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#207369 - 02/25/08 06:48 PM looked way back to see if this had been posted on
ineffable Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/08
Posts: 1371
Loc: state of holeecrapdood
deep breath... & maybe another one... ok... here goes

Has anybody else ever become "infatuated" with another member here?
How did you deal with it ?
(If you are uncomfortable posting, please feel free to PM me)


Before you all go "holy crap I chatted with this guy is it me?"
I have disclosed my feelings to said "infatuee" & am letting the chips fall where they may

Am I lonely?
Hell yeah
Are my emotions misplaced & some may even say "inappropriate"
Quite possibly so

Do I feel foolish?
No

It's been a long time since I have felt anything remotely resembling "infatuation" or GULP "love" towards anyone
Luckily my "object" is a strong folkr (partly why I was drawn)
I NEED to deal upfront with ALL of my feelings here
misguided though they may be

Need some dialogue/feedback on this

Craig





Edited by ineffable (02/25/08 07:16 PM)
_________________________
:: "Anyone who can handle a needle convincingly can make us see a thread which is not there" ::


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#207381 - 02/25/08 07:14 PM Re: looked way back to see if this had been posted on [Re: ineffable]
Freedom49 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 2723
Loc: Washington State
Craig,
I cannot fathom this NOT happening before. We deal with raw emotions here and are more open online than we ever would be in person. That said it is entirely possible you have seen something in a person here that you are attracted to. There are many guys on here that I think are really terrific people and I have closed more that one post with Love you, or some variation thereof. Some of the guys here have really been wonderful to me. I think if I were lonely and available that could very possibly be a something I would have to be careful of.
I would be cautious though with emotions flying all over the map on this site and take it pretty slow. All of us on here have been trough a lot and carry a lot of baggage which you well know from reading our stories. I would not discount that romance would bloom under the right circumstances but I would definately take it really slow and spend a year or so getting to know who ever it is really well first before making major decisions.
Definately check with a moderator too and maybe your T and Ken Singer here on the site.
Still I wish you the all the best as you deserve it.



Edited by Freedom49 (02/25/08 07:16 PM)

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#207383 - 02/25/08 07:23 PM Re: looked way back to see if this had been posted [Re: Freedom49]
ineffable Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/08
Posts: 1371
Loc: state of holeecrapdood
Thanks Roger I really appreciate that
I was a little nervous posting this topic
I looked all the way back to 2005 & found nothing
I am reading Victims No Longer right now
Chapter on Sex, Trust & Caring
I know my boundaries are really messed up in this area
Trying to make some sense & get things clearer in my head
The heart is another matter tho
I am seeing my T a week today
This will be the first thing I talk about




_________________________
:: "Anyone who can handle a needle convincingly can make us see a thread which is not there" ::


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#207385 - 02/25/08 07:27 PM Re: looked way back to see if this had been posted [Re: ineffable]
Freedom49 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 2723
Loc: Washington State
Yes Craig, the heart is definately another matter. It can help heal or it can complicate the recovery process with a lot of interpersonal issues. Trust your gut.


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#207393 - 02/25/08 08:06 PM Re: looked way back to see if this had been posted [Re: Freedom49]
Trish4850 Offline
BoD Liaison Emeritus
MaleSurvivor<

Registered: 10/15/05
Posts: 3280
Loc: New Jersey
Craig,

Posting this was very brave! Iíve been here for over two years and never seen the subject directly addressed. Itís been dealt with in other posts, Iím sure, but Iíve never seen it met head on in public discussion.

First off, Iím glad you donít feel foolish - you shouldnít. Finally meeting others who know exactly how your feeling is very powerful and can lead to such a sense of relief. That said though, I think this place can be a lot like rehab. Romances, for lack of a better word, can start even though itís the last thing in the world that either party really needs. Almost everyone here has boundary issues and learning where those boundaries are and the right way to protect them is part of what happens here. Getting involved with someone from the site can be a very dangerous prospect.

Youíre very new here Craig and I donít know if youíve ever read the Discussion Board Guidelines, if you havenít, this is what in says, in part:

Quote:
MS believes that persons newly arrived here are often vulnerable to acting out or being occasionally targeted.

