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#213601 - 03/27/08 09:24 PM Mom
mogigo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 1331
Loc: Colorado
I've had a real tough time with this since my Mother passed away, she was one of my abuser's. Thanks to such strong support from my Brothers I've managed to face this reality, I buried away the reality for a long time. I blamed my rape at 15 for all the problems I've had but it's pretty clear now that most of my issues are the result of my Mother.

I was watching a taco commercial and I had the same guilt about her that caused me the denial of the problems she has caused me. I know she loved me, so much so that it became abusive. I did become a replacement Husband for her. Won't get into the details of the problems this has caused me but I'm sure most of you can imagine.

The real problem is this guilt I have for thinking badly of her, I can actually say with conviction now that she was abusive but also that she loved me. It just doesn't seem to go together, the feelings I have for her. Like Larry says "a mind fucker". I'm trying to be okay with the love/hate thing but it's really doing a number. Like a said a simple taco commercial is like a punch in the face.

How dare I think badly of her, she made me taco's

Ugh.

stay strong
Mike

_________________________
Thriving

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#213609 - 03/27/08 09:46 PM Re: Mom *DELETED* [Re: mogigo]
awakening Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/01/08
Posts: 342
Post deleted by awakening


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#213612 - 03/27/08 09:52 PM Re: Mom [Re: awakening]
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
Wow Mike, I don't know WHAT to tell you on this, it's totally outside of my realm of experience. The only advice I have as to how you might best work on these issues is to talk to other survivors who's mothers were involved. I would like to hear what they have to say about your current situation.


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#213630 - 03/27/08 11:49 PM Re: Mom [Re: mogigo]
dking777 Offline
Guest

Registered: 03/17/08
Posts: 94
Loc: CA
Originally Posted By: mogigo

The real problem is this guilt I have for thinking badly of her, I can actually say with conviction now that she was abusive but also that she loved me. It just doesn't seem to go together, the feelings I have for her. Like Larry says "a mind fucker". I'm trying to be okay with the love/hate thing but it's really doing a number.
Mike






Edited by dking777 (10/06/09 02:08 AM)
_________________________
And may you be in heaven
half an hour before the devil knows you're dead.

Bittersweet Symphony

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#213631 - 03/28/08 12:14 AM Re: Mom [Re: dking777]
mogigo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 1331
Loc: Colorado
\:\( thank you Dave, just thank you, I don't know how to feel. That has been my hardest moment, the hardest "thing" of my life. Thank you for making me feel I'm not alone.

I just don't know how to feel about her, my Mother. She was my Mother, she loved me but she hurt me so very very badly. It's so very hard.

Thank you dave, I love you, if I can ever be of some help to you know that I am here for you.

Stay strong
Mike

_________________________
Thriving

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#213644 - 03/28/08 01:56 AM Re: Mom [Re: mogigo]
Freedom49 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 2723
Loc: Washington State
God mike I have that same delimma with my dad. He was my dad and he did some good things for me. I don't want to hate him either but sometimes I am just so angry at how me messed up my like and well the whole damn family with his sickness. I did try to love him he gave me life and provided for me. I just don't know It is so confusing. I do like what dave says above. I have tried to do that and honor him and hate his sin but I am just so confused I don't know what I feel anymore.


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#213838 - 03/28/08 11:00 PM Re: Mom [Re: Freedom49]
dannym Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/24/07
Posts: 543
Loc: Boulder, Colorado
Mike,

I can't offer you much here, but I think a big part of your dilemna may be driven by societal expectations.

Mothers are always good
Mothers give up everything for their kids
Mothers give their kids unconditional love

How can you hate someone so pure! But your mother, despite her efforts to be a good parent, abused you. She instilled feelings of guilt, shame, fear, and self-hatred in you by her actions - and she was wrong. She made you tacos... she made you feel inadequate. She was the pillor of her community... she tried to beat the "man" out of her son.

I think a woman with such a duplicitous nature deserves both love and hate.... but I understand how wrong it feels to "hate" your mother.

