omar Sharif titled Monsieur Ibrahim. The movie is about a Muslim who adopts a 16 year Jewish youth. The teenager is having his first pangs of a broken heart over a girl who dumped him. The old man says something to him that I thought was profound. The teenager's name is Momo - short for Moses.

Ibrahim: Your love for her is yours. It belongs to you. She rejects it, but she can't destroy it. She's just missing out on it. What you give, Momo, is yours for good. What you keep is lost forever.





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#218699 - 04/17/08 09:41 AM Re: Love - vs - Lust [Re: dking777]
DanM Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/09/07
Posts: 540
Loc: So. California
DKing, thank you for sharing that with us. I also enjoyed that movie...it is interesting how we can learn about life.


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#218705 - 04/17/08 09:52 AM Re: Love - vs - Lust [Re: DanM]
Freedom49 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 2723
Loc: Washington State
I find it interesting that so much of our attitude towards our abuse and harm directly effects us, not our abusers. Ironic that forgiveness and restoring "love" as described here does nothing for or against our perps but directly affects our quality of life for us. It is us that we are trying to heal and us that can provide that healing. Interesting. Thank you both.


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#218765 - 04/17/08 02:31 PM Re: Love - vs - Lust [Re: Freedom49]
Magoo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/04/08
Posts: 48
Loc: far, far away
Awesome Dking!
Thanks,


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#218769 - 04/17/08 03:38 PM Re: Love - vs - Lust [Re: dking777]
mogigo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 1331
Loc: Colorado
Quote:
"rakhma", in Aramaic means unconditional love. We have no word for such an attitude in English.


Yes we do DK, it's just been perverted, the word we have is "love", it was never meant to hold condition's.

The word "acceptance" has been replaced with the word love, those that tell you they will accept you don't know what the word love means, they have just used love in acceptance's place.

Mike



Edited by mogigo (04/17/08 03:44 PM)
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