We have gone to great effort to monitor this site and to provide an environment which will welcome survivors, many of whom have serious trust issues. While we can not guarantee complete safety here, we strongly recommend that you do not give out personal information or involve yourself with anyone you meet here by going off site, until you have gotten to know them for at least three months based on communications on site. It is not appropriate to invite new persons to converse off site since we have no way to monitor off site activity. It is equally not appropriate to bring off site issues between persons to this board.

While we can't control anyone's off-site activities, it is our policy to discourage it and to urge anyone beginning such communication to proceed with caution. We want each of you to be safe and to use the site in the best way possible for your recovery.

We strongly recommend that you:

* Do not give your true legal name out to anyone who asks for it.
* Do not give out your personal email address to anyone here.
* Do not give anyone your home address, phone number or even the city you live in.
* Some well-meaning person may ask you to email him your picture. We ask that you do not do that.

Iím not chastising you Craig. As I said when I started this post, I think youíre very brave to post what youíre feeling and I believe some really good dialog will be opened because of it. Just remember, your safety and well being is important and I would hate to see you get in over your head or let your new found emotions force you into making a mistake that would hurt you or someone else.

ROCK ON..........Trish

_________________________
If you fall down 10 times, Stand up 11.

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#207405 - 02/25/08 08:23 PM Re: looked way back to see if this had been posted [Re: Trish4850]
ineffable Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/08
Posts: 1371
Loc: state of holeecrapdood
Trish you rock!
Rehab romance aint fer me
Thoughts of Amy Winehouse came to mind... no no no
There is no chance of my getting physically involved with anyone from this site
I have read the guidelines & they have been followed
My "fixation" has been nothing but a gentleman
The only things that have been in any danger are my fragile feelings, my illusions, my ego & my pride
I am here to work
I am not going to shy away from ANYTHING
Want to get the frig on with my life
I really felt the care in your words Trish
Thanks!





Edited by ineffable (02/25/08 08:35 PM)
_________________________
:: "Anyone who can handle a needle convincingly can make us see a thread which is not there" ::


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#207417 - 02/25/08 09:11 PM Re: looked way back to see if this had been posted [Re: ineffable]
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16264
Craig,

I agree with Trish in that this is a very courageous way of dealing with the issue you raise. She and Roger said most of the things I would have so I don't think there's any reason to continue repeating. I will say that this kind of honesty in a place such as this can bring about some real personal growth for yourself and can also bring about a very positive discussion resulting in other's facing things they may not otherwise have been willing to face.

To answer your original question I'll say "Yes, it has happened here before on the rare occasion." Unfortunately the cases we as moderator's hear about are usually the ones that turn out negatively in some way, which is the basis for the cautions Trish posted.

I admire your willingness to be introspective on this topic. Most of the time when an individual finds him/herself thusly enmeshed he/she is incapable of rational thought. You seem to have a leg up on that, Friend. Keep doing the hard and honest work.

Lots of love,

John

_________________________
ďLifeís journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ĎHoly ____Ö! What a ride!íĒ ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#207422 - 02/25/08 09:33 PM Re: looked way back to see if this had been posted on [Re: ineffable]
Lazarus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/01/07
Posts: 851
Loc: Below the radar, USA

Craig, all I can advise is that you keep it real, ya know? It's not surprising that infatuations happen all the time, so you just have to look after you own safely. Don't go falling off the deep end for someone you really don't know.

Just my two cents's worth. Luv ya lots!

Laz





Edited by Lazarus (02/26/08 06:48 AM)
_________________________
"That which does not kill us, surely makes us stonger." - Neitsche

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#207426 - 02/25/08 09:49 PM Re: looked way back to see if this had been posted [Re: Lazarus]
ineffable Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/08
Posts: 1371
Loc: state of holeecrapdood
I had that coming

_________________________
:: "Anyone who can handle a needle convincingly can make us see a thread which is not there" ::


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#207441 - 02/25/08 10:54 PM Re: looked way back to see if this had been posted [Re: ineffable]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
ineffable,

Like others above I found this a really brave and honest approach to a difficult topic. Yes, it does sometimes happen, and I can easily see why. A survivor comes here feeling worthless and unlovable and suddenly he's surrounded by people genuinely concerned for him and anxious to help. His emotional reaction could become quite intense and very quickly.

