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#213897 - 03/29/08 08:56 AM Antwone Fisher- the Movie, A Rant!!!
awakening Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/01/08
Posts: 342
:-(



Edited by awakening (10/02/08 09:29 AM)

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#213911 - 03/29/08 09:58 AM Re: Antwone Fisher- the Movie, A Rant!!! [Re: awakening]
EGL Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 7821
Excellent post, Awakening, and I agree about the movie - I was dissappointed in it as well. It's like reality doesn't sell well in Hollywood, it has to be glamourized and made into something unreal.

And I REALLY, REALLY like your list of lies/truths - you nailed that one, my friend.

_________________________
Eddie

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#213945 - 03/29/08 12:14 PM Re: Antwone Fisher- the Movie, A Rant!!! [Re: EGL]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Awakening,

As you may know, I am writing a book on the presentation of CSA in world cinema, and this is one of the two biggest problems I have come up against so far. Most films either make no effort at all to deal with the issue of therapy, or else they misrepresent, dramatize, or trivialize it in the ways you point out. Although not a film on CSA, perhaps the most dramatic example of this is Good Will Hunting, where the kid goes through a dramatic experience of admitting the (physical) abuse he suffered as a boy wasn't his fault, and then presto chango, is all fixed up and drives into the sunset (literally!) to go get the girl.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#213951 - 03/29/08 12:47 PM Re: Antwone Fisher- the Movie, A Rant!!! *DELETED* [Re: roadrunner]
awakening Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/01/08
Posts: 342
Post deleted by awakening


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#213959 - 03/29/08 01:34 PM Re: Antwone Fisher- the Movie, A Rant!!! [Re: awakening]
jcf1957 Offline
Guest

Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 192
Loc: North Of The 49th Parallel
I saw Sybil years ago in 1976 which was based on a true story of girl portrayed by actress Sally Field who played in the 1960's TV comedy series "The Flying Nun". Sybil was abused for years by her mother. The book portrays in more harrowing detail the tragic revulsions that this girl went through by her mother for years. Eventually she developed schizophrenia and multiple personality disorder. ("Thirteen different people")
The book and the movie are very upsetting to say the least.
At least that's how I perceived them.
I never did see "The Three Faces of Eve" nor do I really want to.

_________________________
No affliction nor temptation, no guilt nor power of sin, no wounded spirit nor terrified conscious should induce us to despair comfort from God.

Today well lived...makes every tomorrow a vision of Hope.
Anonymous

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#214004 - 03/29/08 05:05 PM Re: Antwone Fisher- the Movie, A Rant!!! [Re: jcf1957]
alexey Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 1674
Loc: Moscow, Russia
I agree on Antwone Fisher. It is not a good movie.

My T summed it up as follows: "Movie directors don't consult with psychotherapists when they make movies about them."

I was so grossed out at some scenes of the therapy work in that movie.

The director, or story writer, cut several years worth of good therapy work, added to that perfect relationship building line and TADA - the guy is happy and has found the love of his life. Stupid, but not without tears in the eyes.

The good movie is "Mysterious Skin". Although I am not American, I liked how the characters were presented.

Alexey



Edited by alexey (03/29/08 05:06 PM)
_________________________
(\__/)
(='.'=)
E[:]|||||[:]3
(")_(")
--------
When you feel all alone and unhappy, turn to you Inner Child and talk to Him.
You will see He can comfort you like nothing else!

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#214006 - 03/29/08 05:20 PM Re: Antwone Fisher- the Movie, A Rant!!! *DELETED* [Re: alexey]
awakening Offline
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Registered: 01/01/08
Posts: 342
Post deleted by awakening


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#214007 - 03/29/08 05:29 PM Re: Antwone Fisher- the Movie, A Rant!!! [Re: awakening]
LandOfShadow Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 684
Loc: Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
I recently watched this movie and I guess my expectations were lower... lol. I was surprized to see as much as I did on CSA, especially a male abused by a female. I suppose that was just to avoid something homosexual... But I'm glad you are saying this. I did notice the lies, but I did wonder how the reality could have been conveyed in a movie/drauma. I'm sure there is a way though, there always is with creativity.

The reality:
I've had 4 years of therapy at a current dollar cost of about $20,000. That's major medical. And my T says I'm just getting through phase 1 of 3...

LOL. Women. It's been 30 years and I still would like to have a girlfriend, but am too afraid...

My family has never asked about the abuse, effects or anything. I'd love to talk about it, but they just don't get that something so long ago still matters.

I never told anyone in childhood about the abuse. I didn't remember some of it until my 40's.

My first real therapist was not bad with the abuse I suppose. He didn't have the huge boundary problems shown in the movie, which would probably be grounds for professional misconduct complaints.

I won't even begin to list all the effects. A whole freakin' world more than a lot of anger.

It's taken years to work on some of these effects. It's very complicated. There's a retraumatizing factor that can make talking about it just re-inforce the fears and effects. It sure isn't that simple.

