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#216394 - 04/08/08 12:47 AM Re: Love - vs - Lust [Re: VLinvictus]
ericc Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/04/08
Posts: 1960
VL,

I hear what you are saying. I don't care to get in the details in this thread, but I do recognize I have some sexuality issues that actually serve to keep me from achieving a more healthy sexuality. I am working on this though, as it stems from the shame and guilt of what I have experienced I think. It is not that I don't get out there and interact with people and have friends, but in many ways I have isolated and walled myself off from things. A work in progress indeed.

Eric


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#216407 - 04/08/08 01:35 AM Re: Love - vs - Lust [Re: VLinvictus]
Magoo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/04/08
Posts: 48
Loc: far, far away
Good stuff guys, Thanks!


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#216425 - 04/08/08 04:39 AM Re: Love - vs - Lust [Re: VLinvictus]
Jordan Offline
New Here

Registered: 04/07/08
Posts: 8
Loc: Kenosha, WI
I've never really thought about my abuse as sex, granted I was 9 when the abuse stopped, but it had been all my life and was nothing exciting to me.

I think what I had the biggest problem with was when I started having sex. I constantly felt dirty, even though I cared about the person well enough to not feel guilty for what I was doing. I felt like I was victimizing even though it was completely consensual and of exceptional age.

The only way I really ever got over it was by constantly reminding myself that I loved my partner a lot and that's what made it different.

I'm a new poster, and I'm not used to seeing men being so loving toward one another. I can't stop reading and posting, it's a really good feeling.

_________________________
It's getting hard to be someone, but it all works out.

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#216434 - 04/08/08 07:16 AM Re: Love - vs - Lust [Re: Jordan]
bgd Offline
New Here

Registered: 01/29/08
Posts: 17
Loc: Melbourne, Australia

Hi All,

This is only the second time I have gotten on to the website - I am a little afraid of what I read.
It seems every post I have read has some similarity to something I have felt, or feel or experience, or have difficulty with.
It just amazes me how there can be so many similarities from so many different stories across the other side of the world.
My therapist told me to get onto this website, so I guess he will be happy that I have actually made some contact. Actually, so am I.
I admire the bravery of so many people who have endured years and years of abuse, yet can still be positive and look for and believe in recovery. My abuse lasted maybe one or two years when I was very young (I can't remember exactly how long), so I can't imagine how I would be if it had of lasted longer.
However, I would say that from childhood to early adulthood, I was brought up in an alcoholic household, so any lack of sexual abuse was certainly replaced with plenty of emotional abuse rounded off with a subtle, lingering atmosphere of incestuous sexuality.
That probably was the framework of my sexual development.
I feel all these things mentioned in these posts - fear of rejection, lack of trust, dirty, social anxiety. You name it, there are many similarities.
But with many of them, I still don't have a real awareness of where they have come from.
I am very lucky I was able to realise there was a problem though, because it was through an offshoot of alcoholics anonymous - called ACOA (Adult Children Of Alcoholics) that I must have stirred some feelings, that eventually led me to seek out help. It's funny that in these weekly meetings, one of the first things that I noticed was the same stories being retold over and over again by so many different people. In fact, I was able to sit back for many weeks and actually listen to people unravel what I was feeling whilst talking about themselves.
So as it turned out, about 45 years after it all happened, I realised that what happened was abuse, and was of a magnitude I still don't understand. It is so surreal, as it never was a problem of memory - I never forgot it, I just never felt it.
I hope I haven't rambled and I hope it makes sense.
I might go off to do some abstract drawings now - I find them hugely relieving.


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#216435 - 04/08/08 07:34 AM Re: Love - vs - Lust [Re: bgd]
arronb Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/02/08
Posts: 1005
Loc: Perth
Hello bgd ...

Welcome to MS ... sorry you have to be here,
but your therapist gave you good advise,
it's a great place to learn you aren't alone.

It's always nice to see a fellow aussie treading the boards too \:\)

_________________________
Keep Smilin'
arronb

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#216439 - 04/08/08 07:58 AM Re: Love - vs - Lust [Re: VLinvictus]
DanM Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/09/07
Posts: 540
Loc: So. California
dking,

I want to thank you for saying what I have been thinking along.