You are handling it in exactly the right way, I think. You are talking about it and trying to get a handle on it to see the extent to which this is a survivor issue. To an extent it almost certainly is. But hey, sometimes two people click, right?

For the site, the kind of overarching problem is that many guys come here with poor boundaries and extremely vulnerable. It's easy for such brothers to get carried away into areas they really don't want to get into, and then feel revictimized afterwards.

So sure, it's a real thing, a powerful emotion, and something worth talking about here. Thanks for getting the discussion started.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#207448 - 02/25/08 11:15 PM Re: looked way back to see if this had been posted [Re: roadrunner]
markgreyblue Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/19/03
Posts: 5400
Loc: Pasadena, CA
well said Larry.

_________________________
"...do not look outside yourself for the leader."
-wisdom of the hopi elders

"...the sign of a true leader is service..." - anonymous



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#207454 - 02/26/08 12:33 AM Re: looked way back to see if this had been posted [Re: markgreyblue]
AndyJB2005 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 1242
Loc: Saint Paul, Minnesota
I thought I was really close to someone on here, too, even infatuated and/or "in love." Then they dumped me -- twice. Stupid me went back the first time after he apologized profusely -- I don't know why I believed him. I should've left it at that and not played his game. But I guess I was lonely...and thought I had feelings for him.

When you guys brought up rehab romances I nodded vigorously -- I couldn't think of a better way to say that until then. I guess that's my responsibility in the whole mess. I guess I had my share of acting out in the relationship, and maybe it wasn't, like someone said, what we really needed.

I just hope I can get over the feelings sooner than the first time I was dumped. At least this time I know where I stand, and am more prepared.

The biggest hurt is the lie ("computer problems," "busy at work")...and how he thinks I'm stupid. The first time I held on to hope that he would come back -- and that made it more difficult I think. No more.

So I guess to answer your question, I didn't handle it well, and it crashed and burned. I can tell you about the aftermath though, if you want. *shrug* But I would be careful about falling in love with another on this site. We're so unpredictable, us survivors.



_________________________
Life's disappointments are harder to take when you don't know any swear words. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)

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#207463 - 02/26/08 01:56 AM Re: looked way back to see if this had been posted [Re: AndyJB2005]
AndyJB2005 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 1242
Loc: Saint Paul, Minnesota
Didn't mean to hijack if I did. \:\(

_________________________
Life's disappointments are harder to take when you don't know any swear words. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)

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#207476 - 02/26/08 06:02 AM Re: looked way back to see if this had been posted [Re: roadrunner]
brian-z Offline
Member

Registered: 07/11/02
Posts: 770
Loc: Western USA
Craig, in the 3(or so) years I was active here I've seen countless situations likes this. It won't work out, but it's not the end of the world either. There is no pat answer on how to handle it, you and the other person need to work this out in for your selves. The fact that you see it can be a problem means you are on the right track.

But I have to tell you even though there might be some short term drama, in the bigger picture, it's not THAT bad. Talk to your friends, reach out when you need to and take it one day at a time.


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#207489 - 02/26/08 07:54 AM Re: looked way back to see if this had been posted [Re: brian-z]
Trish4850 Offline
BoD Liaison Emeritus
MaleSurvivor<

Registered: 10/15/05
Posts: 3280
Loc: New Jersey
Hi Andy,

You didnít hijack at all. You honestly said what happened to you in exactly the situation Craig is talking about. I donít know who the other guy youíre talking about is and I donít need to know, all I see is that you got hurt because you wound up in a situation that is very difficult to avoid. You found acceptance and understanding and mistook it for love. That happens in every day life all the time. Here, with such intense emotions flying all over the place at any given moment, it probably happens even more. Iím not going to play devilís advocate and defend or denigrate the other guy, Iím just going to say that I hope you do get over the bad feelings and continue the work that brought you here in the first place. Youíve already showed a strength that you may not have been aware of by facing what happened and remaining here rather than running away. You deserve a lot of credit for that.