I have been thinking about this for so long. I was talking with a friend yesterday, and we were discussing "pity". I think that maybe something she deserves... your pity.

I hope my words are not too harsh - forgive me if they are.

much love to you,
Dan

_________________________
"You should listen to your heart, and not the voices in your head."

Marge Simpson

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#213878 - 03/29/08 02:12 AM Re: Mom [Re: dannym]
mogigo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 1331
Loc: Colorado
Thanks guy's,

Roger, I know. I felt it a while ago, Love you Brother. The song I sent you has allowed me to cry over it. Allowed me some release, I can only hope it lets you release some of it to. It's too late Roger, but I'm there with you Brother.

No Dan, not too harsh. Thank you for being there for me, do you know what that's worth, it's worth everything, Thank you.

Love you
Stay strong
Michael

_________________________
Thriving

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#213956 - 03/29/08 01:12 PM Re: Mom [Re: mogigo]
dave999 Offline
New Here

Registered: 02/07/08
Posts: 23
Loc: Canada
Mike - I am in the same boat as you. I was sexually abused by my mother - physically and seductively up until about age 12- this is when I erected the "wall" - I would not let her touch me, kiss me, called her by her first name. My father was in poor health - weak and she was abusive to him. I in a sense had became her surrogate husband - she manipulated me with guilt to get me to do what she wanted - if I didn't do what she wanted she would cry - and my father would say "now look at what you did to your mother". This started when I was very young - I became passive and submissive - the experience (weak father, sexually and emotionally abusive mother) served to separate my self from the male side of my being. The wall served to isolate me from her but it also isolated me from people and today I struggle with the repercussions. I had repressed rationalized away the memories about this until about one year ago - at a late stage in life I acknowledged for the first time what had actually happened to me and the impact that it has had on me in so many ways - no close male friends, problems with intimacy, problems with sexual identity. Mothers are tricky - they can use their "mothering" skills and attributes to manipulate - we are taught and are supposed to trust and love our mothers - but what happens when they can't be trusted - when they trash our boundaries? They may is some sick way "love us" but they are still responsible for what they did. The problem is that we cut them slack on this because they are our mother - we some how think it is our fault - they helped to make us feel this way - the guilt is huge - the struggle is to know that they did it, that they are responsible for doing it and that you were their victim. We get this all screwed up - and end up thinking that we were responsible. One day we may be able to forgive our mothers - but they still did it to us and they are responsible. I just wanted you to know that you are not alone - take your self back, keep the responsibility for the abuse where it belongs and try to forgive - forgiveness does not mean you condone or let them off of the hook for what they did - once we can forgive - we are free
Dave



Edited by dave999 (03/29/08 01:22 PM)

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#213979 - 03/29/08 03:08 PM Re: Mom [Re: dave999]
hogan_dawg Offline
Guest

Registered: 03/26/08
Posts: 492
"... they can use their "mothering" skills and attributes to manipulate - we are taught and are supposed to trust and love our mothers - but what happens when they can't be trusted - when they trash our boundaries?" I think we had the same Mom.

Agreed that forgiveness would be great if you can get there!

I too felt I was responsible somehow for my abuse. In my case my Mother neglected to address the situation. She seems to have been bullied into submission.

Cheers, Dawg



Edited by hogan_dawg (03/29/08 04:59 PM)
_________________________
I can say unequivocally that the lie of "To truly heal you must first forgive" has derailed more victims than the abusers themselves.
Andrew Vachs, 2003

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#213986 - 03/29/08 03:54 PM Re: Mom [Re: dking777]
king tut Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/13/08
Posts: 2466
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: dking777
It boils down to something my Grandfather passed on to me. It was his daughter walking with the dieased mind. He told me to remember the "good book" - and hate the sin and not the sinner. Or - hate the crime and not the criminal. When he told me that, he knew the subject matter concerned the fact it was possible I was going to wake up one day - and recall and realize - that my Mother (and his Daughter) was a child molester and I was her victim for many years.

