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#211369 - 03/17/08 11:16 PM self worth
Jarrad Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/06
Posts: 1071
Loc: arizona
how do you determine self worth? i was talking to a guy tonight and he was saying that there is a lot about me that makes me special. and i automatically think in terms of (and im not trying to be cocky) but in terms of my good looks, that i am able to function day to day at work. that i have a great hot job. but he was saying that it is beyond that and i just dont understand what he means. i think everyone knows i was first involved with porn then prositution. so for me.. your worth is your body. its about using it to make money. and using it to get what you want. what then was he talking about? how do "normal" people see themselves? and im not trying to come off shallow... i just really am interested.


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#211370 - 03/17/08 11:26 PM Re: self worth [Re: Jarrad]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
ok - give me a second to stop grinning (trying not to be cocky) ...
ok ok ok - sorry - but i couldn't let that one pass...

from what i hear from others a "normal" view of self worth comes with:
* respect from your peers
* honor
* trustworthy - someone who sticks with his friends
* honest

from what little i know of you from here, Jarrad, i'd say you are a person of worth. i believe if i ask you a question about something that truly matters to me - you will give it an honest "heart-felt" answer.

the real trick, however, seems to be the "self" part of self worth. i understand what others see in me as "worth" - but seeing it myself ... just not there yet.

m


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#211384 - 03/18/08 12:31 AM Re: self worth [Re: MarkK]
Freedom49 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 2723
Loc: Washington State
Jarrad,
To me self worth means not just how I look or what I own, or who I am with, or what I do for a living. All that is superficial and temporary and will eventually change. SELF worth to me is that I am honest with others, that I have character, morala, ethic and behavior that is healthy and beneficial not only to my mental and emotional and spiritual well being but also to those I come in contact wtih. Am I someone other people would trust? Am I someone they could confide in and be assured I would keep that confidence? Will I be trustworthy, honorable, loyal to my ethics not just today but 10 or 20 years from today even? Am I someone they can depend on to keep my word no matter what?
These to me are a part of my self worth. Things, attributes that I can take pride in and feel good about.
To me this is self worth. I hope that helps.


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#211442 - 03/18/08 10:25 AM Re: self worth [Re: Freedom49]
Jarrad Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/06
Posts: 1071
Loc: arizona
respect from your peers
honor
trustworthy - someone who sticks with his friends
honest
character
moral
ethic

okay so thats the list between you guys. feel free to add anything that i missed. my question is then, how do you get all that. or if i already have it, how do i use those instead of my default thinking


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#211443 - 03/18/08 10:35 AM Re: self worth [Re: Jarrad]
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 11087
Loc: Denver, CO
"how do i use those instead of my default thinking"

You may already be utilizing many of these, but simply haven't received the feedback indicating so. For me, people would tell me positive feedback over the years, and I was like "Really??"

Andy

_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

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#211446 - 03/18/08 11:04 AM Re: self worth [Re: FormerTexan]
Freedom49 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 2723
Loc: Washington State
Jarrad I have seen you use some of them here in your posts. I think hanging out with us here on the board, hanging out with people who also value these things brings out those things in each of us. I think we tend to blend with the company we keep sometimes. If we hang out with ppl who have those qualities they tend to bring out those qualities in us. Hate to admit it but Mom was right. I am known by the company I keep.


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#211447 - 03/18/08 11:13 AM Re: self worth [Re: Freedom49]
ineffable Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/08
Posts: 1371
Loc: state of holeecrapdood
I'm up for the Jarrad challenge... if yer gayme
(Jarrad? challenging?)
\:\)
anytime I am in yer cyber presence, if I read you demonstrating things that are important for you being self aware of
I will be honoured to bring to your attention
I think we need others to point things out to us because the truth of it is
some of our qualities are second nature & maybe even taken for granted

Reading the compiled list & from my knowledge of you I know
bringing things to your attention may be easier for me than for you to hear J
let me know if you want a compliment or self worth quality warning mon!

what happened to us was bad
but we were always good
therefore
you are a good man Jarrad

Craig



Edited by ineffable (03/18/08 11:24 AM)
_________________________
:: "Anyone who can handle a needle convincingly can make us see a thread which is not there" ::


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#211519 - 03/18/08 05:12 PM Re: self worth [Re: ineffable]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
my guess is you may be in roughly the same spot i am - i find i use those "qualities" all the time - when in respect to others. the REAL issue (for me anyhoo) is finding a way to use them and allow others to use them to me

and there, i'm afraid, all i can say is i'm still workin on it ...

m


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#211539 - 03/18/08 07:09 PM Re: self worth [Re: MarkK]
Freedom49 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 2723
Loc: Washington State
MarkK
That your working on it, that you understand it, that you appreciate it, says good things about your character and self worth to me. It should to you also.


