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#214197 - 03/30/08 04:21 PM Lord have mercy
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
When I first met the woman who would later become my wife – we were in college. I knew I had “gay tendancies” but I was convinced there were something I would ‘grow through’ – after all – that’s what all the “experts” said. I also believed at that time that God would “cure” me.

The woman I met in college became a fast friend. We enjoyed so many of the same past times – we could talk about anything. In fact – she was the first person in the entire world I told about my “issues” with desiring men and the battle I fought to simply ignore the “temptation”.

Close friendship – ability to talk about anything –unlike anyone I had ever known before – within two years I loved her – and our conversations were so intimate – it didn’t take me long to truly believe I not only loved her – I was in love with her.

Fast forward 35 years and 3 children. Now I fight with the pieces of memory and the “strong indicators” of sexual abuse in my past. My own sexual identity is in question. I’ve studied more, read more, prayed more – and have a VERY different outlook on what it means to be gay. Not to mention I am convinced we are how God made us – and He wouldn’t make someone just to hate – SO – I am also convinced God does not condemn someone for loving someone who just happens to be their same gender.

Where does all this leave me? In a marriage I’m not sure was ever meant to happen. I love my children – I still love my wife. (though if I truly loved her, wouldn’t I tell her of how I truly feel??) But I am in a life that is NOT what I want – in any way. The only good things? My music, and my job. I have a problem with my work at church - not because of my sexuality - but because of the lie I'm living. While I'll grant you the church I'm in would fire me in a heartbeat if they knew ... I don't think that would be worse than the guilt I put myself through for the untrue life I'm living.

Bottom line – I don’t want to be married. Now – is it because I’m just so exhausted, frustrated, and depressed that I can’t stand my own life – or is it truly because I am a gay man trapped in a relationship that, had I not been so confused with my own belief system and understanding who I truly was – I would never have gotten involved in???

I’m not looking for any answers – cuz I dunno if there ARE any answers out there for me. I just needed to say something. I needed, for once, to be honest with who I am. The thought of posting this has me terrified … but something has to give……


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#214212 - 03/30/08 06:11 PM Re: Lord have mercy [Re: MarkK]
dancr6 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/02/07
Posts: 383
Loc: georgia
What am I doing?

I am afraid that I understand your situation with a twist. I have an attraction to men but experience has shown me that it is "sexualizing" the attraction. I chose to remain in the loving relationship I'm in because it is the best of the two I will allow myself to be in, either alone and celibate or with my wife and kids. At this point in my recovery I expected the male attraction thing to have gone away but it hangs around maybe it's the real me and I'm just too afraid of it.

My wife once asked me what my life would be like if I hadn't married her and my response was "probably homosexual out of a feeling of obligation". The few times I allowed myself to experience male sex I got into it and had to apologize for not being able to finish. Once I started shivering and felt as if my bones were freezing.

I would hate to give up this life that allows me some normalcy and love for a life that I feel would be very lonely.

I'm not giving an answer, "just needed to say something" :-)

Dan

_________________________
I'm a freeman now, his authority's dead
no pain monger lies in my comfortable bed!

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#214223 - 03/30/08 07:21 PM Re: Lord have mercy [Re: dancr6]
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16264
Mark,

The idea of being homosexual is something that for most of us who were raised Christian is an enigma, an impossibility, etc. As I write this I'm sitting in an apartment just off Broadway in Seattle's Capitol Hill area. Less than a block away is a church of unknown Christian lineage that sports a large Pride banner which proclaims "All Are Welcome Here".

I will not presume to make a decision for God one way or the other regarding this issue, but I do know that Christ said "Come to me, everyone who is burdened down and tired. I will give you rest." I choose to take him at his word and allow him to do whatever it is he does without me making the decision for him who is "okay" and who isn't.

Before any of you attempt to haul me before the church council remember, I'm just saying that I will not presume to make God's decisions for him. He said to "Judge not". In short, in my opinion your standing with God is between you and him, not between you, him, and I.

Lots of love,

John

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#214229 - 03/30/08 07:56 PM Re: Lord have mercy [Re: WalkingSouth]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
I know I am gay. I've known for a LONG time. I also know I am "fearfully and wonderfully made" and that God knew me while I was still in my mother's womb. That said - I am fairly certain God loves me.

The question now for me is whether it is better to deny everything I am and live out the promise I gave my wife - or openly (for once) accept who I am, even knowing that will end my marriage - my children may deny me - and my one of my "best friends" - the pastor with whom I work every week - would tell me not to bother to come back.

With all I am facing with this "recovery" after abuse - somehow the idea of losing what little I do have just so I can say "look at me - I accept who I am" ... seems a rather shallow victory. If a victory at all.

