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#208840 - 03/04/08 02:59 PM Re: Intimacy Issues with Wife [Re: Liv2124]
LJA Offline
Guest

Registered: 02/05/08
Posts: 35
Hi everyone,

Isn't this site great! If you had of told me a few years ago that I'd be talking to a group of people I dont know about sex (or lack of) in my marriage i'd have thought you were a nutter! If you'd have told me that MANY other people were having the same type of problems as me I would have peed my pants with relief!

Thanks to everyone for having the courage to share... so we can all heal. And I really believe we can all heal.

Liv, your comments and questions are very interesting. I think I had started out on this site using the word intimacy to mean emotional intimacy, not physical intimacy and then I learned to be more specific because so many others here read intimacy=sex.

I am totally with you on the sex issue, as far as not wanting it if it isn't a positive experience for my H. What I'm looking for is a physical expression of the deep love I feel for him. If he is feeling pressured or not enjoying himself in anyway, it isn't us sharing our love, it's him 'getting through it' and I don't want that. I want the experience to leave us both feeling closer, loved and satisfied.

Hope this post isn't going to derail your question, coz I think its a good one,

LJA


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#208909 - 03/05/08 12:40 AM Re: Intimacy Issues with Wife [Re: Liv2124]
grover Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/28/07
Posts: 50
Loc: Tennessee
"Since so many of you refer to sex and intimacy as interchangable and basically the same thing, how many of you are actually "there" during the intimacy?"

Honestly, it depends upon how "there" she is. If she's there for the duration, then I am too. Half the time though, I feel like I am just there to fulfill a need for her, which makes me feel abused all over again.

_________________________
Shocking revelations, we are all deeply effected.
-the Waitresses "Wise up"

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#208914 - 03/05/08 02:06 AM Re: Intimacy Issues with Wife [Re: grover]
Freedom49 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 2723
Loc: Washington State
My wife and I have talked about this and I am trying harder to be There for intimacy and for sex. Now that I undserstand what is going on I can watch for it and we can work on it together.


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#209390 - 03/07/08 08:51 PM Re: Intimacy Issues with Wife [Re: Freedom49]
Liv2124 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/06
Posts: 159
Loc: New Jersey
Hello everyone...
Grover touched on exactly what I was feeling. His response made ALOT of sense. I've known my SO for a LONG time. Before I knew about the csa, when he pulled back from sex, I was okay with it because my belief has always been "No" means "No". It doesn't matter what the reason is. But after "knowing", I would never push the issue for the mere fact of not WANTING him to feel as though he was being forced into anything. I love him too much and too deeply to do that.
My SO has had several encounters with men. We aren't married,(although there was a time when he had asked me, story for another day...) but his sexually has been an ever-changing event over the past 28 years. I didn't learn about it until after I was told about the csa and it didn't impress me all that much. But he dissociates. He wsn't "with" these men on any kind of an emotional level. It really didn't affect our relationship at all. From what he's shared with me, which is quite alot, he hasn't gotten what he's been looking for. He's felt nothing.
I guess my question came from the fact that I find intimacy and sex to be very different things, despite what I read here. I guess what I believe is that you can experience intimacy without sex and sex without intimacy. But if I had to make a choice, at this point in my life, I'd take intimacy without the sex, if I had to.

Liv



Edited by Liv2124 (03/07/08 08:52 PM)

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#209431 - 03/08/08 12:25 AM Re: Intimacy Issues with Wife [Re: Liv2124]
spirit of winter Offline
New Here

Registered: 02/08/08
Posts: 19
Loc: Weaver Alabama
I have had similar problems with my wife. I was never there, so to speak it was something to get through, something to satisfy another person, so sex never meant anything to me. (led to a lot of your cheating arguments) If Im honest masturbation meant more than sex with anyone, man or woman.

So for 11 years of marriage and dating, I havent enjoyed any sexual intimacy with my wife. But every now and then I did experience intimacy with her in nonsexual loving ways.

My wife told me she was afraid to touch me after I told her, and that hurt me deeply. We talked it out and what she meant was that I no longer knew what was comfortable for me, what my sexual boundaries were. Everything changed for me overnight, things I liked in the bedroom had become uncomfortable and/or triggers for me, and through her experience she understood what I was about to go through, after accepting and telling what had been done to me.

Unfortunately for my wife, she was raped by her father at 13. However, she told her mother (happened on visitations) and mom forced her into counseling and she got help she didnt want (rebellious teen and all). But later the things she learned made sense and though she still has problems she has insight and wisdom that does help me. Likewise the more I learn about myself, the more I understand things she says and feels. And as sad as it is to say, that for me is very intimate.

One thing we agreed on is, if one of us doesnt feel there or feels any anxiety, depression, insecurity, freaked out or any negative emotion; we would not initiate sex with one another. But instead we have found ourselves laying there, talking long onto the night, cuddled together with one or both of us crying (which is still hard for me to do in front of her and is also a trigger; still dont understand). And this closeness means more to me emotionally than any amount of sex, although I am learning what true sex between two loving, people is really about.