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#211560 - 03/18/08 09:16 PM Re: self worth [Re: Freedom49]
Jarrad Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/06
Posts: 1071
Loc: arizona
challenge accepted craig.


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#211663 - 03/19/08 10:34 AM Re: self worth [Re: Jarrad]
Jarrad Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/06
Posts: 1071
Loc: arizona
"If we hang out with ppl who have those qualities they tend to bring out those qualities in us."

roger,
haha yeah that's true but its funny, i think about the guys here and sometimes i go "wtf. im different then guys here" part of me wants to believe that. i think some of the guys here are the company i should be keeping, but i also think that i should be able to function in any crowd. sometimes i cant pick the crowd i run with. sure i can pick my friends. but not coworkers and all that. i dont know. maybe im just making up excuses.


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#211670 - 03/19/08 11:15 AM Re: self worth [Re: Jarrad]
GateKPR4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/28/07
Posts: 955
Loc: North Carolina, USA
I think part of self worth is what you have to offer in life. Helping others is part of that. I think you have done this Jarrad.
You may have different views on some tings but that is what makes places like this work. We are not robots and you have helped may of us see things for what they are, and not what we perceive them to be. That is valuable and add to self worth. just my 2 cents \:\)

_________________________
I'm a normal person dealing with abnormal experiences.
The greatest discoveries we will find within ourselves.
Ricky
__m_τΏτ_m__
|| || || || || || |

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#211695 - 03/19/08 01:31 PM Re: self worth [Re: GateKPR4]
Freedom49 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 2723
Loc: Washington State
Jarrad I think because of your history you may have gotten into the habit of being what you think the "crowd" or ppl your with want you to be. It definately helped you in many situations to be successuful in whatever was required of you at the moment. The trouble is that once we get into pattern of being that way it is very hard to find and return to our "Center" of who we really are or want to be.

I found that true in my case. I had to really dig into my heart to find and return to what and who I really wanted to be and be known as. That was very hard for me and I had to eventually drop some people from my circle of friends as they tended not to understand and try to pull me back to my cameleon like ways which served me so well when I was in a different place mentally and didn't care.



Edited by Freedom49 (03/19/08 01:34 PM)

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#211700 - 03/19/08 01:54 PM Re: self worth [Re: Freedom49]
VLinvictus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/05/07
Posts: 273
Loc: NY
One part of me claims to believe that every human being is of infinite value and worth, that a person's self-worth is inherent and unalieable from his very identity, and that no measure can be applied to it. Since we are all (presumably) human, we are all of infinite value.

The other part of me then tells me, "You are nothing but an animated sack of meat that will in the not-too-distant future decay into putrescence. You came from nothing, you'll return to nothing, you are nothing. You have no talents or skills and no one really likes you. Everyone else is better than you in every conceivable way. You're worthless and always will be."

Interesting how the positive voice is impersonal and reported speech while the negative voice is personal and quoted.

There was a Chasidic rebbe who used to keep a scrap of paper in his right pocket on which he had written "I am but dust and ashes." In his left pocket, he wrote "For my sake the universe was created." In this way, he maintained a proper perspective. When he felt bad, he'd reach into the left pocket and read the paper; when he felt good, he'd reach into the right pocket.

Intellectually, I can hold both concepts in my mind. Emotionally, I seem to have a hole in my left pocket...

_________________________
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
~ Oscar Wilde

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#211703 - 03/19/08 02:16 PM Re: self worth [Re: VLinvictus]
markgreyblue Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/19/03
Posts: 5400
Loc: Pasadena, CA
self worth is intermittent for me as well. I've come to the conclusion though - despite someone else's efforts to put me down and keep me down I will no longer abide by that artificial position - even though I may feel the effects of it. Push forward. I am not sure I feel so special all the time - in fact -I never used to. I think though - feeling ok about yourself sometimes is a good sign - having faith - through the cement of bad times - is good too.

_________________________
"...do not look outside yourself for the leader."
-wisdom of the hopi elders

"...the sign of a true leader is service..." - anonymous



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#211752 - 03/19/08 08:46 PM Re: self worth [Re: Jarrad]
dgoods Offline
Guest

Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 622
Loc: Richmond area
How good-looking i am, or how charming i can be, has always meant nothing terribly good or important to me... the first i have never had any control over, and has been a source of discomfort at best; the second has always been a matter of survival, and nothing more- nothing to do with who i AM. When i feel cold, uncaring, and determined to teach the ignorant by means of an object lesson on how to get by, i revert to behaviors that exemplify "survival by any means neccessary".
There is more to life than winning the game presented to us by the most selfish among us; at least those i admire seem to teach such a lesson, and not the one taught by those who abuse.