So - that is how I dealt with it in the past - and how I am trying to cope with it now. My Mom walked with a terrible sin and I hate what it did to the both of us - but I don't hate her.

Instead of feeling sorry for myself -- I feel sorry for her. I feel that is where the sorrow belongs. On her and not me. My prayer is - that "God has mercy" on her soul. I say that because with her dieased mind - she don't realize the hurt, damage, pain, angish, and the harm she has done to me in my life. I have a feeling when it comes time for her to face her Creator -- he is going to dump all that pain on top of her - and then - maybe she will shed a tear or two - knowing what it was like to walk a mile in my shoe. I wouldn't wish the pain I carry inside me on my worst enemy - much less my own Mother.


i like that idea, to hate the crime and not the criminal, the idea that it is a disease of the mind, actually in a story i've been writing there is a disease of the mind, and that kind of abuse does come out as a side affect in my story. i think i know why my story is so theraputic to me now, because it is about the crime and not the criminal, i have tonnes of love hate things going on im my story, and in my story everything makes so much sense.

thanks for that, i feel like you've brought me closer to healing

_________________________
"...until lambs become lions"

I love you, little lewis, and i will never leave you. We are the same. You brighten my day, and i will make sure that i brighten yours. Hugs and kisses.


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#213991 - 03/29/08 04:11 PM Re: Mom [Re: mogigo]
TNuss Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 202
Loc: Del-A-Ware???
Originally Posted By: mogigo
...I don't know how to feel. That has been my hardest moment, the hardest "thing" of my life. Thank you for making me feel I'm not alone.

I just don't know how to feel about her, my Mother. She was my Mother, she loved me but she hurt me so very very badly. It's so very hard.


Ok, let me say this first, I saw this post last evening and hoped it would just go away, b/c it trumps up my own issues; unhealthily better left unattended to. Rather then wish this posting would go a way, I will post. Your statement hits right at the heart of my issue.

I love my mother, not because she made me tacos, but more so because she gave me life and deep inside I know she loves me. She came from a crappy childhood and she made sure we knew that. She did this so we knew just how good we had it. My mother did not overtly sexual abuse me, but she did engage in inappropriate activities of physical touch that I feel taught me at a young age that it was acceptable to have physical connected with other people.

When I started to dealing with my abuse I had a lot of confusion and did know what to do, so I shared it with my mother. She took it as I was confronting and accusing her for everything. I was just seeking answers, which her reaction truly provided. At the same time I tried to come out with my sexual identity conflicts, WOW, itís amazing what the bible and Jesus our Lord GOD says about homosexuality. Her ďthrow of the bibleĒ at me lead to a lot more questioning of who I truly was as a man, as well as my lose of faith in the bible as I was taught. This was all 10 years ago now, Iím still not comfortable out, but inside I know who I am and I have been able to find faith as an Unitarian, which allows me to be comfortable with my own belief system. Itís all about personal healing.

Mike, back to your statement, last August, my mother called to tell me she had thyroid cancer and needed to see a thyroid specialist. Working in a retirement community, I told not a problem I find you the best in the area. The next day, I went fishing with my Pop, he noticed I was perplexed by something, so I told him of my motherís call and that even though I offered to help her, I felt nothing, NO feeling of compassion for her illness. I was more upset, because I didnít feel anything, then I was with the thought that my mother, the woman that gave me life might be dying of thyroid cancer. My Pop and I donít normally talk about her, but this was an acceptation. He just listened and offered no real advice, but did say he understood and I would too. When I went to work the follow week I talk to our director of nursing and another for suggestion for a doctor. I shared want I knew of her condition and so on. I called with what I had learned and within a week, her cancer was gone.

This my friend, was the point I regained the part of myself that she always controlled. The part when I was able to end the reputation or cycle of the control over me. I will weep when she passes, but no more will she control my feelings and be able to effect my life that way she did when I was a child.

Sorry to ramble, but I think I healthily spoke out about my issues related to my mother and WOW do I feel better for doing so. THANK YOU!!!

