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#20574 - 11/14/02 11:20 AM Coaches too!
The Dean Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 2080
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
More reasons for us to be strong advocates for safety for the kids.
http://www.basketballdraft.com/inside_game/frank_deford/news/2002/05/08/viewpoint/

Bob

_________________________
If we do not live what we believe, then we will begin to believe what we live.

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#20575 - 11/14/02 11:38 PM Re: Coaches too!
Richard Gartner, PhD Offline
Past President
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/20/00
Posts: 404
Loc: New York, NY, USA
There was a Sports Illustrated cover story in 1999 about coach abuse. The cover was stunning -- about 10 photos of coaches who had been convicted of molesting their boy athletes. I was amazed at how well SI covered the story.

_________________________
www.richardgartner.com

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#20576 - 11/17/02 06:15 AM Re: Coaches too!
Don-NY Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/06/02
Posts: 546
Loc: Long Island, NY
To all:
I have removed every word I previously posted in this thread. This was my decision and was not suggested or recommended by anyone.

I have heard from a man who I trust, respect, and admire. I met him very briefly, and in that short moment, I knew I had touched a great spirit.

He thinks that my words were hurtful, and rather than try to change them or explain them, I have simply removed them.

I received another message which implied that I was not being supportive. I have great faith in this person's judgement and wisdom and so I accept that what I wrote can be perceived as not supportive.

However, I think that criticism and disagreement is supportive; sometimes, more supportive than ignoring or giving blanket approval.

Wuamei:
I apologize for any hurt or harm I caused you. Everything I wrote was a result of the feelings your posts above created in me. I was insulted and offended. I felt dismissed and patronized. I will not try to explain why as that would risk stirring up more hurt or outright hostility.

I accept that these are MY feelings and MY problem. I admit my wounded ego and that in this case, my criticism and disagreement were not without negative, partly conscious motivation to strike back.

If you can accept this apology and forgive my weakness, I would ask one thing of you. Please remove the above post addressed to me. It still bothers me terribly. If you will do that for me, then I will know that this matter is behind us.

Donald

_________________________
If you understand everything, some things are just as they are. If you understand nothing, things are still just as they are.

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#20577 - 11/17/02 10:38 AM Re: Coaches too!
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Don:

I could pretty much echo the words of your entire post back to you as my response to you.

I have also removed all my posts in this thread of my own volition, also after talking with & receiving insight, from a couple of men whom I have a great deal of respect for.

Don, I just read the last post you deleted yesterday. Honestly it was my intention to simply not respond to this, and to request consideration for both my & your posts here all being deleted.

Thanks for taking the initiative and deleting your own, and I'm glad to respond in kind. Thank you also for giving me this post to respond to.

Clearly your responses came out of great pain and I tried to take them in that light & not personally.

Your apology is not only gratefully accepted but welcomed!

Please accept my apologies for not being more sensitive as to your feelings about this and my lack of discernment. Please also accept my apology for any pain I caused you; believe me none was intended. In the words of one wise friend, I went "over the top" on this one.

As with you, there are some personal reasons for this but getting into them would not be profitable. And the feelings behind them are just that, MY feelings, my problem, my concern.

So Don, my posts are deleted. I consider this matter behind us, and hope we can move ahead in mutual support and recovery.

For what its worth, I deeply respect and admire the man you show yourself to be by doing this, as I'm sure given your feelings it's not easy for you. Thanks.

Take care fellow survivor

Wuame

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#20578 - 11/17/02 12:25 PM Re: Coaches too!
The Dean Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 2080
Loc: Milwaukee, WI


You men greatly inspire me! You are both very gentle men and at the same time men of passion to stop this wretched abuse of kids. The more I hear of kids being abused the more I feel fear and at time overwhelming sadness.

Someimtes I think I should stop reading the newspapers.

But that is beside the point. You are great brothers and I am proud of you and a bit in awe of how well you have handled a misunderstanding.

Now, one or the other of you need to tell me how to delete a message because when I try to delete one of my messages I am told I can't do that.

I admit to being fairly well illiterate with computer stuff.

Much love to you two men. I am proud and grateful to be your brother.

Bob

_________________________
If we do not live what we believe, then we will begin to believe what we live.

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#20579 - 11/17/02 07:29 PM Re: Coaches too!
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5779
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
Donald and Vic:
I am greatly relieved that the two of you are wonderful role models for understanding and compassion. I felt badly for the past couple of days that two men whom I respect very much, were in a destructive war of words.

Both of you are valuable members of this discussion forum and what you have to say to others is very important. You both show leadership and understanding, as well as maturity that is (or should be) inspirational to others.

I can rest easier tonight knowing that each of you is/are (pardon my grammar) at peace.

Thank you.
Ken


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#20580 - 11/17/02 08:07 PM Re: Coaches too!
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Bob:

Thank you! I'm glad for how well things have worked out. After all, as you say, we have common goals as male survivors: to survive, to support, to thrive, and to see an end to sexual abuse.

Bob, I read the newspapers and watch or listen to the news very selectively. My wife is a news hound, so I let her tell me things, as she "edits" them for me. However I know I need to keep informed about what's going on, especially things related to sexual abuse. Can't be an advocate with my head in the sand!... \:o

Speaking of editing, to delete a post, click your icon for edit/delete at the top of the post. At the top left above your space to edit should be a box saying something like "check to delete message." Check the space, click edit, and hopefully it will work. At least mine does.

Oh, if you're being told you can't delete one of your own messages (or anyone's where you moderate for that matter), make sure you've logged in. Otherwise you're read by the system as an unregistered guest and it won't let you delete or edit posts. I think that's right anyway.

But I'm not exactly a computer whiz myself!

Bob thanks again. The love, pride & gratitude are right back atcha my brother!

Wuame

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#20581 - 11/17/02 11:41 PM Re: Coaches too!
Richard Gartner, PhD Offline
Past President
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/20/00
Posts: 404
Loc: New York, NY, USA
I, too, am very relieved and admiring that the two of you have, separately and together, re-considered what might have become a real hollering match and instead converted it into what seems to be part of your healing. My congratulations to you both. You are models for how to negotiate an escalating situation.

Richard

_________________________
www.richardgartner.com

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#20582 - 11/18/02 07:12 AM Re: Coaches too!
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Isn't this what healing is all about ?
Re-learning the ability to state your views, make your own mind up, think for yourself. AND, importantly, have the ability to respect other peoples views, however they may be different to our own.

It's probably something we didn't do as victims, we were too tied into our own extreme views and prejudices to take others opinions on board easily, and we were angry- very angry.
I know that for many years my opinions were 'always right' and I made sure everyone knew my opinions !
And didn't I get some crap back for them ?

So as we become survivors it's a big change for us to make, something I know that I have some trouble with in some areas, I can still go ape-shit at work - although I am getting a bit better.

Our histories have a lot to answer for, and for those of us that suffered into middle age ( how I hate to admit that ) before disclosing we have had many years to ingrain our old ways, and the new ones don't come easily.
But come they do, we eventually realise we are normal decent people who can think for ourselves, and if we can do that then we can also think about others in the same way.
And that's another new experience for so many of us.

Lloydy

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#20583 - 11/18/02 04:25 PM Re: Coaches too!
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Ken, Richard, Lloydy, and all of you men: Thanks to all of you! \:\)

Wuame

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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