I'm afraid ... no, strike that - I am TERRIFIED of spending the rest of my life without the ones who have meant the most to me.

But even that shouldn't be too bad - I made it this far without the love and acceptance of parents.

I know one thing - if I were not married - I would not be living a gay life style "out of obligation". Having known love from men and women - I can honestly say I know which fulfills me -makes me feel alive, and doesn't leave me feeling dirty and used.

And it's not the love of a "good woman".

M


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#214243 - 03/30/08 08:40 PM Re: Lord have mercy [Re: MarkK]
frost Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/15/07
Posts: 1377
Loc: Eh?
Mark,

Since your post was so honest and sincere, I thought I would treat you with the same respect and give you an honest and sincere reply.

As I read through your post I couldn't help but think this would be better suited for the "Sexual Identity Issues" area however I think your method for posting in the spirituality forum was driven mostly out of the types of responses you're seeking, and the thought that this was probably moreso within your comfort zone to post in this area of the forum. Either way, you've opened up alot with this post and I think thats a great thing.

Personally, I am not qualified nor really in the spiritual mindset to offer you any form of educated perspective in terms of spirituality. So if I may, I would like to give you some thoughts that occurred to me as I read through your post. My reply isn't meant to hurt or offend anyone and especially you. I just think perhaps its something that needs to be said. To provide a fresh perspective \:\)

First of all, I think its fantastic that you were able to share the background of your relationship with your now-wife. Because of all this history, because of your 3 children, and because you still say you love your wife and children... I am going to say that the decisions you're wrestling with are not decisions that can be made in any form of haste. That being said, this probably doesn't seem like 'haste' to you as you've done so much reading and studying on the subject.

To me it sounds as though you are thinking you need to come to some form of peace with your sexual identity in order to remove yourself from this immense unhappiness that is expressed throughout your post as well as in several other spots on the boards lately.

Oftentimes people in times of duress, immense pressure, stress, and depression, land at fixations which they feel will help them through it. It is only after they set in motion the changes that they feel will resolve this issue and find they are still just as depressed and stuck as before, that they realize that wasn't the case.

To me it sounds as though your unhappiness is real, valid and very pronounced. However when speaking of your family, wife, 3 children... That to me doesn't sound as horrible as the big picture here. Dare I say a bit of a bright spot in your life -- (a white fur rug and red pillows?) If I might be one to suggest: perhaps it isn't your sexual identity that is your issue.

Let's face it Mark. The other day you managed to find a way to make pancakes depressing. Everything looks bleak and black to you right now. Your black room with black furniture was merely a reflection of what is going on inside you right now. A person in this kind of mental state should NOT be making life altering decisions without first exploring every possible option. I say this because you mentioned you don't want to be married now (a life altering decision undoubtedly so).

Is this a sexuality thing? It's possible. I suspect this to more exhaustion and depression speaking than anything.

Here's some perspective for ya... I was floored when you said "the church I work for". I was trying to figure out how someone, as depressed as you allude to be, could possibly work for a church. It then occurred to me, perhaps that in itself is the 'lie' that you feel you're living? Perhaps that lie is that you are making appearances at church of being OK and still able to function at your position. Whereas here on the boards, you are hideously depressed. Those seem like two different worlds colliding within you and might just represent this lie of conflict which is keeping you in this state.

I say this under the assumption that the folks you work with/for have no idea of the scope/scale of your depression. Am I right? If not then scrap all that I've said.

So Mark, instead of deciding that your marriage was never supposed to happen, take some time to examine other areas of conflict within your life. Have you considered that its your job that isn't right? Could be that you need a change in another area as well... Time to change houses/neighbourhoods/states? You say something's gotta give. I have no doubt about that.

I am really going out on a limb and saying all of this to you. I don't have a lot of context to work with. I don't have the luxury of time to go review all of your other posts to become a quick study on your life. I'm making these suggestions based on the facts presented in this post and the parts about you that I can remember.

You were noticeably vague when talking about your sexual identity being in question. It could be something that terrifies you to write here. You say that you've studied more read more and prayed more and have a very different outlook on what it means to be gay. Yet you didn't divulge details on any of these discoveries of self. This self-research of yours is what is needed to obtain answers and as you stated at the bottom of your post you are not looking for any answers. That much is true and evident here.

I think I've lost sight of where I'm going with this reply. However I think I have said all that I originally set out to say to you. If you think I'm totally off base here Mark then just let me know.

I guess I just see someone who sounds ready to throw away his marriage and life as an act of desperation to end the misery he's in. Depression sucks Mark, I know it. I'm glad you opened yourself up enough to get some other thoughts and such. I wish you the best with your exploration of this. I can only hope what I've said here will help.