_________________________
Give sorrow words: the grief that does not speak
Whispers the o'er-fraught heart and bids it break.

-William Shakespeare, Macbeth, Act IV, Sc. III

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#211783 - 03/19/08 10:44 PM Re: self worth [Re: dgoods]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Jarrad,

Well done. You're on your way.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#211853 - 03/20/08 09:34 AM Re: self worth [Re: roadrunner]
Jarrad Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/06
Posts: 1071
Loc: arizona
"There was a Chasidic rebbe who used to keep a scrap of paper in his right pocket on which he had written "I am but dust and ashes." In his left pocket, he wrote "For my sake the universe was created." In this way, he maintained a proper perspective. When he felt bad, he'd reach into the left pocket and read the paper; when he felt good, he'd reach into the right pocket."

thats a really neat story.

see its funny. i can confrom to pretty much anything people need. i picked up these skills from abuse, but i dont know if its a bad thing. but i do it so often i have no idea what is my authentic self. so i can sit on the boards here and post about wahtever and i get brownie points for using the quailities that were discussed before. and everyone says "good job jarrad." but do i mean it, or am i just playing you all? am i doing it just because i want to be preceived in another way, or do i really mean it.


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#211857 - 03/20/08 10:12 AM Re: self worth [Re: Jarrad]
DanM Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/09/07
Posts: 540
Loc: So. California
Well, only you know that.


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#211858 - 03/20/08 10:14 AM Re: self worth [Re: Jarrad]
dgoods Offline
Guest

Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 622
Loc: Richmond area
Sometimes i think of myself as being not too different from a "street crazy", in the sense of, "Well, maybe my words may not not be readily understandable, or always directly relevant, but at least i'm still here, and trying to communicate with others".
Even if the majority of people never make it past the "dog and pony show" that is as natural as breathing to me, i have found that there's at least one or two who care enough, and are intelligent enough, to outwait the antics, and give the message of, "when you're finally too tired to worry about what i think, and realize you can't scare me off, maybe then- you'll find that true friends aren't just a fantasy for fools."
The scariest thing in the world for me can be the idea that people might think the real me is worth something...

_________________________
Give sorrow words: the grief that does not speak
Whispers the o'er-fraught heart and bids it break.

-William Shakespeare, Macbeth, Act IV, Sc. III

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#211882 - 03/20/08 01:22 PM Re: self worth [Re: dgoods]
Freedom49 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 2723
Loc: Washington State
I can relate to that dgoods. I am used to dealing wtih rejection and indifference. To have someone actually make the effort to get past the "dog and pony show" scares me. I don't know what to do with that. With compliments, warm non sexual hugs, admiration, etc. I get real awkward and start funbling with words and just want to run. I realize now what is going on and hate doing that and feeling that and it just adds to the uncomfortablness of the situation. Sigh.


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#211907 - 03/20/08 04:19 PM Re: self worth [Re: Freedom49]
ineffable Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/08
Posts: 1371
Loc: state of holeecrapdood
I think you were on the verge of answering your own questions in the post you made this morning Jarrad

Craig

_________________________
:: "Anyone who can handle a needle convincingly can make us see a thread which is not there" ::


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#211911 - 03/20/08 04:30 PM Re: self worth [Re: ineffable]
simonsurvives Offline
Guest

Registered: 03/17/08
Posts: 58
Loc: California, Fresno
I noticed in your post you said "i hate doing that and feeling that" don't beat yourself. It is ok to feel what you feel. If you accept it and then understand the feelings and distortions you can change the thoughts and eventually the feelings. Hope you get through this. We are here.
Simon


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#211925 - 03/20/08 06:00 PM Re: self worth [Re: simonsurvives]
SuperTramp7981 Offline
Guest

Registered: 03/06/08
Posts: 99
Loc: Massachusetts
My self worth is in my head completely. Am I happy? Am I enjoying the one life I have? Am I satisfied with my situation? Screw what other people think/say about me. I got over that basically in 9th grade when I realized I wasn't ever going to be the "same" as everyone else.



Edited by SuperTramp7981 (03/20/08 06:00 PM)
_________________________
Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery;
None but ourselves can free our minds.
Have no fear for atomic energy,
'Cause none of them can stop the time.
How long shall they kill our prophets,
While we stand aside and look? Ooh!
Some say it's just a part of it:
We've got to fulfil de book.