ROCK ON........Trish

_________________________
If you fall down 10 times, Stand up 11.

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#207526 - 02/26/08 11:10 AM Re: looked way back to see if this had been posted [Re: Trish4850]
AndyJB2005 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 1242
Loc: Saint Paul, Minnesota
Thanks Trish. \:\)

I guess a big hurt, too, is that I have very big abandonment issues because of my history. I'm not yet used to getting close to people, and perhaps the online version was a bit easier for me. But then it broke off with this guy and all that stuff came back to me (both times) -- and I feel like that little kid again standing by the phone, waiting for his dad to call, wondering what happened, wondering why he doesn't talk to me, wondering what I did and if he even loves me.

I must say that at least this time I am not blaming myself as much.

I've run away from a lot of stuff in my life, and I can't do it again. So here I stay.

I hope this relationship is better. \:\) Not trying to sabotage it, just be careful to keep your emotions in check, I'd say. \:\)

_________________________
Life's disappointments are harder to take when you don't know any swear words. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)

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#207535 - 02/26/08 12:09 PM Re: looked way back to see if this had been posted [Re: AndyJB2005]
ineffable Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/08
Posts: 1371
Loc: state of holeecrapdood
Whoa
All this talk of bravery makes me want to paint my face blue & break out the family kilt
Andy you are free to join me cuz you are the braver man in my opinion

Thank you EVERYONE
So much wisdom & support & insight & gulp... love?
I am humbled & grateful to be in such company as I am here at MS

Looking back at what I previously posted I need to say something
I was insensitive when I said the only thing that was in danger was ME ME ME
I forgot someone elses feelings WERE involved

For that I am truly sorry & I hope he will forgive me

I also learned something else that I will share & explain
I delete most of my PM's, even the ones I have started
I obsess over what I have written afterwards & over responses I receive
Also a bit of an inbox clean phreeque
I never knew or considered how that might be perceived by someone else until I was asked about it

If anyone has felt "invalidated" or "insignificant" ("these" are MY words) as a result
please
talk to me?

It has been a bumpy ride but I am no worse for wear
Thanks to you

Craig



_________________________
:: "Anyone who can handle a needle convincingly can make us see a thread which is not there" ::


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#207542 - 02/26/08 01:31 PM Re: looked way back to see if this had been posted [Re: ineffable]
cbfull Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/26/07
Posts: 386
Loc: Ohio
The major reason I ended up finding this place was a result of my own obsessions/infatuations, and landing in a very intense one with a coworker.

I came close to being infatuated with another member here once, and you might be able to image the mixed emotions of humiliation and relief I felt when he was found to be assuming multiple identities here and even pretending to be different people.

_________________________
Craig

Guilt and shame have never done any of us any good at all.

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#207565 - 02/26/08 03:15 PM Re: looked way back to see if this had been posted [Re: cbfull]
AndyJB2005 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 1242
Loc: Saint Paul, Minnesota
Gosh, I'm sorry that happened to you, cbfull. That must've been a shock to the system.

I can totally relate to the mixed feelings of humiliation and relief.

I'm with ya brother. \:\)

Craig: like I say to everyone who calls me brave, "It's about time I am...I wasn't brave for too long already." lol \:\)

_________________________
Life's disappointments are harder to take when you don't know any swear words. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)

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#207714 - 02/27/08 08:42 AM Re: looked way back to see if this had been posted [Re: AndyJB2005]
cbfull Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/26/07
Posts: 386
Loc: Ohio
Thanks Andy, the feelings of humiliation did not last long. The user PM'd me with a single line, "Let's talk". It was too weird, and any potential infatuation on my part went out the window at that point. I just got a feeling that something was "not good". I'm sure you remember him as it was very recent, one of his screen names was Jayson and his avatar was a motorcycle.

I'm not embarassed about the details of what attracted me to him, it was the way he talked to other guys. It reminded me of one of my "healthier" and more pleasant sexual experiences in college.

