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#214577 - 04/01/08 07:25 AM Love - vs - Lust
dking777 Offline
Guest

Registered: 03/17/08
Posts: 94
Loc: CA
I have read through the posts here for the last two weeks.





Edited by dking777 (10/25/09 01:11 AM)
_________________________
And may you be in heaven
half an hour before the devil knows you're dead.

Bittersweet Symphony

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#214582 - 04/01/08 08:37 AM Re: Love - vs - Lust [Re: dking777]
Freedom49 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 2723
Loc: Washington State
That was beautiful Dave, I am with you buddy. Aim for love and you get everything else to boot.


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#216017 - 04/06/08 11:17 PM Re: Love - vs - Lust [Re: Freedom49]
ericc Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/04/08
Posts: 1977
This is good stuff for me. I tend to have issues with 'lustful' thinking. But deep down inside what I want more than anything is to love and be loved by another human being. After I remembered my past and sort of fell apart, one of the things I would do is try and idealize a woman and imagine that my love was pure and non-sexual. But by denying that part of it all, I wasn't really feeling and was sort of manipulating my emotions.

Anyway, I need to work on things in this area, but I know deep down inside I would prefer the real thing called love vs. the lustful thoughts that I sometimes have issues with.

There was talk of positive vs. negative sexuality recently, and I have been putting some thought into what that means to me. I have a lot to work on, but I hope I can make things better. I always had the emotional desires to be with another person in that emotional space of loving and caring for the other. But things in my life have made it hard to allow myself to get there. But again, these are things to work on, and hopefully I will be able to grow in this area.

Eric


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#216034 - 04/06/08 11:59 PM Re: Love - vs - Lust [Re: ericc]
OKIE MIKE Offline
Member

Registered: 02/13/04
Posts: 982
Loc: HULBERT OK
I some times wonder what is love. I understand how I feel about my children and grand children .But that is parental love.
But I do not trust other people enough to let them close enough to me. to feel love

_________________________
MICHAEL

"I HAD NO SHOES THEN I SAW A MAN THAT HAD NO FEET"

"All I can do is be me, whoever that is"

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#216047 - 04/07/08 12:32 AM Re: Love - vs - Lust [Re: OKIE MIKE]
Freedom49 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 2723
Loc: Washington State
Love vs Lust

I have wrestled with this question for all my life. A week before I went to the WoR I had a session with my T and he asked me to tell him about the first time I had sex. I did ,

Then he ask me about the next time, then the next time and so on for about 5 experiences. He stopped me at that point and read back to me what I had said. He pointed out that he had asked me about my experience with sex and what I had told him was my experiences with my abusers. In my heart of hearts I was equating sex with abuse.

I had no real experience with sex. Not the healthy physical expression of love. Every time I thought I was having sex I was slipping into abuse mode and that is why it was awkward and also why I always felt bad after. I love my wife. I loved Danny too. But with both relationships when I had “sex” I was doing something naughty, dirty, nasty.

I cried my eyes out for 3 minutes when this realization hit me. What a waste. What a terrible thing to do to my partner or my wonderful wife.

I have since talked to my wife and we have embarked on what my therapist called a resexualization of Roger. I can happily report that it is going well. I am having SEX with my wife. I enjoy it and I enjoy her and I am not feeling naughty or dirty after. I love this and I think my T earned his money for this one.

I believe if you’re having sex you should be enjoying it, you should be in the moment with your partner, not off in some disassociated fantasy or numbed out. You should not feel empty or guilty or dirty or naughty after. This is love in the physical sense of pleasing your partner. In my opinion.

Lust on the other hand is not about a partner or spouse at all. It is about you. It is about getting off however you can. Your partner is incidental and could be anyone or anything that makes it work for you. Simple as that in my opinion. Strictly physical, nothing emotional or spiritual happening or if it is it is also incidental.

I will probably get some flak for this one but hey I can take it. I am happy. I am having sex!


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#216066 - 04/07/08 06:27 AM Re: Love - vs - Lust [Re: Freedom49]
dannym Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/24/07
Posts: 543
Loc: Boulder, Colorado
Great thread, you guys, thank you.

I too have come to understand that for me, "good" sex is about the intiamcy and SHARED experience with a partner. It boils down, for me, to trust. How can we have intimacy if we don't have trust? Love is a hard word for me in this area, because I did love my abusers. The long term abuser expecially. But what I didn't have was trust. I did not trust that he would be my friend if I didn't give him my body, in the way he dictated, when he wanted., I learned, too, that I sex was a means to "get off" for myself, but also keep the things in life I DID want - friendship, an older kid to pay attention to me, acceptance of his peers, all relied on me giving up what I needed.