Chat Name-Lparsons

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#211934 - 03/20/08 06:50 PM Re: self worth [Re: Jarrad]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Jarrad,

Originally Posted By: Jarrad
i can confrom to pretty much anything people need. i picked up these skills from abuse, but i dont know if its a bad thing. but i do it so often i have no idea what is my authentic self. so i can sit on the boards here and post about wahtever and i get brownie points for using the quailities that were discussed before. and everyone says "good job jarrad." but do i mean it, or am i just playing you all? am i doing it just because i want to be preceived in another way, or do i really mean it.


You're basically coming to terms here with the difference between manipulating the world to get what you need and want, and standing by values and ideals because you believe in them. The first perspective is the one you need on the street: you know you don't count, so fuck it. You do whatever you need to do in order to survive. The second perspective, however, is that of a guy who is beginning to sense that he IS worthwhile just as himself and amounts to something more than superficial things like his good looks, his fit body, and his flash job.

At the end of the day, bro, any asshole can look good and have a great job - but he's still an asshole and not worth knowing or caring about.

You wonder what there is to Jarrad that's worth caring about. Got a few hours? \:D But here are a few things I can say though I have never met you:

1. Your problems/answers focus. You don't want to beat around the bush. You want to get down to genuine problems.

2. Your courage. You aren't afraid to take risks, once you see they are worth taking.

3. Your practical outlook. You're interested in how ideas can (or can't) work in the real world. You hate bullshit. \:\)

4. Your sense of humor. Here's an hour in itself!

5. Your willingness to need people you trust. You're a very social animal, in a very positive sense.

6. Your honesty. You call it as you see it.

7. Your integrity. After what you have been through you ought to be a total wreck ethically. But you have a sense of values that serves you well.

And so on.

How do you know you're not just faking it? For one thing, just the fact that you ask that question shows you are keeping it real. And superficiality is one of the easiest facades to see through. Has anyone ever accused you of that?

But your question is one that, in some way or another, many survivors ask. There's a good reason for that. As we shed all the false ideas and lies that abusers taught us, that feels pretty good! Hey, I wasn't worthless, I wasn't to blame, and so forth. But after a point we look and we see that while we have been clearing away the garbage, we haven't yet been replacing it with anything. We don't know who we are, in a way.

All that will come, Jarrad. The important thing is to keep working on things and keep moving forward, even though no one can guarantee you any specific results or show you an action plan with a fixed end-date. At the end of the day we just have to remember that we're worth it.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#211993 - 03/20/08 10:48 PM Re: self worth [Re: roadrunner]
mogigo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 1331
Loc: Colorado
Quote:
4. Your sense of humor. Here's an hour in itself!



I teased you last night in chat Jarrad, I knew I could do that with you. I never would have even considered doing that with another person here. I've known many of the guys here for a long time but with you it was a given that I would get a smile and a laugh.

Humour means so very much to me Jarrad, just one little thing that makes you so very special in my eyes.

Thank you
Love you
Mike

_________________________
Thriving

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#212038 - 03/21/08 01:36 AM Re: self worth [Re: mogigo]
ericc Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/04/08
Posts: 1962
Quote:
...you may have gotten into the habit of being what you think the "crowd" or ppl your with want you to be. It definately helped you in many situations to be successuful in whatever was required of you at the moment. The trouble is that once we get into pattern of being that way it is very hard to find and return to our "Center" of who we really are or want to be.


I was like that all through high school I think (and maybe some after that as well). I seemed to behave to the group norms whatever they were for any given situation or environment. But in looking back, the happiest memories I had is when I was genuinely connecting with others in an open and honest, non-destructive fashion. I have done a lot of soul searching these last few years (maybe even since 1991 since I remembered, though it was full of confusion and chaos at first). But I am now much more at a place where I know what I value and believe and have enough self-respect that I can hold true to those things. It is very much a good thing. I am not perfect, but I am much more true to myself than I have been in the past. Funny thing is, I had a lot of these values I hold dear even at a young age. Funny how that stuff can get corrupted by all the garbage life throws at one's self.