Yes, just joining a team, the Navy, a church, even finding a wife doesn't in itself do a thing to help you break down the isolation effects.

Awakening, I really thank you for this post. I kind of bought all the lies here without knowing it. My reality is way different now that I really look. I thought that perhaps it's better than nothing, but why couldn't they just tell the truth? People believe the lies and it creates a bigger mess.

_________________________
Et par le pouvoir d’un mot Je recommence ma vie, Je suis né pour te connaître, Pour te nommer
Liberté

And by the power of a single word I can begin my life again, I was born to know you, to name you
Freedom

Paul Eluard

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#214019 - 03/29/08 06:09 PM Re: Antwone Fisher- the Movie, A Rant!!! [Re: LandOfShadow]
alexey Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 1674
Loc: Moscow, Russia
Pozhaluysta!

Aleksey

_________________________
(\__/)
(='.'=)
E[:]|||||[:]3
(")_(")
--------
When you feel all alone and unhappy, turn to you Inner Child and talk to Him.
You will see He can comfort you like nothing else!

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#214025 - 03/29/08 06:26 PM Re: Antwone Fisher- the Movie, A Rant!!! [Re: alexey]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6453
Loc: Right Behind You!
Awakening,

THANK YOU for this review. You just saved me 2 hours of my life and a ton of gas money going to rent and return the bloody thing!

_________________________
Keep the others in your life happy - Comply Comply Comply

The Aftermath Video

My Absolute Hero!

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#237612 - 07/12/08 12:18 AM Re: Antwone Fisher- the Movie, A Rant!!! [Re: Still]
LN3(SS) Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/20/08
Posts: 486
Loc: MD
You know what really bothers me about this movie. It's not the CSA aspects of the flick. It's the fact that they portray the Navy as what it is, a place that will use you and then lose you, and NO ONE even thinks about getting upset about that. Look at the actions of the officers around the main character. His Captain takes his rank, fines him and sends him for a psych exam because he defended himself against a racist. The shrink tells him bluntly that he only gets so many sessions and that he don't care what happens to the main character. But yet no one seems to get offended at the fact that THIS SHIT REALLY HAPPENS!! Don't get me wrong, the CSA aspect of the movie is important, but set back and take a look at what is happening to Antwone Fisher - the sailor.

_________________________
"When we go into battle, I will be the first to set foot on the field, and I will be the last to step off, and I will leave no one behind. Dead, or alive, we will all come home together." LTG Hal Moore, Jr., USA (Ret.)

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#237688 - 07/12/08 02:45 PM Re: Antwone Fisher- the Movie, A Rant!!! [Re: LN3(SS)]
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
I'll be on the other side..... liked the movie a lot, the thing I see is that it was his story. It may not be completely accurate because his actual life wasn't filmed like a documentary while all the events happened. I don't believe that all the things you guys listed are intentionally bad in movies like that. I don't think that every movie that comes out has to speak dictatingly about a subject. I can understand how some of you would like for something like that to speak volumes for you in order to get the word out to the ignorant masses but the clueless people don't see everything in such detail like some of us can. On how they portrayed the military.... a lot of that was on point, it's not like the civilian world. I had a rough time when my command pushed toward getting me discharged, zero compassion or understanding but that was just them as individuals. I did have support from others outside my command who did have hearts. I shouldn't have been discharged like I was in the end, it was very hurtful thing that was done to me in order to protect themselves. I'm probably one of the only guys who would want to go back through Marine Corps bootcamp which I'll never get to do again.

_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

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#237793 - 07/13/08 12:15 AM Re: Antwone Fisher- the Movie, A Rant!!! [Re: usmc97]
LN3(SS) Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/20/08
Posts: 486
Loc: MD
I can't believe I'm hearing this! THEM AS INDIVIDUALS?!? I respect your right to an opinion, but I just can't see this one. When a military psychiatrist is willing to violate his ethical standards to say that a rape is a "longstanding disorder of character and behavior" and a command is willing to endorse that, it is NOT individuals. Antwone Fisher showed that side of the military, and people turned a blind eye to it because they chose to see the "feel good" aspect of a man receiving healing from his childhood abuse. I loved being a submariner, I loved being in Legal Departments at Pearl Harbor and San Diego. But, tragically, Antwone Fisher revictimizes people that were victims of military psychiatry and needs to be CONDEMNED as such!!

_________________________
"When we go into battle, I will be the first to set foot on the field, and I will be the last to step off, and I will leave no one behind. Dead, or alive, we will all come home together." LTG Hal Moore, Jr., USA (Ret.)

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#237834 - 07/13/08 10:30 AM Re: Antwone Fisher- the Movie, A Rant!!! [Re: LN3(SS)]
KENKEN Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/25/07
Posts: 762
Loc: NOTHERN COLORADO
For me the movie was help in my healing process/healing journey.