TAKE CARE!!! XO

_________________________
All my best!!!

In harmony,
Troy
________________________________________________________
I hug myself daily until the day I find the embrace that completes me.

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#213993 - 03/29/08 04:29 PM Re: Mom [Re: TNuss]
mogigo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 1331
Loc: Colorado
(((Troy)))

I to wished this post would go away, but hey it's from me right? the problem is it's not going anywhere until I look at it and deal with it.

Stay strong
Mike

_________________________
Thriving

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#213994 - 03/29/08 04:31 PM Re: Mom [Re: mogigo]
TNuss Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 202
Loc: Del-A-Ware???
So true Brother, so so true! Stay strong!!!

_________________________
All my best!!!

In harmony,
Troy
________________________________________________________
I hug myself daily until the day I find the embrace that completes me.

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#214011 - 03/29/08 05:34 PM Re: Mom *DELETED* [Re: TNuss]
awakening Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/01/08
Posts: 342
Post deleted by awakening


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#214013 - 03/29/08 05:54 PM Re: Mom [Re: awakening]
hogan_dawg Offline
Guest

Registered: 03/26/08
Posts: 492
Good question "Does it really end when they die?" and I am sure I don't know the answer. I'm in a similar spot in that both parents are nearing the end of their lives.

I struggle with disclosure and the kind of completion one gets with a public disclosure and a reckoning - it concerns validation. I've had my voice invalidated since day one because the perp wanted to hide the evidence way inside my soul. If he kept my credibility covered with mud, the truth couldn't emerge. Also, I've been kept 'down' all my life by this event too.

So should I hate the crime and not the criminal? Why hate anyone? Why not just 'turn that frown upside down', and get public validation, or at least make the effort and let the chips fall with the Police in public?

I guess I don't do that yet because I know the consequences on my bringing it to the Police include the disintegration of the entire family, with me losing a place in the family.

You guys talk about tough stuff.

_________________________
I can say unequivocally that the lie of "To truly heal you must first forgive" has derailed more victims than the abusers themselves.
Andrew Vachs, 2003

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#214061 - 03/29/08 09:00 PM Re: Mom [Re: hogan_dawg]
onlyakid Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1552
Loc: New Jersey
Mike,
Its difficult to seperate your feelings for a family member who is also an abuser. My brother is my abuser and we have a good relationship to this day, and its not easy but I'm learning to seperate how I feel about what he did and how I feel about him as a brother. When you think about a perp, most people think of some sick monster and I just don't see that in my brother, I see a good father, a good brother, a good husband.

Jason

_________________________
"Being with people that understand you...Priceless"

"and i don't want the world to see me, cause i don't think that they'd understand"

"You don't know what love is...you just do as your told"

"My life has changed. What you take as a simple thing, is not so simple for me anymore"


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#215451 - 04/04/08 10:44 PM Re: Mom [Re: onlyakid]
dave999 Offline
New Here

Registered: 02/07/08
Posts: 23
Loc: Canada
I am sorry to report to everyone that from my own experience it does not die when your mother dies. Both of my parents have died and it was several years after my mom's death that I actually got in touch with her CSA of me. The problem is that the pain and injury resides within each of us and so changing the external world has little impact. The sad reality is that we are left with the effects and have to deal with the impact and trying to understand what we did and continue to do to protect ourselves - painful but true - Dave


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#215486 - 04/05/08 12:32 AM Re: Mom [Re: dave999]
Iroll Offline
New Here

Registered: 04/04/08
Posts: 8
Sorry jtt5254..... but I don't see my brother who is my abuser in that way. He abused me about 50 years ago and I have just recently learned that he did this to me and I still have no specific memories of the abuse though it happened for 3 years. I never want to see him again. And if I do see him I fear that I would tear his f***ing head from his shoulders and stuff it up his a**!! Even though I am paralyzed from the waist down, I often visualize my self performing his undoing from my wheelchair!! LOL


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