In my marriage, too, I kept up the same perseptions - I needed to perform sexaully because that was expected and I enjoyed the physical part... but I felt dirty and guilty everytime, but that was all I knew.

It wasn't until I started recovery and met someone that I can have that level of intimacy with - that level of trust with, that I have found that I am a sexual being. Have I had sex with this person? Nope, because right now that would not be a good thing for either of us - but our intimacy has grown to a point that when it does happen, it will be mutual, enjoyable and will not have one ounce of guilt related to it.

For me, anohter key piece is accepting myself as worthy of sexual pleasure... that was taken from me at the age of 6... and at the age of 44, I now reclaim those feelings...

I am worth the love, the imtimacy and the trust to be sexual, sensual and fulfilled. Damn right!

Dan

_________________________
"You should listen to your heart, and not the voices in your head."

Marge Simpson

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#216067 - 04/07/08 06:28 AM Re: Love - vs - Lust [Re: Freedom49]
arronb Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/02/08
Posts: 1005
Loc: Perth
Originally Posted By: Freedom49

I am happy. I am having sex!


Bragger !!!

Sorry Roger ... I couldn't resist that one \:\)

I am so happy that you have worked thru this sex/abuse mine field. One of the goals I am working toward is to have a healthy sex life, so many mixed up messages implanted in my mind have robbed me of this, I can't wait for the day when I can say ...
I am happy. I am having sex.

Thanks for sharing guys \:\)


_________________________
Keep Smilin'
arronb

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#216100 - 04/07/08 10:26 AM Re: Love - vs - Lust [Re: arronb]
JustScott Offline
Greeter Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 2590
Guess I have a long road to travel yet. Sex with my wife is infrequent unfortunately (she has a very low sex drive), but when we are together, if I'm not off somewhere in la la land or whatever you want to call it, it's impossible for me to climax. I often feel uneasy and "dirty" the whole time.

I know I need to "retrain" my brain/body whatever, just not sure how to do that, and with the infrequence of things, it makes that task all the harder.

No heat from me Roger, I think you've got a good view on things. If I was asked by my T to talk about the first time I had sex, I can guarantee I would have started way back at the abuse as well. Maybe those normal for most of us to think that way, I really don't know.


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#216170 - 04/07/08 02:09 PM Re: Love - vs - Lust [Re: JustScott]
lostcowboy Offline
Member

Registered: 11/10/04
Posts: 797
Loc: North Texas
love and lust, I think we need both.

_________________________
"Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend." - Albert Camus
Pretty much my life as I have posted so far. Triggers!

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#216212 - 04/07/08 03:55 PM Re: Love - vs - Lust [Re: lostcowboy]
VLinvictus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/05/07
Posts: 273
Loc: NY
I think "lust" gets a bad rap. That whole "deadly sin" thing doesn't exactly help.

There are two needs at work here: sexual release and companionship/intimacy.

Everyone is entitled to both and has the right to both. Yes, even me. It's hard for me to accept that sometimes, but one of the biggest breakthroughs in my personal growth and recovery was when my T helped me to articulate that and say that for myself. This was about 4 years ago, and I'm still grateful. I deserve to have sex. I deserve to have love. We all are.

Love, I think, is about connection. If I love someone, I see him as part of what makes me who I am. We are all defined and made up by our relationship with other people -- but if I love someone, I feel like that person and I are part of a more intimate system. I want him to be happy. I want to help him when he's in need. I want the best for him, whatever it may be. It necessarily involves a greater deal of openness and sharing and communication than with more casual relationships.

When a person is in love, they can make use of any and all means of communication to open up to each other and explore each other. Conversation is one form of "intercourse," sex is another.

Just as one can have casual conversations and conversations with many people on many topics without necessarily having to be in love, I think sex is the same. Sex is a way for people to connect and enjoy each other's company -- a very powerful method of communication. Just as everyone has a need for community and human interaction and can mutually meet each other's needs by conversation, so too does everyone have a need for sexual satisfaction and can meet each other's needs by copulation.

But just as a conversation between lovers is of a depth and intimacy different from that of someone you meet in a bar, so too is sex between people who love each other different from a casual fling by two people who simply are enjoying each other's bodies and companies. One is no worse than the other -- both are healthy and good.

The troube comes when the desire for sexual satification exclipses the personhood of the other partner -- this objectification is where we get rape and CSA. \:\(

Originally Posted By: dking777
Don't TAKE this wrong. BUT.

If I could have a dream come true at the blink of an eye -- I would wish I could be stranded on an island with all the guys here .....to explore some healty sexuality with you all.

Hahahaha


Where is this island and how do I get there? \:\)

_________________________
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
~ Oscar Wilde

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