Unfortunately, as a result of our abuse, we associate sex with being loved. When we/I acted out, it was an act of lust, because that is what we were taught or conditioned to do. When life became too difficult for me and I was seeking love or comfort, I would try and connect with someone else to feel love and comfort. Now, I realize that what I was really seeking was love not a sexual experience. I always felt so bad and dirty afterwards...a real empty feeling. How could love be bad and dirty? My perception of love was twisted, and for that, I really hate my abusers. They took the most basic and pure form of human emotion and ruined it for me. It has taken me 40 years to be able to emotionally and mentally process this and accept it. I have the most loving and beautiful wife who I never really allowed to love me. I did everything I could to keep her away and out of my heart. Fortunately for me, her love was stronger than the walls I erected to keep her out. She is my soul mate and the love of my life. I am trying to show my love to her in many ways. We are learning to reconnect physically and emotionally, and for me in healthy ways.

I think for CSA survivors, the emotional toll is the greatest damage we have suffered. The physical aspects of the abuse was painful, but nothing compared to the crippling emotional effects. This is where are lives were stolen from us. Without emotion,we go through life as robots,machines not men.

I hope we all are able to positively change our lives and relearn the good that life has to offer. To learn how to love and trust again.

Dan


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#216444 - 04/08/08 08:36 AM Re: Love - vs - Lust [Re: DanM]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 1928
Loc: durham, north england
the love of others must be wonderful.

the love I feel for others is wonderful when combined with hope.

My stupid desire to be loved by another has brought me nothing but pain!

The idea of purely physical desire without love makes me feel sick and afraid, ---- and is an impossible feeling for me.


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#216458 - 04/08/08 09:26 AM Re: Love - vs - Lust [Re: dark empathy]
DanM Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/09/07
Posts: 540
Loc: So. California
I feel blessed that I have the unconditional love of my chidren and the love of my wife. What I have subjected her to over the course of our marriage, is something I am not proud. I am very lucky to have all of them in my life. In fact, I was just talking to my wife of the phone and told her how thankful I am that I have her and the kids in my life. I know there are many of my fellow survivors who have not been as fortunate.

I agree with you that physical desire without love is so unappealing. It has taken me much time to realize this. When you are knee deep in isolating your feelings and doing everything you can to cope, you loose sight of this or never realize it.

Dark Empathy,it is not stupid to think that you should be loved by another person. You deserve to be loved and you deserve to be able to show your love. I hope that in time, you will find that love. I know it is scary to be able to open yourself up to others and run the risk of being rejected. But, I have learned that there are many more caring and loving people out there then there are uncaring ones. In spite of what we think, no one is perfect, we all have blemshes and problems. The encouraging thing is that as we "bond" and "support" one another on MS, we are relearning the skills to relate and love another. This basic ability has been stripped from us and we need to rediscover it. When we do,I think that the love of others will follow close behind. You will find that special someone...

I wish you peace and much happiness.

Dan


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#216557 - 04/08/08 02:11 PM Re: Love - vs - Lust [Re: DanM]
Magoo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/04/08
Posts: 48
Loc: far, far away
BQD,

I'm new here too and ironically I found my way here from ACOA.
I grew up with a violent, alcoholic father and no mother. After losing at love again, I sought some answers. ACOA is a good place to share and work things out but i couldn't lie anymore and know I need to work on being CSA first.
Wow, sure ain't easy being me!
I try to live each day one at a time and still say the serenity prayer and the 12 steps.
I'm glad your here. The guys are are golden!

Peace
M


( DanM - I admire you for the loves you have in your life; you're a lucky man. One day, I will have that too, that's my goal. ) :0)


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#218238 - 04/15/08 06:06 AM Re: Love - vs - Lust [Re: Magoo]
bgd Offline
New Here

Registered: 01/29/08
Posts: 17
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Magoo,

Thanks so much for your welcome. I was at an ACOA meeting only last night - as usual, a very good one.
I agree with you - the CSA does come first - I just didn't know it at the time.
Having a quick look at some posts tonight, I already see so many similarities about sex and love and relationships.
No doubt will see you here again.
Take care

BGD


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