~Brian

_________________________
Boom!

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#214248 - 03/30/08 08:55 PM Re: Lord have mercy [Re: frost]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
Brian,

I always enjoy posts from you because you are always open with your feelings in your response - and I appreciate that.

You're pretty close to dead-on with the things you've said. And no, the people at chuch have no idea what I'm going thru. We got close to discussing it one night and I was basically told to "get over it". Which IS the response I've gotten when my abuse has come up in discussion. Just "get over it and quit letting it run my life." And before you ask - I care a great deal for the people in that church - and it is my ministry - so I'm there (hopefully) for a valid reson...

Yeah - I could have posted under "Sexuality Identity Issues" - but this really fits both places... I think. Did I post here because I wanted "spiritual" answers? I have no idea. I can only say the spiritual aspects of my identity mean a whole lot more than any sexuality issues.

I've looked at other churches - other jobs (church is not my main income) - other places to live. My wife and I have not had any real relationship for years. I can't remember the last time there was any sex - it's not exactly something high on my list of priorities.

You mention writing about my sexual identity could be something that terrifies me - and you're right. For years, I've believed that to say "I'm gay" is the same as damning me to hell. I know believe differently. BUT - there are the vows I made to my wife - vows that (at the time) I meant VERY much.

Sex isn't what I'm "craving" in a gay relationship either - love is. My T and I have discussed my sexuality some - there are just SO many issues - and one hour a week just doesn't give much time to cover many of them.

Thank you again Brain - for all you've said. It does help. The main reason I come here - because the people here do help. Open and honest communication helps. And right now I don't see things very clearly and can use all the input I can get.

M


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#214265 - 03/30/08 10:07 PM Re: Lord have mercy [Re: MarkK]
dking777 Offline
Guest

Registered: 03/17/08
Posts: 94
Loc: CA
Originally Posted By: MarkK
Not to mention I am convinced we are how God made us__and He wouldn't make someone just to hate__SO__I am also convinced God does not condemn someone for loving someone who just happens to be their same gender.


deleted




Edited by dking777 (10/25/09 01:13 AM)
_________________________
And may you be in heaven
half an hour before the devil knows you're dead.

Bittersweet Symphony

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#214343 - 03/31/08 08:47 AM Re: Lord have mercy [Re: dking777]
dancr6 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/02/07
Posts: 383
Loc: georgia
Mark, I'm responding again against my insecurities.
When I write I, in no way, believe that my opinion is any more than that.

When I read "Sex isn't what I'm "craving" in a gay relationship either - love is." it brought up a confusion that has been with me for years.

The men in my early life ignored me and I was desperate for male attention. (I believe it's an inborn need)
My perp exploited that need to groom and then deliver the final blow that changed the direction of my life forever.

I think I am and always will have the need for male attention but in my case it becomes sexualized and I know that the basic need of fatherly attention is what I'm trying to satisfy. I have no doubt that there are people who are homosexual and I think they should be able to live the life that fulfills their needs.
I experienced loving a man when I was in my late teens but because of fear of losing his friendship I never pursued the sexual aspect, (now I'm pleased with the decision, I have five wonderful children in my life and a supporting wife). He is the only male in my life that really treated me with respect and caring as if I was his equal.

I know that men can "love" men and do not judge anyone who wants to have a mutual relationship with anyone other that someone that they are exploiting.
I wish you the best in whatever decision you make with your life ad if we were physically in touch as friends I would support any decision you made.


Sincerely,
Dan

_________________________
I'm a freeman now, his authority's dead
no pain monger lies in my comfortable bed!

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#214352 - 03/31/08 10:13 AM Re: Lord have mercy [Re: dancr6]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
Thanx for all the comments, guys - but i am rapidly coming to the conclusion that i am meant to be alone.

Not exactly what i'd choose for my life - but looking at myself in the mirror - seeing the old, fat, ugly, person who returns my gaze - i am not that surprised any more.

So, once the divorce is final - i guess i'll have a lot more time to post.

i hate my life
i REALLY REALLY hate my life

m


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#214391 - 03/31/08 01:04 PM Re: Lord have mercy [Re: MarkK]
dancr6 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/02/07
Posts: 383
Loc: georgia
I hope the best for you Mark, I was alone for 9 years after my divorce and actually loved it after a short while. I had no intentions of getting married again but as fate would have it, the perfect, and I was in no way looking, person came along.
I hope you find someone to love you as much as you want to love someone. My thoughts are with you.

"Go in peace"
Dan

_________________________
I'm a freeman now, his authority's dead
no pain monger lies in my comfortable bed!

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