Instead of concentrating on getting her satisfied, I try to concentrate on every sensation her love sends my way. I try in my mind to feel the love in her touch, her kiss, in all of it. But I also try to feel my love for her in my every action. I dont ever again want to touch her in those ways without love Leading me and Allowing myself to feel her love. In a way, love has set me free. Its not perfect but its the only thing I know to do. And so far, for me, it has worked.

Intimacy, I am learning, as Liv pointed out is a separate thing. But I still have intimacy issues non-sexually. I cant get close to anyone in an intimate way without expecting it to lead to sex and is probably the biggest reason I have no friends: too close, opps bye bye. I am afraid of touching anyone for the same reason, and especially afraid of men touching me (Im talking pat on the back, hand on shoulder, etc. innocent stuff all those other guys take for granted), because in my mind that is intimate and must lead to sex. I know this is wrong, but it has been hammered in for 30 years.

As far as acting out with men, Ive been there too and almost ruined the best thing I have ever had: my wife. Please dont blame yourself or feel guilty; damn hard to do. But I say this because I have come to an understanding. I did it hunting for something I could not find emotionally, physically, mentally, with women or with other men. When I started the road to loving myself I found what I had been hunting for my whole life: Self-Acceptance. What I was hunting for in the acting out had to come from within. When I accepted that the worst parts of me, the abused person within, deserved my own love as much as my wife and kids did, my acting out stopped and my life started improving. Although penis envy is a great problem still, I dont act on it anymore.

And a lot of this is different for everyone, and I am new to all this myself. I can only hope this helps someone the way this site has helped me these hard past three months. And maybe my perception is still wrong? Thats why I am here to learn and I hope to help someone else.

Sorry for the long windedness, the only true expression I have is in writing, so I apologize for the length. Take care.

_________________________
I want to be me. I want to be whole. I want to be the loving person me and my wife and family deserve. Mostly I want to feel like I deserve to live without fear of people, of who I am, of intimacy, and without fear of a past I canít change.

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#209523 - 03/08/08 09:56 AM Re: Intimacy Issues with Wife [Re: spirit of winter]
Liv2124 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/06
Posts: 159
Loc: New Jersey
Spirit of Winter,
Very well put...and since communication here is a constant issue, long-winded is always appreciated.
One of the hardest things we've had to work through, still, are boundaries. I often will avoid touching him, even casually, and if he doesn't see it coming, he'll still jump 20 feet in the air. This is true even if I "lose my head" for a second and touch his arm while he's in line at the store to tell him I'll meet him at the car. It's a cycle...He jumps, he gets mad at me because I made it happen, I get mad at myself because I should've known not to do it, and by the time we get home, I'm getting mad at him because he's making a huge issue out of it. Most of the time, I'm conscious enough not to do it, but I sometimes forget. Not often, but sometimes. Yet, he can touch me in a casual way whenever he feels like it. The "rules" do not apply in this direction. Also, what's "okay" one minute, may not be "okay" the next. I try to keep up, but it's hard.
The funny thing is, (and I don't mean funny "ha-ha"), when I stick to the rules and don't make a "mistake", he'll get just as mad. Because over the years, he's used my mistakes as his excuse to pull away, and he can justify to himself and me, that it was my mistake and my fault. It's confusing to some of my other close friends, and I have a hard time coming up with alternate reasons for it. My other close friends do not know about the csa, it's not something I would share with anyone. Even when I started coming to this site, I felt unsure about posting, because I didn't want to betray his confidence in any way. I needed to talk about it, not only about what it's doing to him, but what it's doing to me.


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#209587 - 03/08/08 02:10 PM Re: Intimacy Issues with Wife [Re: Liv2124]
LJA Offline
Guest

Registered: 02/05/08
Posts: 35
Hi Spirit of Winter,

I am so sorry for what you and your wife have been through. I can't even imagine the added difficulties that must exist if both partners are survivors.
Thank you for the very insightful post. I think you have a lot of wisdom to share.

Your de>

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#209595 - 03/08/08 03:34 PM Re: Intimacy Issues with Wife [Re: LJA]
spirit of winter Offline
New Here

Registered: 02/08/08
Posts: 19
Loc: Weaver Alabama
Ladies i want to thank you for the love and support you have for your SO. for 11 years i have been in denial and a very angry bastard, i know this and i can't deny or correct it. But my wifes love is the one beacon i have ever had. why she stayed with me i will never understand. and as of Jan 08, i started deserving her love and not being that other person. as a result neither of us really knows who i am. I am learning daily, and she is almost back to a dating stage, learning about the operson she loves. We have had our fights and even split once, nearly divorced. But somehow, for some reason, she still loves me through all my faults and problems, and i am grateful beyond words, or as it is tears. So ladies hang in there and i am glad you are here, i wish my wife was more invovled in my recovery as you are, but for now her love and support will see me through.

And i understand the touch thing although mine is situational. I have the same problem being touched when i am sleeping. And everyone is different, and that can be its own problem in getting advice/help. And i'm afraid i have none to offer in this area, we just avoid that situation.

But i admire and praise you both for your love and support of the one you love, don't give up on them, somewhere it has to get better.

_________________________
I want to be me. I want to be whole. I want to be the loving person me and my wife and family deserve. Mostly I want to feel like I deserve to live without fear of people, of who I am, of intimacy, and without fear of a past I canít change.

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