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#212100 - 03/21/08 10:13 AM Re: self worth [Re: ericc]
Jarrad Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/06
Posts: 1071
Loc: arizona
"How do you know you're not just faking it? For one thing, just the fact that you ask that question shows you are keeping it real. And superficiality is one of the easiest facades to see through. Has anyone ever accused you of that?"

accused me of being superfical? actually no ironically enough. i think guys i ususally hang with, dont care or are superfical too. and plus, i dont really talk about this stuff in the general population so im not about to say "oh i think im pretty and that's all that matters." haha. maybe being superfical is expected. its all about perception. even at my job now. i still get paid to screw people. and as harsh as it is, guys who appear put together and are cute go farther. particularly in my line of work. but thats a tangent.

superficial. i think that on some levels i am. obviously if i am even posting about this topic that i would have to be. but i think that it's just a ploy to get people to like me. yes, i realize that people shouldnt care what people look like. but in a room of people, eyes always go to the person who is wearing the best clothes. who is cute. who is confident. that gets people to approach you.after that, all the other stuff that makes up self worth comes into play. but how it's packaged is really important in this society. (even if you dont want to belive it.)

but larry, i actually really appreciate that list. its so weird to hear someone elses de>

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#212281 - 03/22/08 01:10 PM Re: self worth [Re: Jarrad]
jcf1957 Offline
Guest

Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 192
Loc: North Of The 49th Parallel
Hi Jarrad;
I believe "Self Worth" is something we all have to learn.
It certainly has been one of my biggest stumbling blocks in life.
I too appreciate Larry's list. It's helped me look a things differently. The Following words have also helped me.

SELF WORTH - ("Ego- Strength Verses True Self Worth")

By Robert Burney

"As long as we look outside of Self - with a capital S - to find out who we are, to define ourselves and give us self-worth, we are setting ourselves up to be victims.

We were taught to look outside of ourselves - to people, places, and things; to money, property, and prestige - for fulfillment and happiness. It does not work, it is dysfunctional. We cannot fill the hole within with anything outside of Self.

You can get all the money, property, and prestige in the world, have everyone in the world adore you, but if you are not at peace within, if you don't Love and accept yourself, none of it will work to make you Truly happy.

When we look outside for self-definition and self-worth, we are giving power away and setting ourselves up to be victims. We are trained to be victims. We are taught to give our power away."

"As was stated earlier, Codependence could more accurately be called outer or external dependence. Outside influences (people, places, and things; money, property, and prestige) or external manifestations (looks, talent, intelligence) can not fill the hole within. They can distract us and make us feel better temporarily but they cannot address the core issue - they cannot fulfill us Spiritually. They can give us ego-strength but they cannot give us self-worth." - (all quotes in this color are from Codependence: The Dance of Wounded Souls)

Spiritual Teacher and Codependency Therapist Robert Burney, whose work has been compared to John Bradshaw's "except much more spiritual" and described as "taking inner child healing to a new level," has developed a unique approach to emotional healing that is the next level of recovery from codependency so many people have been seeking. He has pioneered an inner child healing paradigm that offers a powerful, life changing formula for integrating Love, Spiritual Truth, and intellectual knowledge of healthy behavior into one's emotional experience of life - a blueprint for individuals to transform their core relationship with self and life.

Robert, whose work is firmly grounded on twelve step spiritual principles and emotional energy release / grief process therapy, learned in his own personal recovery that developing internal boundaries was the key to empowerment and freedom from the past. His unique approach and application of the concept of internal boundaries, coupled with a Loving spiritual belief system, make the work innovative and powerfully life changing.

In his book Codependence: The Dance of Wounded Souls "A Cosmic Perspective on Codependence and the Human Condition" he postulates that Codependence (i.e. outer or external dependence) is The Human Condition - and that we have now entered a new Age of Healing and Joy in which it is possible to heal the planet through healing our relationships with self. He combines Twelve Step Recovery Principles, Metaphysical Truth, and Native American Spirituality with quantum physics and molecular biology in presenting his belief that we are all connected, we are all extensions of the Divine, and that ultimately Love is our True essence. His personal Spiritual beliefs - which embrace both a the Almighty God or Christ Consciousness and cosmic Energy - is that we are Spiritual Beings having a human experience that is unfolding perfectly from a Cosmic perspective. He considers spirituality to be a word that describes one's relationship with life - and anyone, regardless of religious/spiritual belief or lack of it (who is not completely closed minded), can apply the approach he shares in his book to help them transform their experience of life into an easier, more Loving and enjoyable journey.



Edited by jcf1957 (03/22/08 01:13 PM)
_________________________
No affliction nor temptation, no guilt nor power of sin, no wounded spirit nor terrified conscious should induce us to despair comfort from God.

Today well lived...makes every tomorrow a vision of Hope.
Anonymous

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#212285 - 03/22/08 01:53 PM Re: self worth [Re: jcf1957]
Jarrad Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/06
Posts: 1071
Loc: arizona
thanks jcf very informative and interesting.


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