I would have to say that it's all part of a larger, more valuable learning experience that is long overdue.

Craig

BTW, since there is another "Craig" on the board, I don't mind being called CB or cbfull, but odds are we'll know which of us is being addressed.

_________________________
Craig

Guilt and shame have never done any of us any good at all.

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#207770 - 02/27/08 01:51 PM Re: looked way back to see if this had been posted [Re: cbfull]
ineffable Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/08
Posts: 1371
Loc: state of holeecrapdood
Hi Craig
I too am sorry about to hear about that
We came here with enough issues
Like yourself it was the ways they talked to others & about themselves that attracted me
I also agree that it is part of a larger learning experience

My guard is up with attack dogs & an electrified fence when I am ooot & aboot
I've been able to drop it here
I also have to be upfront & admit there have been 2 others here I question my feelings towards
maybe a better way of putting this is the direction my feelings were heading?
I am seeing my T next week & will be exploring this with him

In retrospect, as a gay man, attraction to & infatuation with other men is natural
I can accept that now
Where it gets f%*#@d up is when it becomes STUCK in obsession or is unrequited
In other words my 20's

The main thing is trust for me
Trusting my feelings
Dealing with others trusting me in light of my owning up here
Boundaries
Defensiveness
Openness
Protection
Communication
Willingness
Life is a 2 way street
But I am feeling stronger at the steering wheel

Craigineff



Edited by ineffable (02/27/08 02:28 PM)
_________________________
:: "Anyone who can handle a needle convincingly can make us see a thread which is not there" ::


Top
#207772 - 02/27/08 01:55 PM Re: looked way back to see if this had been posted [Re: ineffable]
AndyJB2005 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 1242
Loc: Saint Paul, Minnesota
Craig, I'm so glad you found us, and I'm glad MS is working well for you. I'm glad you feel comfortable enough to let your guard down. \:\) It's an honor to read your words. \:\)

Thanks for bring this topic up -- it was really something I needed OUT of me. \:\)

_________________________
Life's disappointments are harder to take when you don't know any swear words. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)

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#207775 - 02/27/08 02:09 PM Re: looked way back to see if this had been posted [Re: AndyJB2005]
ineffable Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/08
Posts: 1371
Loc: state of holeecrapdood
Andy

Everytime I see your avatar I get a big goofy grin

Have you ever heard the song: "The Future's So Bright I Gotta Wear Shades"?

Craigineff

_________________________
:: "Anyone who can handle a needle convincingly can make us see a thread which is not there" ::


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#208263 - 03/01/08 03:34 PM Re: looked way back to see if this had been posted [Re: AndyJB2005]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Andy,

I think you bring up an important point:

Originally Posted By: AndyJB2005
But I would be careful about falling in love with another on this site. We're so unpredictable, us survivors.


I think we all know that managing any kind of engagement with another person requires emotional resources and strength. Even just a casual friendship with the guy down the street, or a pal at the gym, can be trying at times.

The anonymity of the Internet encourages us to say more about ourselves here, and the more we reveal and the more we engage with someone the more risk there is. Of course that risk can pay off. Reaching out to each other can be a very healing and encouraging experience. I know that so many of the gains I made in real life were things I tried out here first and gained enough confidence to convince myself they would work in "the real world" too.

I think the key question here is boundaries. How far can you go with someone here and still maintain a safe relationship? Most of us have never met and don't even know where the other guy lives, or even if he really is who he says he is. To what extent should we get our own life entangled in that of someone else, when the other person is also struggling with recovery issues? How far can we "be there" for someone else when we ourselves often feel so lost? Is our feeling of closeness coming from a genuine engagement with the other person, or could it be that we are just so accustomed to feeling bad and alone that any relief seems to be incredibly special? How will we feel if a close friend just suddenly disappears from the site, for whatever good reasons of his own?

We will all answer these questions differently, but it's vital to bear in mind that our first priority should be our own recovery. Reaching out to others is important to both sides and of course it's what makes us a community. But it's vital to have in mind our own needs and concerns and to make sure we aren't taking risks that could cause us a lot of harm.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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