I was asked by my T to watch it for one reason only. I was to look at the strength and determination Antwone had at the end when he confronted his family members regarding his abuse. I am going to do the very same thing, confronting, soon.

Perhaps I am selfish for only looking at what the movie will do/has done for me.

Like USMC said above, it is his story, we all have one.

Ken

_________________________
I AM A GOOD PERSON, I AM A GOOD MAN

From the Movie: Antwone Fisher

***WOR ALUMNI SEQUOIA MARCH 2008***

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#238112 - 07/14/08 02:48 PM Re: Antwone Fisher- the Movie, A Rant!!! [Re: KENKEN]
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
My doctors where all Navy, I do not blame the Corps or the Navy for what happened to me personally. I was at the mercy of a line of individuals that chose to be ignorant and trust that what they were told was truth. What was done to me is different from what they did to you. I don't want you upset or anybody else. If it was a movie about you it would be completely different as so with me. It was just his story.

_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

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#238131 - 07/14/08 05:04 PM Re: Antwone Fisher- the Movie, A Rant!!! [Re: awakening]
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
awakening, I watched the movie, and was as impressed with some of it, because of the actual factual screenplay by fisher.
It is however a fairy story of someone making their abuse work for them.

Who? Will cry for the little boy! I will, over and over again.

It is too political to identify abuse in a factual manner, in a way that really shows the hurt of each little boy, but, they could never convey such a story to the public.

One good thing, is that is not fictional, even though, it can be seen as just that, but some of the fictional movies just cannot fit CSA cause and effect.

No two stories are the same, but if movie makers made factual accounts of abused kids in a series without the political correctness that society demands in what they watch, then, and only then, can we address the reality.

The majority of the films portray us as damaged goods, or even worse, future abusers

If only we had a voice, but, I guess they could not stomach what really is what life can be for an abused kid,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#239804 - 07/23/08 04:57 PM Re: Antwone Fisher- the Movie, A Rant!!! [Re: reality2k4]
LN3(SS) Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/20/08
Posts: 486
Loc: MD
Maybe I was being a little vocal in my condemnation of this movie.
Ken said that his T had him watch it for one aspect of it only. My question after thinking about the responses I read is:

"How do I detach enough from the abusive aspects of the movie to watch this movie for the other parts that might actually be good cinema or helpful for me?"

For me, the abuse I suffered through Navy psychiatry, and the Navy in general, was incredible. It still resonates within me to the point where I have trust issues with my T and shrink.

_________________________
"When we go into battle, I will be the first to set foot on the field, and I will be the last to step off, and I will leave no one behind. Dead, or alive, we will all come home together." LTG Hal Moore, Jr., USA (Ret.)

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#239808 - 07/23/08 05:07 PM Re: Antwone Fisher- the Movie, A Rant!!! [Re: LN3(SS)]
Barkabus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 809
Brian,

Have you thought about telling your T and shrink that you have trust issues with them? What kind of risk to you think there is in having this discussion?

I haven't seen Antwone Fisher. As you describe it, I can understand why you have issues with this film. I feel a little guilty in that I may have helped feed your distrust. I hope I haven't done that.

Mike

_________________________
My Story

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#239863 - 07/23/08 08:01 PM Re: Antwone Fisher- the Movie, A Rant!!! [Re: awakening]
CDavid Offline


Registered: 07/05/08
Posts: 184
LN3(SS),


I have a sense of what you are talking about, LN3(SS).

My father was a manic and an alcoholic and we had constant contact with the psychiatrists responsible for his care (why am I tempted to say...and feeding here?).

They failed miserably. They failed him and the entire family. Which is why I have a bias about any therapist with more than a Master's level education. But, that's me, my stuff.

The first thing my current therapist did, that shocked me, was took trust off of the table. The first several sessions we took many things off of the table.

If a therapist suggests that trust is a prerequisite for therapy then, I'd walk away. Trust might very well be something that develops during the process...but if they tell me they can not work with me if I do not trust them, they've got more issues than Life magazine. Run away, run away.

And, it is an excellent topic for therapy...because trust is a funny thing. It can be very specific. You may or may not trust your psychiatrist to prescribe and dispense meds, but not trust them to hear your story.


\:D

CD


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#239882 - 07/23/08 08:42 PM Re: Antwone Fisher- the Movie, A Rant!!! [Re: awakening]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Sorry, just now noticed this:

Originally Posted By: awakening
Larry,
are there ANY movies/films out there that stay true to the stories of CSA of a boy?

Well, yes, but all films will suffer from one defect or another. Several of the ones I have seen that I thought did a good (but not flawless) job on abuse issues were:

Mysterious Skin - The lives of two boys abused by a coach at age 8 come together again at age 17.

Celebration - Son denounces his perp father at a family reunion.

Vito and the Others - On the plight of street kids in Naples, with sexual abuse being just another part of their broken lives.

Eban and Charley - Issue of the abused boy who loves the perp.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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